AAC
12) University of Memphis 11,226,419
17) University of Connecticut 9,516,308
43) University of Cincinnati-Main Campus 7,421,986
53) Southern Methodist University 7,086,547
70) University of Tulsa 6,174,244
76) University of Houston 6,023,125
78) Temple University 5,920,903
92) University of South Florida-Main Campus 4,711,026
102) Tulane University of Louisiana 3,987,379
119) East Carolina University 3,187,963
120) University of Central Florida 3,166,282

MVC
56) Wichita State University 6,920,933
121) Bradley University 3,128,419
132) University of Northern Iowa 2,899,699
133) University of Evansville 2,899,667
139) Loyola University Chicago 2,745,553
153) Drake University 2,472,212
156) Illinois State University 2,452,961
171) Missouri State University-Springfield 2,279,917
175) Southern Illinois University-Carbondale 2,241,413
208) Indiana State University 1,832,975

Sounds about right, but... link?

Often take private schools expense info with a grain of salt as we don't know if they just waive those "costs" for scholarships. The coaches and travel costs are real however.

These numbers show that Wichita State really belongs in the AAC and not the MVC.

A10 wouldn't be a bad fit for Wichita either if they were open to expanding in the Midwest. They would have the #1 budget if in the A10 but not by a very big margin.

WSU has over 2x the budget of the next Valley school (Bradley).

(04-02-2017 09:05 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Sounds about right, but... link?

http://csnbbs.com/thread-813807.html

Many of those schools must be spending money very foolishly - if they're really spending that much - when you compare their recent men's basketball records to those of Illinois State.

The "budget" includes all ticket revenue and donor revenue.

Memphis isn't actually spending that much, they just have deep pockets for basketball.

(04-02-2017 09:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The "budget" includes all ticket revenue and donor revenue.

Memphis isn't actually spending that much, they just have deep pockets for basketball.

No. Revenue = revenue, not expenses or money spent. If that's what you mean, and if that's what the actual government data actually says, then you need to say "revenue" and not "budget".

It'd be interesting to see the comparisons with the Mountain West and A10.

(04-02-2017 09:41 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 09:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The "budget" includes all ticket revenue and donor revenue.

Memphis isn't actually spending that much, they just have deep pockets for basketball.

No. Revenue = revenue, not expenses or money spent. If that's what you mean, and if that's what the actual government data actually says, then you need to say "revenue" and not "budget".

Yep. Two seperate and "stats" are very misleading. I've seen some "budgets" that are BS.

Basketball budgets are a good way for me to show why the MVC may have trouble convincing another Horizon school to join without Wichita State. Notice that after Bradley, who are slightly above the budget range, 7 of the MVC schools run from $2.2-2.9m, #132-175. Also note the top 7 tHL schools run from $2.1-2.9m, #134-185. There is no difference to be had. A school gains nothing moving from one to the other. (Note, VU shows better than UIC in Basketball budgeting; Wright State shows solid again in another metric - they are intriguing, a sleeper option .. if any tHL school thinks its worth moving)


When I looked around at other conferences, looking for schools whose budget were beyond well above their conferences norm, a few stood out and were within the target range of the MVC.


Denver, Seattle, and Liberty are both well out of footprint, and no performing string enough in basketball. New Mexico State is something of a geography reach as well, and have football interests making them uncertain for sometime to come. If the Horizon schools decline, Oral Roberts and Belmont are the only options who support Basketball on the MVC level, and Belmont passed already the last time.

Does narrow the field some. And it shows the lack of compelling case for a tHL school to move to the MVC once Wichita State is gone.

^So on the court notwithstanding, MVC sweeps the budget comparison 9-0 (35 spot mean difference that extends to 41 if Valpo moves) and "a school gains nothing moving from one to the other".

Guess I shouldn't be surprised since apparently WCC>AAC and CUSA being a top 11 conference were the latest specials.

Biggest takeaway is that no program in college hoops wasted one player more than Indiana St and Larry Bird. They turned a hall of famer and title game that is the most watched college hoops game to this day into the #208 budget 35+ years later. Their investment is in-line with an Ohio Valley school.

Woke,

You are not looking at it correctly. Remove Wichita State from the MVC and it impacts the entire leagues recruiting. In 3 years they will be much closer to their spending levels. This is not the first conference the phenomena has happened to. The Big West fell off a cliff when UNLV left. Formerly ranked powers Long Beach and Santa Barbara receded to the mediocrity they are today. They were never powers in terms of budgets, but having UNLV in the league brought players to their squads who wanted to play against them. It took a couple years for the full effect to drain out the strength, and I expect the same here.

Bradley is only $200K above the range of the schools on top, I took them out simply to show each had 7 in roughly the same range, little difference. Even throwing them back in, the top 8 MVC have a budget average of just over $2.8m. The top 7 of the Horizon have an average of almost $2.5m. That is not much of a difference, it is a barely incremental sideways move.

I did not say the Horizon was above the MVC, I said without Wichita State, the MVC is comparable, not much separation, and nothing to be gained, going from one one bid conference to another. When you figure in the costs of changing (not non-trivial, since you have exit costs and have to give up a year or more of distributions) it's not a slam dunk. And that was my point.

Larry Bird? We are going back almost two full generations ago. Heck let's bring up Bill Russell playing for the San Francisco Dons while we are at it. No let's not, let's get in the current century I think.

Without Wichita State, yes CUSA ranks ahead of the MVC. That is borne out in the budgets. 5 of their schools have higher budgets than Bradley (below). 6 more rank 138-164 range, $2.33-2.76m. The fact that they are in the stronger recruiting zone of the south (Florida, Georgia, Texas, Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee) gives them an added advantage. Doesn't mean it shows up every year. And at the Upper Mid-Major that may not translate into a 2nd bid, since you have to be a top 50 school to get that (we are talking 100-170 range of schools here with these conferences). It should make then stronger in a few years (UNLV effect).

Top 5 CUSA budgets
99) University of Alabama at Birmingham $4,189,826
106) The University of Texas at El Paso $3,623,777
107) Old Dominion University $3,583,117
111) Rice University $3,427,660
117) University of North Carolina at Charlotte $3,280,507

My basic point is this. You don't change conferences unless it is a clear upgrade. The MVC configured without Creighton or Wichita State does not represent a clear up grade for the top 7 in the Horizon. It's only an incremental move. And maybe less than that because TV exposure will certainly be significantly less without Wichita State (forget ESPN/ESPN2 games). I'm not saying a school like Valparaiso or Illinois Chicago will reject an offer. I am saying it wont gain them much if anything. When the MVC called LUC it was a slam dunk for them to join. It's not a slam dunk this time.

well what is exit fee for horizon
you also have to look at travel
you would get bump in atten
would have to protect your conf tourn
consider missouri st concerns
expand into different states
i,d take murry st, umkc & wi[mill]