As of 2018, there will be 353 schools in Division 1. IMO, there are too many Division 1 schools. Basketball is the sport that determines what division you are in so I think it is a possible dividing point (and I don't think the P5 are going to leave the NCAA). If the top 275 or so schools (so that a 64-school tournament would be feasible) split from the others, which conferences would make the cut and which would not (let's not forget that the better programs in some of the weaker conferences would probably get upgrades)?

Who stays?
1. ACC (15)
2. Big East (10)
3. Big 12 (10)
4. B1G (14)
5. SEC (14)
6. Pac 12 (12)
7. American (11)
8. Mountain West (11)
9. MAC (12)
10. C-USA (14)
11. Sun Belt (12)
12. Ivy (8)
13. MVC (10)
14. WCC (10)
15. Atlantic 10 (14)
16. Big West (9)
17. America East (9)
18. CAA (10)
19. Horizon (10)
20. Patriot (10)
21. Summit (9)
22. Big Sky (12)
23. Southern (10)
In addition, nine other programs would make the cut: Monmouth, Iona, Quinnipiac, Murray State, Belmont, NMSU, FGCU, Winthrop, SFU, Sam Houston St.

Conferences left out (with number of schools minus indies above):
24. Atlantic Sun (7)
25. Big South (9)
26. MAAC (8)
27. MEAC (13)
28. NEC (10)
29. OVC (10)
30. Southland (11)
31. SWAC (10)
32. WAC (7)

This would result in 23 auto bids and 41 at-large bids (which means more for both the power conferences and the mid-majors).

What if it split on Cross Country lines?

Why not table tennis? Texas Wesleyan University would be a number one seed.

(03-26-2017 08:57 PM)Huskies12 Wrote:  What if it split on Cross Country lines?

And Women's Hoops?

UConn Div 1

The Rest Div 2

To answer Shizzle (I have proposed this question before here)

I think the answer is 150 teams on the low side and 250 on the high side.

Ridiculous we have schools putting 500 fans in a gym collecting a check off the tournament. I think the leagues should average about 2500 fans to be D1.

http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/f..._final.pdf

Plus, D2 schools are looking for a conference to join. There are D2 schools that put more than 3000 fans in the seats.

I think the WAC would be in the new D1. They do have some pretty decent treams and also have quite a few with decent attendance and competitiveness.

Would like a see a total paid attendance criterion. With 250 k for hockey alone, we'd be among the top of the G5.

I'd be okay with not guaranting auto-bids and instead just guaranteeing the tournament champ a spot in the NIT. The regular season champ wouldn't be granted an auto-bid but would have a much better chance of making the NCAA field with the fluke champions eliminated.

But things are fine as is. Everyone has access and the schools that should dominate do dominate. It'd be a better idea if they placed a moratorium on teams moving up or criteria needed to move up and stay in D-I.

(03-26-2017 09:10 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 08:57 PM)Huskies12 Wrote:  What if it split on Cross Country lines?

And Women's Hoops?

UConn Div 1

The Rest Div 2

The difference between UConn's WBB teams and WNBA teams is that UConn picks who they want whereas WNBA teams have to fight each other for top players.

In all honesty, I wonder what UConn's backups would be ranked if they were their own team.

(03-26-2017 09:18 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  To answer Shizzle (I have proposed this question before here)

I think the answer is 150 teams on the low side and 250 on the high side.

Ridiculous we have schools putting 500 fans in a gym collecting a check off the tournament. I think the leagues should average about 2500 fans to be D1.

http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/f..._final.pdf

I'll have you know that those 439 South Carolina State fans that show up to Bulldogs games are utterly fearless and fearsome.

(03-26-2017 08:51 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  In addition, nine other programs would make the cut: Monmouth, Iona, Quinnipiac, Murray State, Belmont, NMSU, FGCU, Winthrop, SFU, Sam Houston St.

26. MAAC (8)

So Siena has the second most MAAC championships, the highest conference attandance by far, and this year they knock Monmouth out of the tournament, then lose to Iona in overtime in the final, but you're gonna take Quinnipiac over them?

The cutline for Div 1 could be changed to 150 fully funded scholarships. It is a crying shame that some schools can be Div 1 and not even funded 100 full scholarships.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/usatoday/edi...school.pdf

(03-26-2017 08:51 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  As of 2018, there will be 353 schools in Division 1. IMO, there are too many Division 1 schools. Basketball is the sport that determines what division you are in so I think it is a possible dividing point (and I don't think the P5 are going to leave the NCAA). If the top 275 or so schools (so that a 64-school tournament would be feasible) split from the others, which conferences would make the cut and which would not (let's not forget that the better programs in some of the weaker conferences would probably get upgrades)?

Who stays?
1. ACC (15)
2. Big East (10)
3. Big 12 (10)
4. B1G (14)
5. SEC (14)
6. Pac 12 (12)
7. American (11)
8. Mountain West (11)
9. MAC (12)
10. C-USA (14)
11. Sun Belt (12)
12. Ivy (8)
13. MVC (10)
14. WCC (10)
15. Atlantic 10 (14)
16. Big West (9)
17. America East (9)
18. CAA (10)
19. Horizon (10)
20. Patriot (10)
21. Summit (9)
22. Big Sky (12)
23. Southern (10)
In addition, nine other programs would make the cut: Monmouth, Iona, Quinnipiac, Murray State, Belmont, NMSU, FGCU, Winthrop, SFU, Sam Houston St.

Conferences left out (with number of schools minus indies above):
24. Atlantic Sun (7)
25. Big South (9)
26. MAAC (8)
27. MEAC (13)
28. NEC (10)
29. OVC (10)
30. Southland (11)
31. SWAC (10)
32. WAC (7)

This would result in 23 auto bids and 41 at-large bids (which means more for both the power conferences and the mid-majors).

Its difficult to split. The OVC has been in Division I forever (most of its schools). The Southland has some pretty good size schools. The America East with schools like Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont looks Division I, but their basketball is usually awful.

MEAC, SWAC, WAC (except of course NMSU) and Big South are the only easy ones. But I do think Division I could easily do with 10 less conferences.

Are the teams that make this cut going to share the money fairly or is still going to be distributed with power 5 bias? If it fixes the greed and money disadvantage, I could get on board with cutting some leagues. If it just makes the annointed conferences fatter and greedier, then no.

(03-27-2017 07:18 AM)72Tiger Wrote:  Are the teams that make this cut going to share the money fairly or is still going to be distributed with power 5 bias? If it fixes the greed and money disadvantage, I could get on board with cutting some leagues. If it just makes the annointed conferences fatter and greedier, then no.

All I know is that with 7 more at-larges, schools like Illinois State would have a better chance of getting in. There would actually be more two-bid leagues (MWC, MVC, etc.) if they got rid of 9 conferences. Not all of the spots would be taken by P5+BE teams because the committee isn't putting a team with a 6-12 conference record in the field.
If this had happened this year, the seven teams that would have made it: Syracuse, Illinois State, Cal, Iowa, Georgia, Illinois, and Houston.

(03-27-2017 07:15 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 08:51 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  As of 2018, there will be 353 schools in Division 1. IMO, there are too many Division 1 schools. Basketball is the sport that determines what division you are in so I think it is a possible dividing point (and I don't think the P5 are going to leave the NCAA). If the top 275 or so schools (so that a 64-school tournament would be feasible) split from the others, which conferences would make the cut and which would not (let's not forget that the better programs in some of the weaker conferences would probably get upgrades)?

Who stays?
1. ACC (15)
2. Big East (10)
3. Big 12 (10)
4. B1G (14)
5. SEC (14)
6. Pac 12 (12)
7. American (11)
8. Mountain West (11)
9. MAC (12)
10. C-USA (14)
11. Sun Belt (12)
12. Ivy (8)
13. MVC (10)
14. WCC (10)
15. Atlantic 10 (14)
16. Big West (9)
17. America East (9)
18. CAA (10)
19. Horizon (10)
20. Patriot (10)
21. Summit (9)
22. Big Sky (12)
23. Southern (10)
In addition, nine other programs would make the cut: Monmouth, Iona, Quinnipiac, Murray State, Belmont, NMSU, FGCU, Winthrop, SFU, Sam Houston St.

Conferences left out (with number of schools minus indies above):
24. Atlantic Sun (7)
25. Big South (9)
26. MAAC (8)
27. MEAC (13)
28. NEC (10)
29. OVC (10)
30. Southland (11)
31. SWAC (10)
32. WAC (7)

This would result in 23 auto bids and 41 at-large bids (which means more for both the power conferences and the mid-majors).

Its difficult to split. The OVC has been in Division I forever (most of its schools). The Southland has some pretty good size schools. The America East with schools like Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont looks Division I, but their basketball is usually awful.

MEAC, SWAC, WAC (except of course NMSU) and Big South are the only easy ones. But I do think Division I could easily do with 10 less conferences.

WAC is easy to get rid of? NMSU has been good CSU-Bakersfield has gone to NCAA tournament and are a final 4 NIT team this years. GCU has sold out every game (7k) since their D1 transition started and have won 85 games in 4 years.

(03-27-2017 07:00 AM)ValleyBoy Wrote:  The cutline for Div 1 could be changed to 150 fully funded scholarships. It is a crying shame that some schools can be Div 1 and not even funded 100 full scholarships.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/usatoday/edi...school.pdf

That may come around sooner than later. Even thought the discussion was table in the short term, it was brought up what Division 1 should be and instead of the minimum of 14 sports to have it around 18 - 20 sports to qualify for D1.

(03-26-2017 08:51 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  As of 2018, there will be 353 schools in Division 1. IMO, there are too many Division 1 schools. Basketball is the sport that determines what division you are in so I think it is a possible dividing point (and I don't think the P5 are going to leave the NCAA). If the top 275 or so schools (so that a 64-school tournament would be feasible) split from the others, which conferences would make the cut and which would not (let's not forget that the better programs in some of the weaker conferences would probably get upgrades)?

Who stays?
1. ACC (15)
2. Big East (10)
3. Big 12 (10)
4. B1G (14)
5. SEC (14)
6. Pac 12 (12)
7. American (11)
8. Mountain West (11)
9. MAC (12)
10. C-USA (14)
11. Sun Belt (12)
12. Ivy (8)
13. MVC (10)
14. WCC (10)
15. Atlantic 10 (14)
16. Big West (9)
17. America East (9)
18. CAA (10)
19. Horizon (10)
20. Patriot (10)
21. Summit (9)
22. Big Sky (12)
23. Southern (10)
In addition, nine other programs would make the cut: Monmouth, Iona, Quinnipiac, Murray State, Belmont, NMSU, FGCU, Winthrop, SFU, Sam Houston St.

Conferences left out (with number of schools minus indies above):
24. Atlantic Sun (7)
25. Big South (9)
26. MAAC (8)
27. MEAC (13)
28. NEC (10)
29. OVC (10)
30. Southland (11)
31. SWAC (10)
32. WAC (7)

This would result in 23 auto bids and 41 at-large bids (which means more for both the power conferences and the mid-majors).

What's the standard for inclusion? Athletic budgets? On-court success? Academics?

Plus the OVC and possibly the MAAC would be on the sunny side of the divide. And for politics/optics, they're not removing the two HBCU conferences unless they left of their own accord for whatever reason.

So really this isn't about a split, it's about kicking out a handful of ostensibly unworthy programs or conferences. In that regard, does not having the Atlantic Sun or NEC involved really change the calculus?

Basically this plan is to take auto-bids away from 9 conferences and redistribute them to other conferences as at-large-bids. Pass.

Divisions are generally not about a single sport. I know there are exceptions, but trying to set division requirements based on a single sport wont work.