When was Arkansas last relevant in basketball? I don't think anyone cares about advice from them. With that said, and as others have pointed out, he's turned down numerous P5 jobs. Some have thrown at least 4M at him and he's stayed in Wichita. He is king here. He will be paid 3.5M starting this coming season which I believe has him in the top 10 in pay. He will have a Final Four contender this coming season and recruiting only continues to improve and being in the AAC will definitely help compared to the MVC. Fan support and a number of wealthy donors not named Koch will allow us to attract a quality coach when 3G retires.

Wichita is also growing and expanding in its research commitment and has made large strides the past handful of years and continues to move in that direction. Finally being affiliated with other research focused schools will only enhance that aspect of what we are doing on that side of things.

(04-01-2017 10:29 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 09:49 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  In other words, about on Houston's level??

Come on, man.

Other than Tulane, you have no schools with an elite reputation, and other than Cincy, USF, and to a less extent UConn and Temple, you have no major research universities.

Pretty uninformed there, Bison.

I would say the American has several excellent schools

Tulane
Navy
SMU
Tulsa
UConn

All rated Top 35-90 by USNWR. All with average SATs in excess of 1230

And several very good schools

Cincy
USF
UCF
Temple
Houston

All rated Top 118-194 by USNWR. All with average SATs in excess of 1150.

Aside from Navy and private schools Tulane, Tulsa and SMU which don't do a lot of research, the other six schools are ranked Top 72-137 in America by ARWU. Houston, Cincy and South Florida lead the way.

We have two weaker schools who are trying to improve.

Memphis
East Carolina

Both have averages SATs at 1060 or less. Unlike the others, neither is in the Princeton Review Top 381 colleges in America. Neither has a Phi Beta Kappa chapter. Although state schools, neither is ranked by ARWU.

I'd give the edge to ECU since they are ranked 210 by USNWR and Memphis is not ranked.

Wichita State's profile fits with this bottom group. Not ranked by USNWR. Not ranked by ARWU. Not in Princeton Review 381. No Phi Beta Kappa chapter. 1060 average SAT.

Carnegie R1 research universities in the AAC:

UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Tulane
Houston

Carnegie R2 research universities in the AAC:

SMU
Tulsa
Memphis
ECU
Wichita

The R2 classification also includes these P5 schools:

Auburn
Baylor
Miss State
Oklahoma St
Alabama
Wake Forest
TCU

Fun to note that UAB--with the state's public med school--ranks higher than the Univ. of Alabama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_re...ted_States

(04-01-2017 09:32 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 09:09 AM)DrBox Wrote:  Wichita State is a good institutional fit as well

That part I'm not sure about. They appear to be about on Memphis' level academically. It's the only drawback as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with you on that comparison, but that's fine. They don't enhance, but they are an urban school that fits well with Memphis.
I look more at research, and they aren't at the level of UH, UC, the Fla schools, Tulane, U Conn (AAC has some research beasts), but they do okay and are trying to get better.

Carnegie and USNWR are irrelevant. But, people are just going to find sources that suit their opinions, so we can just agree to disagree.

(04-01-2017 11:22 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Carnegie and USNWR are irrelevant. But, people are just going to find sources that suit their opinions, so we can just agree to disagree.

You were the one that stated without citation that the AAC had no major research universities "other than Cincy, USF, and to a less extent UConn and Temple".

My citation to Carnegie's classification v. some classification off the top of your head. So, yes, we'll disagree.

NSF is the only actual ranking of research. The numbers are freely available.

S Florida and Cincy are up there with a lot of the big boys. After that you have UConn lower and Temple and C Florida a bit lower yet, and then it drops off after that.

As you noted, UAB is the only major research school in the state. Because, it mostly comes down to medical/health science funding. That's where the big dollars are, with some exceptions.

Total (including non-federal): https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2015/html...ST_17.html
Federal only (by parent agency): https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2015/html...ST_21.html

(04-01-2017 11:35 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  NSF is the only actual ranking of research. The numbers are freely available.

AAC had more in gross NSF competitive research grants than the Big 12 (as of a couple of years ago, the last time I compiled the numbers).

NSF just one agency, that funds anything related to fundamental science. The bulk of federal research funding comes from NIH, for medical and health science research.

(04-01-2017 11:41 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  NSF just one agency, that funds anything related to fundamental science. The bulk of federal research funding comes from NIH, for medical and health science research.

I included all of that, except for USDA grants which are non-competitive.
This is what I used.

https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/datatables/her...ST_22.html

(04-01-2017 11:35 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  NSF is the only actual ranking of research. The numbers are freely available.

S Florida and Cincy are up there with a lot of the big boys. After that you have UConn lower and Temple and C Florida a bit lower yet, and then it drops off after that.

As you noted, UAB is the only major research school in the state. Because, it mostly comes down to medical/health science funding. That's where the big dollars are, with some exceptions.

Total (including non-federal): https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2015/html...ST_17.html
Federal only (by parent agency): https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2015/html...ST_21.html

In addition to the AAC schools you mentioned, both Houston and Tulane are in the top 125 on the list you provided. So, by your own source, more than half the league ranks in the top 125 in research. That's actually pretty good.

(04-01-2017 11:01 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  When was Arkansas last relevant in basketball? I don't think anyone cares about advice from them. With that said, and as others have pointed out, he's turned down numerous P5 jobs. Some have thrown at least 4M at him and he's stayed in Wichita. He is king here. He will be paid 3.5M starting this coming season which I believe has him in the top 10 in pay. He will have a Final Four contender this coming season and recruiting only continues to improve and being in the AAC will definitely help compared to the MVC. Fan support and a number of wealthy donors not named Koch will allow us to attract a quality coach when 3G retires.

Wichita is also growing and expanding in its research commitment and has made large strides the past handful of years and continues to move in that direction. Finally being affiliated with other research focused schools will only enhance that aspect of what we are doing on that side of things.

Can you say Koch brothers! They are big benefactors to the University and the City.

(04-01-2017 12:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  So, by your own source, more than half the league ranks in the top 125 in research. That's actually pretty good.

Top 125 doesn't mean anything, though.

That's like saying if out of a class of 100, the 10 best got A's and the rest got D's, that being in the "top 30" is good. Yeah I guess 67% is better than 64% ...

(04-01-2017 08:10 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-31-2017 11:30 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  

(03-31-2017 10:45 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Well to be fair, Navy was added when it still was the Big East and the BCS was still in flux.

Uhhh ... no .. that is wrong.

Which part? Because John Marinatto was the commissioner when Navy along with

Houston
SMU
UCF
Boise
San Diego St
Temple

were added in late 2011 or early 2012 in response to West Va, Pitt & Syracuse announcing their departures (and TCU announcing its withdrawal).

We all joined the Big East.

Marinatto resigned in May 2012. The Catholic 7 didn't break off until December 2012.

Louisville was still in the conference when the BCS bid was in play, and even AFTER the BCS bid was NOT in play .... and Navy was never part of a conference with Louisville.

(04-01-2017 10:31 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 10:17 AM)TripleA Wrote:  UConn not going. JMO.

The key to keeping UConn (and Cincy) from rejoining the Big East is getting a TV deal that equals or exceeds the Big East deal.

This remains to be seen.

Yeah.

I don't think it happens with Wichita. UConn is a constant in the AAC's contract but a variable for the Big East's. And the Big East will probably fetch FAR more with UConn than others think they could get with A10 schools.

What adding Wichita could do is add value to basketball power (not necessarily television money) and help the conference send more than just two schools a year to the tournament, helping the conference net more credits and more dough from basketball to make up for what the television deal doesn't provide...

...but, the best the AAC has ever done is four bids. That's the worst the Big East has done. This year, the Big East sent seven, to the AAC's two. AAC has a championship to its name...so does the Big East. In that respect, the Big East is already winning that battle.

People think UConn football anchors them to the AAC. It's an anchor...but Big East money will do more for that department and program than anything AAC has or will offer. If UConn does stay...have to wonder if there is something far better shortly ahead, or there's some reasons we will never understand that keep that school to ESPN, which has been a money-maker for the network, and UConn little to show for it.

(04-01-2017 08:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 10:31 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 10:17 AM)TripleA Wrote:  UConn not going. JMO.

The key to keeping UConn (and Cincy) from rejoining the Big East is getting a TV deal that equals or exceeds the Big East deal.

This remains to be seen.

Yeah.

I don't think it happens with Wichita. UConn is a constant in the AAC's contract but a variable for the Big East's. And the Big East will probably fetch FAR more with UConn than others think they could get with A10 schools.

What adding Wichita could do is add value to basketball power (not necessarily television money) and help the conference send more than just two schools a year to the tournament, helping the conference net more credits and more dough from basketball to make up for what the television deal doesn't provide...

...but, the best the AAC has ever done is four bids. That's the worst the Big East has done. This year, the Big East sent seven, to the AAC's two. AAC has a championship to its name...so does the Big East. In that respect, the Big East is already winning that battle.

People think UConn football anchors them to the AAC. It's an anchor...but Big East money will do more for that department and program than anything AAC has or will offer. If UConn does stay...have to wonder if there is something far better shortly ahead, or there's some reasons we will never understand that keep that school to ESPN, which has been a money-maker for the network, and UConn little to show for it.

It seems like so many people want to carve up the AAC...

...but this Wichita move makes the conference stronger than ever. Wichita State was added at the behest of the basketball schools. 12/12. The only way anyone leaves is if a power football conference suddenly feels froggy.
And current contracts make that highly unlikely.

The AAC already has 2 NY6 Wins, a MBB National Championship, 3 WBB Nattys...

Looking forward to next years hoops already.

No, not "carve." But if you think some in that conference don't feel stuck, recycle that gif.

You're willing to put the AAC's basketball success out there, like, because you think it's all to share? That's all UConn...and they deserve more money for that.

(04-02-2017 07:31 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  No, not "carve." But if you think some in that conference don't feel stuck, recycle that gif.

You're willing to put the AAC's basketball success out there, like, because you think it's all to share? That's all UConn...and they deserve more money for that.

Well the same can be said about the SEC and Alabama for football and Kentucky for basketball. Also the same could be said about Duke and UNC for basketball in the ACC.

(04-01-2017 02:09 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 08:10 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  ... Which part? Because John Marinatto was the commissioner when Navy along with

Houston
SMU
UCF
Boise
San Diego St
Temple

were added in late 2011 or early 2012 in response to West Va, Pitt & Syracuse announcing their departures (and TCU announcing its withdrawal).

We all joined the Big East.

Marinatto resigned in May 2012. The Catholic 7 didn't break off until December 2012.

Louisville was still in the conference when the BCS bid was in play, and even AFTER the BCS bid was NOT in play .... and Navy was never part of a conference with Louisville.

CougarRed is not talking about the year that Navy started playing in the AAC, but about the year that Navy was invited to join and accepted the invite. There's quite often a 1yr-3yr lag between the two.

At the time, there was a line of speculation about Navy abandoning the invite because the conference they would be joining was so different from the one that they had agreed to join. AFAIR, the loss of Louisville was a part of that speculation.

(04-02-2017 07:48 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 07:31 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  No, not "carve." But if you think some in that conference don't feel stuck, recycle that gif.

You're willing to put the AAC's basketball success out there, like, because you think it's all to share? That's all UConn...and they deserve more money for that.

Well the same can be said about the SEC and Alabama for football and Kentucky for basketball. Also the same could be said about Duke and UNC for basketball in the ACC.

Exactly. Its the way it is in all the conferences. Different programs pull greater weight in various sports. In AAC football, its been Navy, Houston, and assorted schools not named UConn. In Big 12 basketball, its Kansas and everyone else. In Big 12 football, its OU.
I don't expect a GW fan to know. You're painting a picture that suits you and your world. We get that. Using your logic, Nova deserves a greater portion for their improbable run last year. Outside of that run, the NBE doesn't have much to hang their hats on. While they've gotten more bids to this point, that's merely because their expansion candidates were all ready to go in basketball. They chose Creighton on the strength of their best player ever (who had 1 more season of eligibility).
The NBE played the short game of inviting such a MBB program way out of their footprint, while the AAC went into the MBB program building business to build an All-Sports conference with a solid foothold in the Florida & Texas recruiting grounds. It's required more patience as new coaches were hired and more money was poured into infrastructure.
It's been working out well. Good coaches have flocked to the conference. A program like UCF under Dawkins was an NCAA caliber team this year that just didn't have anyone on the bench. When BJ Taylor went down for awhile Dawkins had to use his creativity just to keep the ship on course. Then BJ comes back and the program goes on a Semifinal run in the NIT. Next year, Johnny Dawkins is getting a lot more pieces. An NCAA run looks to be on the horizon.
That's emblematic of the growth process in the conference. Most of the programs had depth issues this year, either due to injuries or the fact that they are a developing program. The AAC still ended up with 2 Top 20 teams not named UConn.
Wichita State comes in at a phenomenal time, when rosters will get the depth replenishment they were creatively working around this past year. Temple, for instance, has a class coming in that will ratchet its talent level up significantly.
The Shockers balance out a really cool footprint. It's going to be fun watching the Western group compete with the Eastern group. (Both Navy and Wichita play their sports in the West).

(04-02-2017 09:40 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 07:48 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 07:31 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  No, not "carve." But if you think some in that conference don't feel stuck, recycle that gif.

You're willing to put the AAC's basketball success out there, like, because you think it's all to share? That's all UConn...and they deserve more money for that.

Well the same can be said about the SEC and Alabama for football and Kentucky for basketball. Also the same could be said about Duke and UNC for basketball in the ACC.

Exactly. Its the way it is in all the conferences. Different programs pull greater weight in various sports. In AAC football, its been Navy, Houston, and assorted schools not named UConn. In Big 12 basketball, its Kansas and everyone else. In Big 12 football, its OU.
I don't expect a GW fan to know. You're painting a picture that suits you and your world. We get that. Using your logic, Nova deserves a greater portion for their improbable run last year. Outside of that run, the NBE doesn't have much to hang their hats on. While they've gotten more bids to this point, that's merely because their expansion candidates were all ready to go in basketball. They chose Creighton on the strength of their best player ever (who had 1 more season of eligibility).
The NBE played the short game of inviting such a MBB program way out of their footprint, while the AAC went into the MBB program building business to build an All-Sports conference with a solid foothold in the Florida & Texas recruiting grounds. It's required more patience as new coaches were hired and more money was poured into infrastructure.
It's been working out well. Good coaches have flocked to the conference. A program like UCF under Dawkins was an NCAA caliber team this year that just didn't have anyone on the bench. When BJ Taylor went down for awhile Dawkins had to use his creativity just to keep the ship on course. Then BJ comes back and the program goes on a Semifinal run in the NIT. Next year, Johnny Dawkins is getting a lot more pieces. An NCAA run looks to be on the horizon.
That's emblematic of the growth process in the conference. Most of the programs had depth issues this year, either due to injuries or the fact that they are a developing program. The AAC still ended up with 2 Top 20 teams not named UConn.
Wichita State comes in at a phenomenal time, when rosters will get the depth replenishment they were creatively working around this past year. Temple, for instance, has a class coming in that will ratchet its talent level up significantly.
The Shockers balance out a really cool footprint. It's going to be fun watching the Western group compete with the Eastern group. (Both Navy and Wichita play their sports in the West).

Creighton was not added to the Big East because of one player (Doug McDermott). If you truly believe that is the case, then you don't know a thing about realignment. Creighton was an institutional, academic, athletic and geographic fit. They have one of the top attendance figures in the country, with brand new facilities. They are a true peer with the other Big East institutions, and have been an excellent fit since day one.

And the Big East doesn't have much to hang its hat on? Really? We are treated like a power conference. We have a scheduling alliance with the B1G. We are paid like a power basketball conference, impressive for one that doesn't even sponsor football. We have had 90% of our conference make the NCAA Tournament since the reorganization. We finished 3rd in all conferences in RPI. We had a 113-45 non-conference record. Our viewership on Fox has increased every year, including nearly 20% this year alone. We just had our 35th year at Madison Square Garden for the Big East Tournament, and had one of the top conference attendances in the country. The conference has much to hang its hat - but don't let that change your continued perception that small-time little Catholic schools that don't have football can't compete with the big boys...