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With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
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DavidSt Online
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RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-01-2017 07:55 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:03 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  Is Belmont-Nashville too far out of the foot print?


Belmont could be on their way to the Southern Conference. Southern could go back to a multi-bid if Belmont and College of Charleston go there.

We have to think that a replacement for Wichita State is a public school. Which public schools have had success basketball recently? North Dakota State and South Dakota State might be ones to look at. If they go to 12? Take the 2 Dakota schools and Valparaiso to get the basketball RPI back up. That would be 6 publics and 6 privates.

Give me one article on Belmont to the Southern Conference.



http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sport...ne/416549/

It is something that the Southern Conference are looking at in expanding and improving their hoops. It was just after Belmont rejected Horizon League invite for a Southern Conference invite in one sport.
04-01-2017 08:03 PM
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DavidSt Online
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RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-01-2017 08:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 06:40 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 06:13 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 05:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 04:08 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The article forgets one key point. The Kansas Board of Regents must hold a special meeting (usually by telephone conference) to approve the move. There is no such meeting on the agenda yet. So the Presidents must approve and an invite contract written up and given, at least informally to Wichita State, who then have to call a KBOR special meeting, and only after approval can they accept and have a press conference.

I would hold off on an actual official invite/acceptance date until this website shows a special meeting
http://www.kansasregents.org/about/regen...nd_minutes

As for fallout, very little. The MVC will convene a search for a replacement member, and that will likely conclude a few months out. If they invite anyone, it'll probably be UIC or Valpo. If the Horizon replaces them, and they may not bother, the most obvious candidate is Robert Morris, the finalist they passed over last time in favor of Northern Kentucky. End of realignment.

Missouri valley ceases to be an Upper Mid Major, becomes the 21st conference in the Lower Mid Major category. (Only AAC, A10, WCC, MWC, and CUSA remain in the shrinking Upper Mid category). Death of the middle class.

They may not want another Chicago area school. I think their first shot is getting St. Louis to return. A10 has become a poor geographic fit for them. After that its difficult. You either add Valpo or UIC in Chicago, W. Illinois to bring in one of your football affiliates or go for someone like Detroit. Nobody has been real consistent in basketball lately. Schools like Milwaukee, Cleveland St. and Murray St. might have made sense at other times.

There is zero chance of SLU going to the MVC. They turned down the MVC in favor of the A10 when the MVC was a multi-bid conference with WSU and Creighton in it and with their head coach (Majerus) lobbying for the MVC as well. The only geographic change for them has been one less Ohio school and SLU wants to be in an East Coast conference for student recruitment purposes. When Temple, Xavier and Butler left the other A10 presidents informed Dayton and SLU that they would not consider adding any new members from the Midwest and neither SLU or Dayton objected.

As for the MVC, Valpo is probably the best choice among a bunch of weak candidates. I'm not sure that Valpo gains much going from one bid conference to another.

That is kind of a problem. MVC, Horizon and the Summit are all solid, lean Midwestern conferences.

12) Missouri Valley Conference (RPI 0.5031)-10 teams
17) Horizon League (RPI 0.4882)-10 teams
18) Summit League (RPI 0.4851)-9 teams (10 with NDSU)

If you take Wichita out of the MVC the 3 leagues are basically the same.

It make take an MVC move to 12 where the resulting conference would be far stronger than the Horizon or Summit League.

The traditional assumption where MVC>Horizon>Summit may not ring true anymore, IMO.

UMKC moved from the Summit to the WAC. They are the only Midwest mid major school playing outside of their geographic region. I'm pretty sure they would move to the MVC though.

Its a down year. The MVC schools have a lot more tradition and vastly more fan support.


I read the MVC public schools wanted the Dakota schools to join, but the private schools did not. The Private schools wanted to add schools from large tv media markets which is killing them big time.
04-01-2017 08:05 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #23
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
The Dakota schools have very little tradition in basketball.

Better grabbing some markets.

MAC should get off its butt and make a play here....Illinois State, Mo State, UIC and UWM. Move the MAC tourney to Chicago for better recruiting.
04-01-2017 08:14 PM
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SMUfan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-01-2017 08:03 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:55 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:03 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  Is Belmont-Nashville too far out of the foot print?


Belmont could be on their way to the Southern Conference. Southern could go back to a multi-bid if Belmont and College of Charleston go there.

We have to think that a replacement for Wichita State is a public school. Which public schools have had success basketball recently? North Dakota State and South Dakota State might be ones to look at. If they go to 12? Take the 2 Dakota schools and Valparaiso to get the basketball RPI back up. That would be 6 publics and 6 privates.

Give me one article on Belmont to the Southern Conference.



http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sport...ne/416549/

It is something that the Southern Conference are looking at in expanding and improving their hoops. It was just after Belmont rejected Horizon League invite for a Southern Conference invite in one sport.

Thank you. So give me your top 3 for the MVC. One that has football.
04-01-2017 08:37 PM
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SubGod22 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
SLU has an open invitation to the MVC and has for years. There is zero interest.

Belmont has rejected the MVC previously.

The Dakota's wouldn't have the votes and it's not just because of the privates.

There are good/decent programs in the MVC that can do better. UNI is a solid program that typically does more with less than most. Illinois State should be a solid program and have the tools to do so. Bradley should be at the top of the conference and they're working to get back. If some other programs will step up a little and make an effort the MVC can definitely remain above the Summit and Horizon. And as someone else mentioned, the MVC typically has much better fan support than the others. That will help keep them above the others.

With that said, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if UNI, ISU and MSU haven't made some informal contacts with the MAC or Belt to see if there is any way they can move. Both the MAC and Belt have been improving and could be stronger than the MVC without Wichita and one or any of those three. All three I believe would be open to moving up to FBS with the direction things are going in the MVC. That doesn't mean a spot will open for any, but they will be looking.
04-01-2017 08:53 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #26
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-01-2017 06:01 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  How about adding 3? Belmont, Valpo and Murray State. Murray State would give them their 12th football school when North Dakota joins the MVFC.
By far the best move. Not sure the MVC's smart enough.
04-01-2017 09:13 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-01-2017 06:17 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Since its obvious the MVC has been in decline since Creighton left and now Wichita it could be time to shake things up to move to 12 teams.

UW-Milwaukee
UI-Chicago
UM-Kansas City

That would really make things interesting and rejuvenate the MVC.

Horizon could unite Western Ill and Eastern Ill to regain an Illinois presence. Basically a peer of the Summit League in strength moving forward.
Terrible idea for both MVC and especially Horizon.
04-01-2017 09:18 PM
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dxdtdemon Offline
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Post: #28
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
If the MVC is going to take someone from the Horizon, do you think the Horizon will stay at 9 knowing that they'll probably be at 8 within two years after Wright State goes bankrupt? There's no real incentive for a conference to have more than 8 teams unless it can get a better media deal, right? About the only problem is that Northern Kentucky is on an island and would have to travel more than 4 hours to get to all the rest of their conferencemates, so possibly sending NKU to another conference and picking up IPFW would make sense.
04-01-2017 10:06 PM
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Post: #29
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-01-2017 10:06 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote:  If the MVC is going to take someone from the Horizon, do you think the Horizon will stay at 9 knowing that they'll probably be at 8 within two years after Wright State goes bankrupt? There's no real incentive for a conference to have more than 8 teams unless it can get a better media deal, right? About the only problem is that Northern Kentucky is on an island and would have to travel more than 4 hours to get to all the rest of their conferencemates, so possibly sending NKU to another conference and picking up IPFW would make sense.

I don't think the HL will stand pat at 9. At this juncture of realignment and at this level, it is the survival of the fittest between the MVC, HL and the Summit (who have narrowed the gap significantly). If the HL is poached, it must have a plan in place to backfill...possibly with a slight shift to the east (Robert Morris, Duquesne). HL Commish Jon LeCrone is on record during the HL Conference Tourney saying the Horizon have been in talks with prospective invitees. This next realignment move with Wichita State is really going to impact, and I mean IMPACT the 3 of the MVC, Horizon League and The Summit League...for better or in one of those league's case...for worse!
04-02-2017 01:55 AM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #30
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
The incentive for any of the three leagues to remain at 10 members is to have an 18-game schedule in basketball. Having 9 members creates open dates during conference play, and having 8 members means needing 4 extra non-conference games during conference play.
04-02-2017 04:53 AM
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DavidSt Online
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RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-01-2017 08:37 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 08:03 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:55 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:03 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  Is Belmont-Nashville too far out of the foot print?


Belmont could be on their way to the Southern Conference. Southern could go back to a multi-bid if Belmont and College of Charleston go there.

We have to think that a replacement for Wichita State is a public school. Which public schools have had success basketball recently? North Dakota State and South Dakota State might be ones to look at. If they go to 12? Take the 2 Dakota schools and Valparaiso to get the basketball RPI back up. That would be 6 publics and 6 privates.

Give me one article on Belmont to the Southern Conference.



http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sport...ne/416549/

It is something that the Southern Conference are looking at in expanding and improving their hoops. It was just after Belmont rejected Horizon League invite for a Southern Conference invite in one sport.

Thank you. So give me your top 3 for the MVC. One that has football.


The way it goes? The MVC needs to grab several good basketball schools to improve to get back to where they once was at.

Candidates:

Dayton (AAC possible)
Lipscomb
Oakland
Valparaiso
Northern Kentucky
Green Bay
Youngstown State
Milwaukee
Central Arkansas
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Little Rock
Arkansas Tech
Bellarmine
Southern Indiana
Indianapolis
Wis.-Parkside
Drury
UAFS
Dallas Baptist
Rogers State
NW Missouri State
Central Missouri
Central Oklahoma
Fort Hays State
Missouri Southern
Washburn
NE Oklahoma State
SW Minnesota State
Minnesota State-Mankato
Saint Cloud State
Sioux Falls
Oakland City

I added schools from D2 in the region. The interesting part is that NW Missouri State won the D2 football championship and won the men's basketball championship for 2017 in the 2016-2017 school year.
04-02-2017 06:32 AM
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Flying Bearcat Offline
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Post: #32
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-02-2017 06:32 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 08:37 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 08:03 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:55 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Belmont could be on their way to the Southern Conference. Southern could go back to a multi-bid if Belmont and College of Charleston go there.

We have to think that a replacement for Wichita State is a public school. Which public schools have had success basketball recently? North Dakota State and South Dakota State might be ones to look at. If they go to 12? Take the 2 Dakota schools and Valparaiso to get the basketball RPI back up. That would be 6 publics and 6 privates.

Give me one article on Belmont to the Southern Conference.



http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sport...ne/416549/

It is something that the Southern Conference are looking at in expanding and improving their hoops. It was just after Belmont rejected Horizon League invite for a Southern Conference invite in one sport.

Thank you. So give me your top 3 for the MVC. One that has football.


The way it goes? The MVC needs to grab several good basketball schools to improve to get back to where they once was at.

Candidates:

Dayton (AAC possible)
Lipscomb
Oakland
Valparaiso
Northern Kentucky
Green Bay
Youngstown State
Milwaukee
Central Arkansas
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Little Rock
Arkansas Tech
Bellarmine
Southern Indiana
Indianapolis
Wis.-Parkside
Drury
UAFS
Dallas Baptist
Rogers State
NW Missouri State
Central Missouri
Central Oklahoma
Fort Hays State
Missouri Southern
Washburn
NE Oklahoma State
SW Minnesota State
Minnesota State-Mankato
Saint Cloud State
Sioux Falls
Oakland City

I added schools from D2 in the region. The interesting part is that NW Missouri State won the D2 football championship and won the men's basketball championship for 2017 in the 2016-2017 school year.

There is no way my Flyers are joining a Wichita Stateless MVC, barring a complete collapse of the A-10. The fandom was already really skeptical of the idea of joining the AAC. What makes you think that they would be open to joining such a conference when SLU has had an open invite for the longest time and they still don't want to join when everyone else sans Dayton, is on the east coast?
04-02-2017 06:58 AM
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SMUfan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-02-2017 06:32 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 08:37 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 08:03 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:55 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Belmont could be on their way to the Southern Conference. Southern could go back to a multi-bid if Belmont and College of Charleston go there.

We have to think that a replacement for Wichita State is a public school. Which public schools have had success basketball recently? North Dakota State and South Dakota State might be ones to look at. If they go to 12? Take the 2 Dakota schools and Valparaiso to get the basketball RPI back up. That would be 6 publics and 6 privates.

Give me one article on Belmont to the Southern Conference.



http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sport...ne/416549/

It is something that the Southern Conference are looking at in expanding and improving their hoops. It was just after Belmont rejected Horizon League invite for a Southern Conference invite in one sport.

Thank you. So give me your top 3 for the MVC. One that has football.


The way it goes? The MVC needs to grab several good basketball schools to improve to get back to where they once was at.

Candidates:

Dayton (AAC possible)
Lipscomb
Oakland
Valparaiso
Northern Kentucky
Green Bay
Youngstown State
Milwaukee
Central Arkansas
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Little Rock
Arkansas Tech
Bellarmine
Southern Indiana
Indianapolis
Wis.-Parkside
Drury
UAFS
Dallas Baptist
Rogers State
NW Missouri State
Central Missouri
Central Oklahoma
Fort Hays State
Missouri Southern
Washburn
NE Oklahoma State
SW Minnesota State
Minnesota State-Mankato
Saint Cloud State
Sioux Falls
Oakland City

I added schools from D2 in the region. The interesting part is that NW Missouri State won the D2 football championship and won the men's basketball championship for 2017 in the 2016-2017 school year.

Why can't you commit yourself to the top 3?
04-02-2017 07:30 AM
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Post: #34
RE: With Wichita St. likely joining the AAC in 3-4days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-01-2017 04:08 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Missouri valley ceases to be an Upper Mid Major, becomes the 21st conference in the Lower Mid Major category. (Only AAC, A10, WCC, MWC, and CUSA remain in the shrinking Upper Mid category). Death of the middle class.

Looking at this year's Conference RPI's, I think that the death of the middle class is one step further advanced than you are saying here:

6 Majors:
1. ACC, .5796; 2. Big12, .5780; 3. Big East, .5675; 4. Big Ten, .5653; 5. SEC, .5581; 6. PAC12, .5502
Median: .5664, range, +.0132, -.0162

6? High Mid-Majors:
7. AAC, .5242; 8. WCC, .5229; 9. A10, .5227; 10. MWC, .5212; 12. MVC, .5008; 23. CUSA, .4689
Median: .5220, range, +0.0023, -.0531

It seems more plausible that CUSA has alreay dropped out of "High Mid-Major" status ... that would make that a much more tightly clustered group of five "High Mid-Majors" ...
7. AAC, .5242; 8. WCC, .5229; 9. A10, .5227; 10. MWC, .5212; 12. MVC, .5008;
Median: .5227, range, +0.0015, -.0219

... shortly to be four.
04-02-2017 07:53 AM
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Post: #35
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
The divide has certainly grown larger. Each of those "next six" conferences has a couple of programs that can compete with the big boys but even more who aren't even close to that level.
04-02-2017 09:59 AM
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RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-01-2017 03:04 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  MVC adds Illinois-Chicago.

(04-01-2017 04:08 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  If they invite anyone, it'll probably be UIC or Valpo.

Weren't you guys saying UMKC, in the other thread on this topic?? (you know, because it's CS&CR, if there aren't three threads on the same thing, it's not important)


(04-01-2017 05:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  I think their first shot is getting St. Louis to return. A10 has become a poor geographic fit for them.

Not wrong on the geography, and I certainly think MVC will give it a try ... but I think STL is holding out hope for a Big East invite, and views its A10 membership as a prerequisite for said invite.


(04-01-2017 08:53 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  SLU has an open invitation to the MVC and has for years. There is zero interest.

I agree, for the reason I gave bullet above.

(04-01-2017 08:53 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  The Dakota's wouldn't have the votes and it's not just because of the privates.

100% correct.

It's distance, more than anything. The Great Lakes schools really just don't enjoy traveling out to the bleak, cold, plains.

Plus, I think the Dakotas' dominance in the MVFC makes teams like UNI, SIU, IL St, MO St, less likely to vote them, as well.

(04-01-2017 08:53 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UNI is a solid program that typically does more with less than most. Illinois State should be a solid program and have the tools to do so. Bradley should be at the top of the conference and they're working to get back. If some other programs will step up a little and make an effort the MVC can definitely remain above the Summit and Horizon.

Agree with this, even if losing MO St as well. With a core of UNI, IL St, and if SIU and Bradley can get back to winning ... those are programs that are a step above most Horizon and Summit programs, in terms of attendance and spending. Less sure about Drake, Evansville, and Indiana St.

(04-01-2017 08:53 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  U wouldn't be the least bit surprised if UNI, ISU and MSU haven't made some informal contacts with the MAC or Belt to see if there is any way they can move. Both the MAC and Belt have been improving and could be stronger than the MVC without Wichita and one or any of those three. All three I believe would be open to moving up to FBS with the direction things are going in the MVC. That doesn't mean a spot will open for any, but they will be looking.

UNI has a MAC connection with wrestling, which I believe they established for that very purpose. IL St would fit the league's geography better. MO St would've been a great add for the Sun Belt, but now that gate appears closed for a while, unless they are willing to expand past 12.


(04-02-2017 01:55 AM)Chuck_A Wrote:  HL Commish Jon LeCrone is on record during the HL Conference Tourney saying the Horizon have been in talks with prospective invitees. This next realignment move with Wichita State is really going to impact, and I mean IMPACT the 3 of the MVC, Horizon League and The Summit League...for better or in one of those league's case...for worse!

The nice thing, IMO, is that neither the Horizon or the MVC is likely to invite any of the Western schools in the Summit (Dakota 4, Omaha, Denver) Too far away, can't get the votes.

So that leaves the Summit in just fine, regardless what happens to W ILL and the IU-PU schools. Horizon is welcome to any or all of them.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2017 11:02 AM by MplsBison.)
04-02-2017 10:59 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #37
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-01-2017 07:42 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  It's a pain having St. Louis in the A10. They weren't good until they knew there was a chance they could go above the conference, and once that went away for a bit, back into the garbage pile they went. The A10 wins whenever you have good teams in it, and for a bit there, Majerus had that program rocking, but I can't stand them being in the conference.

Like Fordham, I wish they'd just suck it up and go back to something more aligned to their location and overall program operations. Fordham is a Patriot League school, and St. Louis is a MVC one. Good luck trying to convince them that when they collect off the back of the others who prop up their conference. And it's a shame, really...MVC and Patsy both would stand to gain with both those programs respectively. I think moving SLU to MVC might help it retain that multi-bid status.

Regardless, if Wichita does leave soon, the replacement will likely validate their reasons to do so. If this conference goes back to that Valpo-UIC-UMKC well instead of something that actually makes the conference better, I hope the Shockers thrive in their future home. It's a shame. MVC should have known better once it lost Creighton to protect its assets rather than doing something that only looks good because it got them a major city school. Wichita will walk, and...really, UIC?

Were that the case...maybe it finally motivates Mo State and/or Illinois State to move on, too.

To me, arguing that SLU ought to move to the MVC from the A-10 for geographic reasons is almost like asking West Virginia to move to the AAC from the Big 12 for geographic reasons - AKA it's absolutely insane with respect to today's conference realignment environment. There is only one league that SLU would (and should) move to today: the Big East.

Count me as someone that believes that many people are severely underestimating the conference realignment value (which should be distinguished from on-the-court value) of SLU. It's a good academic school located in a large media market with excellent facilities and without any NBA competition. I'm not exactly sure why anyone would think that SLU would actually willingly *downgrade* conferences (and the SLU leadership happens to agree). If SLU is merely halfway decent competitively, they'd be on the very short list to *upgrade* to the Big East. They sure as heck aren't going to take a step back conference-wise. SLU is a school with a ton of *institutional value* (e.g. academics, media market, branding) and that's ALWAYS going to be there (unlike on-the-court performance which is always fleeting). On the flip side, the long-term value for SLU is exposure in the East as opposed to the slow-growth and comparatively low population areas to the west of them. Why do you think Creighton bolted for the Big East immediately and Wichita State has been openly pining to get out of the MVC so badly? As a result, why on Earth would SLU (which actually has more inherent institutional value than both Creighton and Wichita State) take a step backwards? As I always say, think like a university president and not like a fan.
04-02-2017 11:04 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-02-2017 11:04 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:42 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  It's a pain having St. Louis in the A10. They weren't good until they knew there was a chance they could go above the conference, and once that went away for a bit, back into the garbage pile they went. The A10 wins whenever you have good teams in it, and for a bit there, Majerus had that program rocking, but I can't stand them being in the conference.

Like Fordham, I wish they'd just suck it up and go back to something more aligned to their location and overall program operations. Fordham is a Patriot League school, and St. Louis is a MVC one. Good luck trying to convince them that when they collect off the back of the others who prop up their conference. And it's a shame, really...MVC and Patsy both would stand to gain with both those programs respectively. I think moving SLU to MVC might help it retain that multi-bid status.

Regardless, if Wichita does leave soon, the replacement will likely validate their reasons to do so. If this conference goes back to that Valpo-UIC-UMKC well instead of something that actually makes the conference better, I hope the Shockers thrive in their future home. It's a shame. MVC should have known better once it lost Creighton to protect its assets rather than doing something that only looks good because it got them a major city school. Wichita will walk, and...really, UIC?

Were that the case...maybe it finally motivates Mo State and/or Illinois State to move on, too.

To me, arguing that SLU ought to move to the MVC from the A-10 for geographic reasons is almost like asking West Virginia to move to the AAC from the Big 12 for geographic reasons - AKA it's absolutely insane with respect to today's conference realignment environment. There is only one league that SLU would (and should) move to today: the Big East.

Count me as someone that believes that many people are severely underestimating the conference realignment value (which should be distinguished from on-the-court value) of SLU. It's a good academic school located in a large media market with excellent facilities and without any NBA competition. I'm not exactly sure why anyone would think that SLU would actually willingly *downgrade* conferences (and the SLU leadership happens to agree). If SLU is merely halfway decent competitively, they'd be on the very short list to *upgrade* to the Big East. They sure as heck aren't going to take a step back conference-wise. SLU is a school with a ton of *institutional value* (e.g. academics, media market, branding) and that's ALWAYS going to be there (unlike on-the-court performance which is always fleeting). On the flip side, the long-term value for SLU is exposure in the East as opposed to the slow-growth and comparatively low population areas to the west of them. Why do you think Creighton bolted for the Big East immediately and Wichita State has been openly pining to get out of the MVC so badly? As a result, why on Earth would SLU (which actually has more inherent institutional value than both Creighton and Wichita State) take a step backwards? As I always say, think like a university president and not like a fan.

Since the Rams left, Saint Louis has absolutely no competition in the Winter months. No NFL or NBA teams. Just college basketball. When Saint Louis was strong under Rick Majerus, they were selling out their brand new Chaifetz Arena - which seats 10k. It is also a very strong recruiting area that is also a large TV market.

Frank, do you see Saint Louis (and/or Dayton) being added to the Big East before the next TV deal?
04-02-2017 11:12 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #39
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-01-2017 05:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 04:08 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The article forgets one key point. The Kansas Board of Regents must hold a special meeting (usually by telephone conference) to approve the move. There is no such meeting on the agenda yet. So the Presidents must approve and an invite contract written up and given, at least informally to Wichita State, who then have to call a KBOR special meeting, and only after approval can they accept and have a press conference.

I would hold off on an actual official invite/acceptance date until this website shows a special meeting
http://www.kansasregents.org/about/regen...nd_minutes

As for fallout, very little. The MVC will convene a search for a replacement member, and that will likely conclude a few months out. If they invite anyone, it'll probably be UIC or Valpo. If the Horizon replaces them, and they may not bother, the most obvious candidate is Robert Morris, the finalist they passed over last time in favor of Northern Kentucky. End of realignment.

Missouri valley ceases to be an Upper Mid Major, becomes the 21st conference in the Lower Mid Major category. (Only AAC, A10, WCC, MWC, and CUSA remain in the shrinking Upper Mid category). Death of the middle class.

They may not want another Chicago area school. I think their first shot is getting St. Louis to return. A10 has become a poor geographic fit for them. After that its difficult. You either add Valpo or UIC in Chicago, W. Illinois to bring in one of your football affiliates or go for someone like Detroit. Nobody has been real consistent in basketball lately. Schools like Milwaukee, Cleveland St. and Murray St. might have made sense at other times.

From what I see, I actually *do* think the MVC wants another Chicago area school. Regardless of how UIC or Valpo perform on-the-court, the Chicago area is where the MVC schools basically live and die with respect to recruits - and I'm talking about college students in general much more than basketball recruits. Without a critical mass of Chicago area students pumping in tuition dollars, schools like Drake, Bradley and even Northern Iowa, much less Illinois State and Southern Illinois, would basically die. Think of how the A-10 has dense concentrations in the Philadelphia and DC/Virginia regions: that's basically what the MVC needs in the Chicago area long-term. It's a very different calculation compared to, say, a P5 conference or even the AAC or MWC where market diversity is the name of the game for conference realignment. For the MVC, I believe that its long-term survival is predicated on being to Chicago in the same way that the A-10 is to Philly (and that's not going to be achieved by only having one Chicago area school). Once again, this is as much about exposure in the Chicago area for the general student population that will be paying tuition in the future as it is about basketball.
04-02-2017 11:16 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #40
RE: With Wichita State likely joining the AAC in 3-4 days, what dominos will this cause?
(04-02-2017 11:12 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 11:04 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:42 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  It's a pain having St. Louis in the A10. They weren't good until they knew there was a chance they could go above the conference, and once that went away for a bit, back into the garbage pile they went. The A10 wins whenever you have good teams in it, and for a bit there, Majerus had that program rocking, but I can't stand them being in the conference.

Like Fordham, I wish they'd just suck it up and go back to something more aligned to their location and overall program operations. Fordham is a Patriot League school, and St. Louis is a MVC one. Good luck trying to convince them that when they collect off the back of the others who prop up their conference. And it's a shame, really...MVC and Patsy both would stand to gain with both those programs respectively. I think moving SLU to MVC might help it retain that multi-bid status.

Regardless, if Wichita does leave soon, the replacement will likely validate their reasons to do so. If this conference goes back to that Valpo-UIC-UMKC well instead of something that actually makes the conference better, I hope the Shockers thrive in their future home. It's a shame. MVC should have known better once it lost Creighton to protect its assets rather than doing something that only looks good because it got them a major city school. Wichita will walk, and...really, UIC?

Were that the case...maybe it finally motivates Mo State and/or Illinois State to move on, too.

To me, arguing that SLU ought to move to the MVC from the A-10 for geographic reasons is almost like asking West Virginia to move to the AAC from the Big 12 for geographic reasons - AKA it's absolutely insane with respect to today's conference realignment environment. There is only one league that SLU would (and should) move to today: the Big East.

Count me as someone that believes that many people are severely underestimating the conference realignment value (which should be distinguished from on-the-court value) of SLU. It's a good academic school located in a large media market with excellent facilities and without any NBA competition. I'm not exactly sure why anyone would think that SLU would actually willingly *downgrade* conferences (and the SLU leadership happens to agree). If SLU is merely halfway decent competitively, they'd be on the very short list to *upgrade* to the Big East. They sure as heck aren't going to take a step back conference-wise. SLU is a school with a ton of *institutional value* (e.g. academics, media market, branding) and that's ALWAYS going to be there (unlike on-the-court performance which is always fleeting). On the flip side, the long-term value for SLU is exposure in the East as opposed to the slow-growth and comparatively low population areas to the west of them. Why do you think Creighton bolted for the Big East immediately and Wichita State has been openly pining to get out of the MVC so badly? As a result, why on Earth would SLU (which actually has more inherent institutional value than both Creighton and Wichita State) take a step backwards? As I always say, think like a university president and not like a fan.

Since the Rams left, Saint Louis has absolutely no competition in the Winter months. No NFL or NBA teams. Just college basketball. When Saint Louis was strong under Rick Majerus, they were selling out their brand new Chaifetz Arena - which seats 10k. It is also a very strong recruiting area that is also a large TV market.

Frank, do you see Saint Louis (and/or Dayton) being added to the Big East before the next TV deal?

I'm more skeptical of the Big East expanding compared to a couple of years ago. I think the bar is higher now - 2 years ago was when the Big East would have been more willing to overlook SLU's on-the-court performance since the school is such a great institutional and media market fit. Dayton is almost the anti-SLU: everything on-the-court is great with fantastic fan support, but its media market (or lack thereof) is a big-time negative. If Dayton could switch locations with SLU or Duquesne, then I think they'd already be in the Big East. Alas, location is the one thing that schools can't change.

That being said, if SLU could simply be consistently competitive, then I believe the Big East would be very interested in them pretty quickly. Like I've said, they're basically a perfect institutional fit and would bridge the western geographic gap of the league with Creighton. On the flip side, I don't believe the Big East would expand with two Midwestern schools - the Eastern schools are going to insist upon an eastern member. VCU and Richmond have been talked about a lot, although I've been of the opinion for a few years that Davidson (with legitimately *elite* academics and a new market location in North Carolina) is going to be on the radar.
04-02-2017 11:26 AM
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