Since it's the off-season, there's clearly time for pointless debate. With that said, I took a shot at assembling what I think is the all-time JMU Football 1st and 2nd team.

Some inclusions were super obvious (Haley, Clark), and others were really tough. For instance, which 2 QBs make the squads? You could make a case for Vad Lee, Eriq Williams, Bryan Schor, Mike Cawley, Justin Rascati and Rodney Landers, but you can only pick 2.

Note: To assemble these teams, I considered a number of factors: 1) did they play in the NFL and for how long 2) Were they All-Americans 3) Were they first team All-Conference? 4) Where are they on the all-time JMU records list (both for career and single season) 5) Are they in the JMU Hall-of-Fame?

What do you think? Any glaring omissions or undeserving inclusions?

(I'll include the list as a reply in case you want reference it in a reply)

First team mentioned first, Second Team mentioned in (parentheses)

QB: Mike Cawley (Brian Schor)

RB: Curtis Keaton, Warren Marshall (Khalid Abdullah, Alvin Banks)

OL: Earl Watford, Corey Davis, Matt Magerko, Josh Wells, Carlo Bianchini
(Dorian Brooks, Mitch Kirsch, John Kent, John Blackwell, Scott Lemm)

TE: Ed Perry (Mike Caussin)

WR: Gary Clark, Macey Brooks (David McLeod, Jay Jones)

DL: Charles Haley, Arthur Moats, Steve Bates, Dion Foxx (Chris Morant, Kevin Winston, Jordan Stanton, D.J.Bryant)

LB: Akeem Jordan, Clyde Hoy, Derek Lloyd (Stephon Robertson, Shawn Woodson, Derick Pack)

CB: Tony Booth, Taylor Reynolds (Bob Logan, John Stein)

Safeties: Dean Marlowe, Tony Lezotte (Clint Kent, Eupton Jackson)

Kicker: Scott Norwood (Cameron Starke)

Punter: Nelson Garner (Gunnar Kane)

Return Specialist: Scotty McGee (Delvin Joyce)

Rashard Davis would have to be ahead of Delvin.

Clyde Hoy was a linebacker.

(03-29-2017 11:35 AM)chicagoduke Wrote:  First team mentioned first, Second Team mentioned in (parentheses)

QB: Mike Cawley (Brian Schor)

RB: Curtis Keaton, Warren Marshall (Khalid Abdullah, Alvin Banks)

OL: Earl Watford, Corey Davis, Matt Magerko, Josh Wells, Carlo Bianchini
(Dorian Brooks, Mitch Kirsch, John Kent, John Blackwell, Scott Lemm)

TE: Ed Perry (Mike Caussin)

WR: Gary Clark, Macey Brooks (David McLeod, Jay Jones)

DL: Charles Haley, Arthur Moats, Steve Bates, Clyde Hoy (Chris Morant, Kevin Winston, Jordan Stanton, D.J.Bryant)

LB: Akeem Jordan, Dion Foxx, Derek Lloyd (Stephon Robertson, Shawn Woodson, Derick Pack

CB: Tony Booth, Taylor Reynolds (Bob Logan, John Stein)

Safeties: Dean Marlowe, Tony Lezotte (Clint Kent, Eupton Jackson)

Kicker: Scott Norwood (Cameron Starke)

Punter: Nelson Garner (Gunnar Kane)

Return Specialist: Scotty McGee (Delvin Joyce)

Nice job and not sure I disagree much with your selections. Great memory.

I don't think you could go wrong with any of the 4 QBs and Vad is not too far behind. I'd go with Rascati, and then Landers. I think Rascati would of torn it up under the other coaches/systems. Landers was perfect for Mickey's offense.

Would have a hard time not finding a place for LC or Rashad.

RB: I'd replace Banks with Kenny Sims
OL: I'd have to add David Bailey on the second team, but I'm having a hard time figuring out who I would drop
WR: Earnest Peyton over Jay Jones
LB: Dion Foxx played DE, believe me, I had to attempt to block him in practice

(03-29-2017 11:44 AM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  Rashard Davis would have to be ahead of Delvin.

This was a really tough one for me. I think Rashard accomplished more during his career, but Joyce spent some time with the Giants, so that solidified his position. But it was really close.

(03-29-2017 12:29 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  RB: I'd replace Banks with Kenny Sims
OL: I'd have to add David Bailey on the second team, but I'm having a hard time figuring out who I would drop
WR: Earnest Peyton over Jay Jones
LB: Dion Foxx played DE, believe me, I had to attempt to block him in practice

I seemed to have switched Dion Foxx and Hoy. I've edited my list to reflect their accurate positions.

Why Peyton over Jones? I recall watching Jones play and he was just insanely fast. I think he's right up there on career yardage because he also returned punts/kicks etc. The only reason he didn't have higher stats is because Cawley was constantly throwing it to Brooks.

(03-29-2017 12:21 PM)Football Coach Wrote:  Clyde Hoy was a linebacker.

Fixed. I had him and Foxx switched.

(03-29-2017 12:26 PM)Dukester Wrote:  Great memory.

Nope. I'm a '99 grad, so I had to do some research on the guys before 1995 since I didn't have any first hand experience with watching them play. Guys like Hoy and Foxx are just names on a list to me, but their stats and accolades make it clear that they deserve to be in consideration.

Great list, but as a life long Buffalo Bills fan, I cannot support including Scott Norwood. I'd rather have any one else kick the ball off. With that talent, we wouldn't be kicking field goals anyway.

(03-29-2017 01:10 PM)JMUNewbill Wrote:  Great list, but as a life long Buffalo Bills fan, I cannot support including Scott Norwood. I'd rather have any one else kick the ball off. With that talent, we wouldn't be kicking field goals anyway.

As a life long Buffalo Bills fan you don't get a say on anything football related. Feel free to offer up some expert opinions once your team wins a Superbowl.

(03-29-2017 01:21 PM)chicagoduke Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 01:10 PM)JMUNewbill Wrote:  Great list, but as a life long Buffalo Bills fan, I cannot support including Scott Norwood. I'd rather have any one else kick the ball off. With that talent, we wouldn't be kicking field goals anyway.

As a life long Buffalo Bills fan you don't get a say on anything football related. Feel free to offer up some expert opinions once your team wins a Superbowl.

Burn!

(03-29-2017 01:03 PM)chicagoduke Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 12:29 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  RB: I'd replace Banks with Kenny Sims
OL: I'd have to add David Bailey on the second team, but I'm having a hard time figuring out who I would drop
WR: Earnest Peyton over Jay Jones
LB: Dion Foxx played DE, believe me, I had to attempt to block him in practice

I seemed to have switched Dion Foxx and Hoy. I've edited my list to reflect their accurate positions.

Why Peyton over Jones? I recall watching Jones play and he was just insanely fast. I think he's right up there on career yardage because he also returned punts/kicks etc. The only reason he didn't have higher stats is because Cawley was constantly throwing it to Brooks.

It's really a toss-up between the two. I played with both and thought that Peyton was better by the end of his career, but Jay was great too. His Dad was one of the nicest guys you would ever meet! He went off on the ticks in 1996 in Richmond. He returned a Kickoff for a TD and two other returns into the red zone. I think he still holds the single game record for return yards.

(03-29-2017 01:21 PM)chicagoduke Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 01:10 PM)JMUNewbill Wrote:  Great list, but as a life long Buffalo Bills fan, I cannot support including Scott Norwood. I'd rather have any one else kick the ball off. With that talent, we wouldn't be kicking field goals anyway.

As a life long Buffalo Bills fan you don't get a say on anything football related. Feel free to offer up some expert opinions once your team wins a Superbowl.

You are ohhhhhh so wrong, I like Cameron, and believe he's second to Norwood, but there has never been anyone close to Norwood as a JMU kicker. You are letting your heart over rule good sense.

To add, I'm not sure if it was the year Norwood missed the FG or the season prior to that, but he led the entire NFL in scoring one of those seasons.

Feel like Terrence Apted and Theo Sherman should be somewhere in the mix on the OL.

John Stein played safety, not CB. Evan McCullough should be there.

(03-29-2017 01:00 PM)chicagoduke Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 11:44 AM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  Rashard Davis would have to be ahead of Delvin.

This was a really tough one for me. I think Rashard accomplished more during his career, but Joyce spent some time with the Giants, so that solidified his position. But it was really close.

Davis didn't return kickoffs so Delvin had to go here #1

(03-29-2017 03:46 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 01:21 PM)chicagoduke Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 01:10 PM)JMUNewbill Wrote:  Great list, but as a life long Buffalo Bills fan, I cannot support including Scott Norwood. I'd rather have any one else kick the ball off. With that talent, we wouldn't be kicking field goals anyway.

As a life long Buffalo Bills fan you don't get a say on anything football related. Feel free to offer up some expert opinions once your team wins a Superbowl.

You are ohhhhhh so wrong, I like Cameron, and believe he's second to Norwood, but there has never been anyone close to Norwood as a JMU kicker. You are letting your heart over rule good sense.

To add, I'm not sure if it was the year Norwood missed the FG or the season prior to that, but he led the entire NFL in scoring one of those seasons.

Norwood is really one of those unfortunate metaphors for a tortured fan base not unlike Bill Buckner before the Red Sox started winning championships. That was a 46 yard FG on grass which at the time was no gimme. It's a shame because he was a very solid NFL kicker (the same way Buckner was a very solid MLB player) but the Bills fans use him as the scapegoat for their inability to win a Super Bowl.