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Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-28-2017 04:34 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 11:30 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  The BW doesn't like 11. IF Bakersfield and UCSD were added, someone else outside California would have to come along as #12. That narrows it down to New Mexico State, GCU or Seattle.

What makes you say they are against 11? To my knowledge, the only real guiding principle behind current Big West membership is that a balance is maintained between the Cal St and UC schools.

12 gives you an extra mouth to feed. 11 gives you balance and you can do a 20 game conference schedule with double round robin play.

Looks like we're both right. The BW was willing to stay at 11 when SDSU joined. Then Boise changed things up in 2012.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story...all-sports


Farrell said the Big West was willing to stay at 11 when it added SDSU but that was because the Aztecs were within the state. When Pacific left for the WCC, the league was content to be at 10 members. Farrell said if Boise State were added the league would probably go to 12.

Denver, Seattle and Cal-State Bakersfield would be interested
, although sources said Seattle and Denver as private schools would rather be in the WCC but may not have a choice right now. NMSU and Idaho would have issues with what to do with their football programs.


In its nearly 50 year history, the BW has never operated with 11 full members. If Cal State Bakersfield and UC San Diego both joined together, I believe the BW would go to 12 with one more member outside California.
03-28-2017 08:21 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-28-2017 07:02 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 04:34 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 11:30 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  The BW doesn't like 11. IF Bakersfield and UCSD were added, someone else outside California would have to come along as #12. That narrows it down to New Mexico State, GCU or Seattle.

What makes you say they are against 11? To my knowledge, the only real guiding principle behind current Big West membership is that a balance is maintained between the Cal St and UC schools.

Why is this a good "guiding principle?" Is there any issue where the two factions would disagree?

The balance between UC and CSU seems more coincidence to me. Other than Bakersfield the only other D-1 non-FBS school from either system is Sacramento State, and they seem quite happy in the Big Sky (although I could be wrong).

I never said it was a good principle but it seems to be the one they are going with. Since 2007 when UC Davis was added things have been even. In 1996 when Cal St school San Jose St left they replaced them with Cal St school Cal Poly. In 2001 they added both a UC and a Cal St.

I don't think either side wants the other to be able to outvote the other. If the UC schools were ok wth being a minority then Sacramento St would probably be a Big West school with football in the Big Sky--the same deal UC Davis and Cal Poly have.

I also think there is pact that's been going since 2005 or sooner to keep non-California schools out (unless they are going to throw in a travel subsidy like a desperate Hawaii).
03-28-2017 09:29 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-28-2017 08:21 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 04:34 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 11:30 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  The BW doesn't like 11. IF Bakersfield and UCSD were added, someone else outside California would have to come along as #12. That narrows it down to New Mexico State, GCU or Seattle.

What makes you say they are against 11? To my knowledge, the only real guiding principle behind current Big West membership is that a balance is maintained between the Cal St and UC schools.

12 gives you an extra mouth to feed. 11 gives you balance and you can do a 20 game conference schedule with double round robin play.

Looks like we're both right. The BW was willing to stay at 11 when SDSU joined. Then Boise changed things up in 2012.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story...all-sports


Farrell said the Big West was willing to stay at 11 when it added SDSU but that was because the Aztecs were within the state. When Pacific left for the WCC, the league was content to be at 10 members. Farrell said if Boise State were added the league would probably go to 12.

Denver, Seattle and Cal-State Bakersfield would be interested
, although sources said Seattle and Denver as private schools would rather be in the WCC but may not have a choice right now. NMSU and Idaho would have issues with what to do with their football programs.


In its nearly 50 year history, the BW has never operated with 11 full members. If Cal State Bakersfield and UC San Diego both joined together, I believe the BW would go to 12 with one more member outside California.

I almost forgot about that brief time when San Diego St was going to take its Olympic sports to the Big West.

While 12 works great in football leagues it's an abnormality among basketball leagues, particularly 1 bid leagues--10 gives everyone a fairly good chance at winning, convenient schedule plan, and the NCAA money only gets divided 10 ways.

They might surprise me and go to 12 but I think if you go to 12 you have to add some members that are going to help land some at large bids. I think that's why they were willing to add San Diego St and throw the Cal St UC balance off.
03-28-2017 09:52 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
If Oral Roberts didn't just go through the Southland nightmare, I bet they'd jump to the WAC in a heartbeat.

UNO will be tied to Denver and the 4 Dakota's for a long time. I think UNO prefers to associate with those schools, especially with DU/UND hockey.
03-28-2017 10:01 PM
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Policiious Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-28-2017 05:42 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 12:11 PM)Policiious Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 11:59 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 11:16 AM)Policiious Wrote:  If another program decides to leave the WAC, they will need the Cougars along with Cal Baptist in order to have enough teams to hold conference championships in some sports

Everyone in the WAC wants to be somewhere else. But they are in the WAC because nobody else wants them. And none of them are going anywhere, not even New Mexico State, for the next five years. I think in a decade you will still have these six: Seattle, Utah Valley, CS Bakersfield, Cal Baptist, Grand Canyon, UT Rio Grande Valley. There is a good chance Asuza Pacific will move up in a few years, provided football can find an FCS home (Pioneer?). That would make them safe. In the meantime neither Kansas City nor New Mexico State is going anywhere. The league is safe.

Chicago State is melting down.

For a conference with members that no other conference wants they are having a heck of a basketball season and Denver U (obvioously playing their Ice Hockey Elsewhere) is in the Frozen 4. Paul Vallas has lots of experience and had a decent track record running the CPS. When the state finally puts a budget together which likely will include some increase on annual incomes of over $1M for education, I;ll bet a significan amount of that will go to programs like Chicago State. We will see the clock is definitely ticking but if PV can do at Chicago State what he accomplished at CPS, Chicago State has a chance

DU is not in the WAC anymore. They think they're too prestigious to be playing in the WAC. They are currently sucking it up in the Summit.

Oops yes they did move conferences a couple years ago. They are prestigious in Hockey and LaCrosse which are sports that neither the WAC nor Summit offer. Travel costs for either conference would be significant but likely more for the Summit since that conference has members in Indiana which is a good distance from Denver.

Interesting that after Denver moved to the Summit, UMKC left the Summit for the WAC.
03-28-2017 10:33 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-28-2017 10:01 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If Oral Roberts didn't just go through the Southland nightmare, I bet they'd jump to the WAC in a heartbeat.

UNO will be tied to Denver and the 4 Dakota's for a long time. I think UNO prefers to associate with those schools, especially with DU/UND hockey.

UNO and the Dakotas go way back in all sports, as well as UNI and N Colo. Even Creighton and St Thomas were members in its early years.
03-28-2017 10:47 PM
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Policiious Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-28-2017 10:01 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If Oral Roberts didn't just go through the Southland nightmare, I bet they'd jump to the WAC in a heartbeat.

UNO will be tied to Denver and the 4 Dakota's for a long time. I think UNO prefers to associate with those schools, especially with DU/UND hockey.

The WAC woudl involve more traveling for ORU than what the Summit Currently does. iMO
03-28-2017 10:48 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-28-2017 10:48 PM)Policiious Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 10:01 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If Oral Roberts didn't just go through the Southland nightmare, I bet they'd jump to the WAC in a heartbeat.

UNO will be tied to Denver and the 4 Dakota's for a long time. I think UNO prefers to associate with those schools, especially with DU/UND hockey.

The WAC woudl involve more traveling for ORU than what the Summit Currently does. iMO

But the footprint is much more of a draw for recruiting students and athletes and reaching alumni.
03-28-2017 10:51 PM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
wac could tighten itself up with no ariz, so utah & some tex schools from southland
chi st figures it out, being in chi is not a bad thing
i could see sac st & oral roberts intrested, travelling dakata,s & montana in winter must be brutal
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2017 03:33 AM by templefootballfan.)
03-29-2017 03:20 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
I can't help but think that to those against CSUB in Big West, they see UCD's play-in win > CSUB's NIT Final Four run. Who cares if Davis was blown out by Kansas?
03-29-2017 05:20 AM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-29-2017 05:20 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I can't help but think that to those against CSUB in Big West, they see UCD's play-in win > CSUB's NIT Final Four run. Who cares if Davis was blown out by Kansas?

The play-in game win won cash for all the Big West teams for six years. That's the difference. But Bakersfield actually has been raising eyebrows with its attendance, something Sac St can't physically do.
03-29-2017 10:22 AM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-28-2017 10:51 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 10:48 PM)Policiious Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 10:01 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  If Oral Roberts didn't just go through the Southland nightmare, I bet they'd jump to the WAC in a heartbeat.

UNO will be tied to Denver and the 4 Dakota's for a long time. I think UNO prefers to associate with those schools, especially with DU/UND hockey.

The WAC woudl involve more traveling for ORU than what the Summit Currently does. iMO

But the footprint is much more of a draw for recruiting students and athletes and reaching alumni.

The Southland fit that bill and ORU beat it out of there pretty fast.

The majority of ORU students, by far are from Oklahoma (almost 50%) and most stay in the south central (Texas/OK) part of the country after graduation. Texas sends the second most students to ORU. Those that attend ORU from outside of the TX/OK area are normally there for two, maybe three reasons. The evangelical religion, a family member attended, or they were home schooled. ORU gives out some big scholarships to home schooled kids. I had a cousin, home schooled, evangelical family who attended ORU for free. So did her husband, who she met at ORU. Both were from the Minnesota/Northern WI area and the draw to ORU was the scholarship and the evangelical religion.

ORU is not your typical University. Anyone who has spent time there, or has family who have attended can attest to that.
03-29-2017 12:45 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-29-2017 10:22 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 05:20 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I can't help but think that to those against CSUB in Big West, they see UCD's play-in win > CSUB's NIT Final Four run. Who cares if Davis was blown out by Kansas?

The play-in game win won cash for all the Big West teams for six years. That's the difference. But Bakersfield actually has been raising eyebrows with its attendance, something Sac St can't physically do.

That's kind of my drift. Davis is this public ivy and wins one of the "best of the worst" games and this is something to behold. Meanwhile, Bakersfield was ripping through the NIT. "Good for them."
03-29-2017 12:51 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-29-2017 05:20 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I can't help but think that to those against CSUB in Big West, they see UCD's play-in win > CSUB's NIT Final Four run. Who cares if Davis was blown out by Kansas?

If CSUB brings Grand Canyon and/or NMSU along, they'll be added tomorrow 07-coffee3
03-29-2017 01:44 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-28-2017 11:30 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  The BW doesn't like 11. IF Bakersfield and UCSD were added, someone else outside California would have to come along as #12. That narrows it down to New Mexico State, GCU or Seattle.

(03-29-2017 01:44 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  If CSUB brings Grand Canyon and/or NMSU along

Good gracious.

You're that desparate, to see your one-man crusade fulfilled. You're willing .... to add Bakersfield?!?!

Now we know you're crazy! 03-rotfl
03-29-2017 07:50 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
I can't help but think if Bakersfield joined the Big West they'd camoflauge into the other UC/CSU programs rather than the New Mexico St program they've become the last couple years. WAC has a historic trademark program (NMSU) packaged with a nice assortment of destination cities/recruiting hotbeds, all while splitting the pot just 8 ways.
03-29-2017 07:57 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
I don't want UCSD, or Bakersfield to join alone. The best solution is 12.

I give CSUB credit. An NCAA Tournament bid and NIT Final Four appearance in the last two years. They have proven they can win at the D1 level. Hope they do well next year.

As an aside, in our worst year ever we split with Bakersfield.
03-29-2017 07:59 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-29-2017 07:57 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I can't help but think if Bakersfield joined the Big West they'd camoflauge into the other UC/CSU programs rather than the New Mexico St program they've become the last couple years. WAC has a historic trademark program (NMSU) packaged with a nice assortment of destination cities/recruiting hotbeds, all while splitting the pot just 8 ways.

Chicago won't be one of them, for very long!

Possibly neither UMKC (to the MVC, when Wichita St leaves for the AAC).
03-29-2017 08:45 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-29-2017 07:59 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  I don't want UCSD, or Bakersfield to join alone. The best solution is 12.

But like the previous poster said, that isn't correct.

11 allows a double round-robin with a 20 game conference schedule. In a sense, 11 is actually perfect for a non-football conference.
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2017 08:46 PM by MplsBison.)
03-29-2017 08:46 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Has Cal St Bakersfield's NIT run caught anyone's attention?
(03-29-2017 08:46 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 07:59 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  I don't want UCSD, or Bakersfield to join alone. The best solution is 12.

But like the previous poster said, that isn't correct.

11 allows a double round-robin with a 20 game conference schedule. In a sense, 11 is actually perfect for a non-football conference.
I used to think this, but how do you schedule an 11 team double round robin over 10 weeks?

(Expanding past 10 weeks being a non-starter because most mid-majors need all pre-Xmas weeks for non-con's.)
03-29-2017 09:17 PM
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