...in order to be Division 1. This would seem like a good idea to save schools money all around. Currently you need 7 male and 9 female sports if you are FBS, and 6 male and 8 female if not.

I think it would be better if you would only need 5 male and 7 female if FBS and 4 male and 6 female if not.

(04-01-2017 11:14 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  ...in order to be Division 1. This would seem like a good idea to save schools money all around. Currently you need 7 male and 9 female sports if you are FBS, and 6 male and 8 female if not.

I think it would be better if you would only need 5 male and 7 female if FBS and 4 male and 6 female if not.f

Should be more actually. From 10 for D2 to 14 in D1 isn't as big of a difference. Needs to at least 17 or 18.

Too bad they can't cut the sports that do not make money, but it would be against the law because of the Title 9 issues.

No, schools should admit they cannot afford to pay Football Coaches $2m a year at G5 level. Control their budgets and spending. Reducing the number of sports allows them to continue to be irresponsible without consequences.

I would actually go the other way and place rules limiting Institutional transfer to $10m per year, and require 20 sports for D1, put a minimum of 120 full time scholarship equivalents, 200 with football (175 with FCS). This would force some serious budget control which is currently not in place. Return the focus of the budget on student athletes and off the pre-professional game. Only those with really deep pockets should be running preprofessional sports programs.

(04-01-2017 11:44 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  No, schools should admit they cannot afford to pay Football Coaches $2m a year at G5 level. Control their budgets and spending. Reducing the number of sports allows them to continue to be irresponsible without consequences.

I would actually go the other way and place rules limiting Institutional transfer to $10m per year, and require 20 sports for D1, put a minimum of 120 full time scholarship equivalents, 200 with football (175 with FCS). This would force some serious budget control which is currently not in place. Return the focus of the budget on student athletes and off the pre-professional game. Only those with really deep pockets should be running preprofessional sports programs.

Some P5 schools don't have 20 sports. I know WVU is only at 17.

Well that is why I'd make that rule. The whole point is to bring back more Olympic sports at major schools -- their being dropped it is showing up in the men's medal counts in the Olympics. It's insane that so few schools have Men's Volleyball, and yet it's very popular and played at a high level in high school.

When I look at WVU I see several sports they could start with almost nothing in terms of facilities cost

Softball (have Baseball, only need to add a softball diamond)
Men's cross country
Men's track & field (at the very least get it counting by using cross country runners in long distance events)
Men's tennis (already have women's)
Men's volleyball (already have women's)
Women's bowling is probably the other cheap one they could sponsor

I don't think it's a huge problem for P5 schools. Some of these sports could self fund. The whole point is P5 should sponsor more sports. We are talking 2-3% of the budget here (at most, likely less), and for most schools who are short less than that. Since everybody would have to sponsor 20, nobody would have an unfair burden.

Would it force some G5 to drop to FCS, some FCS to drop to D-II or move football to non-scholarship, and force out soem D-I Basketball schools? Yes, and that is also the purpose, thin the herd a bit, which has bloated over the years.

(04-01-2017 11:19 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 11:14 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  ...in order to be Division 1. This would seem like a good idea to save schools money all around. Currently you need 7 male and 9 female sports if you are FBS, and 6 male and 8 female if not.

I think it would be better if you would only need 5 male and 7 female if FBS and 4 male and 6 female if not.

Should be more actually. From 10 for D2 to 14 in D1 isn't as big of a difference. Needs to at least 17 or 18.

Especially since M&W BBall are a pre-requisite for being in Div1 at all. A school can add a set of track coaches and get to eight sports, between cross country, indoor track & field, and outdoor track & field, only six more needed.

Or it could be 16, but two more team sports, one M, one W. Playing two men's team sports and being "division one", supposedly supporting a broad range of opportunities to engage in top level collegiate athletics, is a bit suss.

Cheerleading should be counted as a scholarship sport. This would solve a lot of issues.

(04-02-2017 07:29 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Cheerleading should be counted as a scholarship sport. This would solve a lot of issues.

This I agree with. NCAA needs to acknowledge cheerleading as a sport and start handling the competitions. Most cheerleaders are already getting scholarships, schools should be able to count these for title 9.

Too many teams in Division I as it is. And most are in it just for the basketball money. They should consider raising the number of sports so that basketball money is less of an incentive.

(04-01-2017 11:19 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 11:14 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  ...in order to be Division 1. This would seem like a good idea to save schools money all around. Currently you need 7 male and 9 female sports if you are FBS, and 6 male and 8 female if not.

I think it would be better if you would only need 5 male and 7 female if FBS and 4 male and 6 female if not.f

Should be more actually. From 10 for D2 to 14 in D1 isn't as big of a difference. Needs to at least 17 or 18.

Absolutely agree

17 to be D1. 21 to be FBS

(04-01-2017 11:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Too bad they can't cut the sports that do not make money, but it would be against the law because of the Title 9 issues.

Then there would be no athletic departments because very few sports actually make money

there shouldn't be any requirement. if you only want 1 team that's what you should be allowed to have.

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I would prefer to see universities work on building a sustainable model for college athletics rather than throwing money at football to chase success and money that won't likely come and slashing non-revs any time belt tightening is needed.

fbs should have higher minimum than 14.
College athletics should be about providing a well balanced experience for students and not just about making money. Revenue from FB, BB and hockey helps provide that experience to kids that play other sports. The majority of these kids aren't going to play pro sports, however being a part of a team in college does/should help kids prepare for life after college and hopefully provide the tools to become successful.
A school like Holy Cross still holds on, to what college athletics should be, They offer over 25 D1 programs and have one of the smallest enrollments in the country.
a school generating multiple times the athletic revenue and enrollment of Holy Cross,should be able to provide alternatives to its students that don't excel in the revenue sports. Should be able to find balance between success and availability.

I'd like to see the universities put more money/funding into club sports, and have fewer of them be varsity sports.

Golf and tennis, for sure, should be club. Same with bowling. Those should not be varsity, NCAA sports.

yea lets cut scholarship opportunities to student athletes so fewer can get all the $$. good plan. better to add more scholarships and take some back from the cash cows


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(04-02-2017 07:29 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Cheerleading should be counted as a scholarship sport. This would solve a lot of issues.

The only way dance and cheer should be counted as sports is if it is coupled with an increase in the required number of sports. I'm fine with dance and cheer being sports IF we increase the Division I minimum to 16 sports and the FBS minimum to 18. Otherwise existing sports get cut.

(04-02-2017 10:14 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  fbs should have higher minimum than 14.
College athletics should be about providing a well balanced experience for students and not just about making money. Revenue from FB, BB and hockey helps provide that experience to kids that play other sports. The majority of these kids aren't going to play pro sports, however being a part of a team in college does/should help kids prepare for life after college and hopefully provide the tools to become successful.
A school like Holy Cross still holds on, to what college athletics should be, They offer over 25 D1 programs and have one of the smallest enrollments in the country.
a school generating multiple times the athletic revenue and enrollment of Holy Cross,should be able to provide alternatives to its students that don't excel in the revenue sports. Should be able to find balance between success and availability.

FBS minimum is 16. Division I minimum is 14.

In FBS you have to award a minimum of 200 grants-in-aid equivalents and must award at least 90% of the 85 allowed football scholarships.

Meanwhile in Division I non-football and FCS, a school only has to sponsor 14 sports, no less than 7 being for women. A school only has to award 50% of the scholarships allowed for the sports they play or spend $965,000 on 38 full grants not counting football or basketball or award 50 full equivalencies not counting football or basketball.

So an expensive private school without football can sponsor 14 sports or more and stay Division I by offering only 66 scholarships (13 men's basketball, 15 women's basketball, 38 spread over the other 12 or more sports) or a cheaper public institution can sponsor 14 or more sports and award 78 scholarships (13 men's hoops, 15 women's hoops, 50 spread over the other 12 or more sports). That same public with football could offer 100% of the football scholarships and men's and women's basketball scholarships for a grand total of 141 scholarships spread over 14 or more sports.

There is a real disconnect now in Division I. Just in the Sun Belt, Arkansas State in FBS awards 203 of 203 allowed grants-in-aid while Little Rock offers around 105 of the 120.8 grants-in-aid they permitted to award.

(04-01-2017 11:14 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  ...in order to be Division 1. This would seem like a good idea to save schools money all around. Currently you need 7 male and 9 female sports if you are FBS, and 6 male and 8 female if not.

I think it would be better if you would only need 5 male and 7 female if FBS and 4 male and 6 female if not.

Re: OP


You are correct that track, swimming, etc are little more than expenditures that are required in order to have football/basketball. But where does all the extra money go now? Most of the surplus goes to coaches of revenue sports.

All that your proposal would accomplish is to increase salaries for ADs, football coaches, and men's basketball coaches.