(03-25-2017 10:03 AM)GringoStarr Wrote:  I believe he had those recruits hold off signing the LOI...

They were verbal commits IIRC.

John Wall had held off signing, but was known to be coming. Cousins and Dodson (?) were signed, but had language in their LOI's that allowed them out if Cal left. Coleman stayed committed and X. Henry opted out and went to Kansas. There was one more kid signed that tried to follow Cal to UK but wasn't good enough to make the jump.

(03-25-2017 12:33 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 10:03 AM)GringoStarr Wrote:  I believe he had those recruits hold off signing the LOI...

They were verbal commits IIRC.

John Wall had held off signing, but was known to be coming. Cousins and Dodson (?) were signed, but had language in their LOI's that allowed them out if Cal left. Coleman stayed committed and X. Henry opted out and went to Kansas. There was one more kid signed that tried to follow Cal to UK but wasn't good enough to make the jump.

There was a rumor that Pastner was pushing Henry to switch to UK. Then a day later when he got the job tried to get him to stay at Memphis. I think Henry said screw it and went to Kansas.

(03-25-2017 08:50 AM)wylioats Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:26 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  No question Cal left the program in much better shape than Pastner. I simply think people were more emotionally invested in Cal. By the time Pastner left, the damage had been done and many Memphians had tuned out the Tigers and tuned into the Grizzlies.

I tend to disagree. The Grizz have been good for the city (as they should be), but the Grizz aren't the reason Tiger fans have tuned out. I have many friends who are huge Tiger fans, but also are fans of the Grizz, buying season tix to both. In my opinion, Tiger fans have tuned out over the last few years due to incompetence at all levels, from former coach (hired way too young and too inexperienced), continual drama (player discontent, along with over the top player transfers), and mounting losses, some in blowout fashion. Winning, getting ranked, and NCAA runs will again draw the large crowds as in the past. whether the Grizz are here or not. It's a known fact, Memphis supports winners in a big way, losers, not so much. There is room for both in this city. As long as they're winning they'll be supported, start losing and it's see ya.

Winning vs losing is the biggest correlation between the rise of the Grizzlies and fall of the Tigers. I would add that related to that is the extreme stability of the Grizzlies roster and core 4 vs the instability of the Tigers roster over the last 3 - 4 seasons is also a point to be looked at. College players are already limited by the 4 year eligibility structure, and we've only had a couple players make it through 4 years recently. In the past, even when the team wasn't great, at least there was a connection between the upper classmen and the fans. There was shared experience. Elliot Perry is one of the most beloved Tigers, and he won exactly 1 NCAA tourney game. But, for four years every game was an experience because of him.

I hate X for all the reasons stated by others in the previous posts. But one thing is clear. The 2010 recruits were HIS recruits. They were not MEMPHIS recruits. He was the brand and the draw for those players. For him and for them, it was NEVER about Memphis. As much as that sucks to say, it's 100% true. Will there ever be a Memphis brand again that will draw a wide array of top national recruits? I hope so, but I'm skeptical. I think I can safely say that it will not happen with another one and done coach like X. It's going to take someone with a hunger and drive to rebuild the program from the ground up (without meddling from the Powers That Be). Maybe that coach is Tubby. But it doesn't feel like it to me. Had we hired someone like Archie Miller, I would feel differently.

(03-25-2017 12:41 PM)VinnieVegas Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 12:33 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 10:03 AM)GringoStarr Wrote:  I believe he had those recruits hold off signing the LOI...

They were verbal commits IIRC.

John Wall had held off signing, but was known to be coming. Cousins and Dodson (?) were signed, but had language in their LOI's that allowed them out if Cal left. Coleman stayed committed and X. Henry opted out and went to Kansas. There was one more kid signed that tried to follow Cal to UK but wasn't good enough to make the jump.

There was a rumor that Pastner was pushing Henry to switch to UK. Then a day later when he got the job tried to get him to stay at Memphis. I think Henry said screw it and went to Kansas.

It seems like there was some bad blood between Coach Cal and Xavier's brother (CJ Henry I think) that was here Cal's last year here. Or, if not bad blood, then at least some mistrust or rumors of deception.

(03-25-2017 09:27 AM)tiger2000 Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 08:55 AM)hsvtiger Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 11:19 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 11:39 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:32 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Whaaaaaaatttttt?

For six years after Cal, all we ever heard was CAL NUKED THE PROGRAM!!!!.

(Note: I don't buy that for one second)

If you don't think Cal nuked the program, you can think it - but he left it in a pretty sorry state.

What Josh left was worse

Not sure Cal nuked the program. He just took it to UK. He had made it his program.

The "took it to UK" part is one thing that really irked me. If Cal didn't have that loaded class coming in for 2010, would they have gone as hard after Cal as they did? You could argue that they hired that 2010 class as much as they hired Cal - a 2010 class that was recruited on Memphis' time and money.

I do think that the NCAA should have a rule that at the least does not allow a player to follow a coach if the player has already signed a LOI, or even publicly committed. This would prevent a program from "hiring" players recruited to another school. Some argue that the player should be able to play for that coach still, but you can't tell me that there is only ONE coach that a player would like to play for. And, if the Coach really cares about that player, he would think twice before bailing on his current school and recruits.

My $0.02...about what it's worth!

The NCAA has that rule and it was passed not long after cal left

I believe the NCAA has actually gone the other way. They now allow kids to get out of LOI's much easier when a coach leaves. As for commits, there's no way that can be binding - for either side.

You may be thinking about the actual clause in the LOI that Cal used that is now banned.

(03-25-2017 11:03 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 09:27 AM)tiger2000 Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 08:55 AM)hsvtiger Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 11:19 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 11:39 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  If you don't think Cal nuked the program, you can think it - but he left it in a pretty sorry state.

What Josh left was worse

Not sure Cal nuked the program. He just took it to UK. He had made it his program.

The "took it to UK" part is one thing that really irked me. If Cal didn't have that loaded class coming in for 2010, would they have gone as hard after Cal as they did? You could argue that they hired that 2010 class as much as they hired Cal - a 2010 class that was recruited on Memphis' time and money.

I do think that the NCAA should have a rule that at the least does not allow a player to follow a coach if the player has already signed a LOI, or even publicly committed. This would prevent a program from "hiring" players recruited to another school. Some argue that the player should be able to play for that coach still, but you can't tell me that there is only ONE coach that a player would like to play for. And, if the Coach really cares about that player, he would think twice before bailing on his current school and recruits.

My $0.02...about what it's worth!

The NCAA has that rule and it was passed not long after cal left

I believe the NCAA has actually gone the other way. They now allow kids to get out of LOI's much easier when a coach leaves. As for commits, there's no way that can be binding - for either side.

You may be thinking about the actual clause in the LOI that Cal used that is now banned.

True

Rarely is the release not granted

(03-25-2017 08:41 AM)hsvtiger Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 08:33 AM)TubbyTime Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 08:12 AM)presskh Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 07:33 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

DAMN get over your obsession with Pastner.

NO WAY he left the program in worse shape than Cal. He did not even take the one HS recruit with him when he left. And he certainly did not talk anyone into leaving after he was gone. Cal would have taken Keelon with him just to get his kids to follow him.

I no longer hold a grudge against either but it's ridiculous to say that Calipari left the program in worse shape than Pastner. As others have stated, Calipari left a rabid and very supportive fan base, as well as a national recruiting brand - neither of which was left for Tubby. Look at it this way - if Pastner had inherited the program in its current shape, do you believe he could have immediately pulled in the 4* and 5* recruits he did, sold as many season tickets, or packed the FEF for midnight madness? If you think so, you live in a fantasy world.

Bingo!!!!!

BAM! You can argue that the starting roster that Pastner left behind was better, the state of the overall program was CRAP!

I couldn't disagree more. The state of the program was the furthest thing from CRAP. It was better then than it is now by a mile!!

(03-24-2017 07:33 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

A) DAMN get over your obsession with Pastner.

B) NO WAY he left the program in worse shape than Cal.

A) I'm not obsessed with Pastner.
B) You're wrong.

Interesting that Pete Rose is not in his respective HOF but cal is.

(03-27-2017 10:25 AM)Southaven Wrote:  Interesting that Pete Rose is not in his respective HOF but cal is.

That post makes no sense.

(03-27-2017 10:26 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 10:25 AM)Southaven Wrote:  Interesting that Pete Rose is not in his respective HOF but cal is.

That post makes no sense.

It do to me.

(03-27-2017 10:26 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 10:25 AM)Southaven Wrote:  Interesting that Pete Rose is not in his respective HOF but cal is.

That post makes no sense.

He should stick to slot cars

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

I can think of 38 reasons

Same reason you are about to hate Freeze

(03-25-2017 11:03 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 09:27 AM)tiger2000 Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 08:55 AM)hsvtiger Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 11:19 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 11:39 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  If you don't think Cal nuked the program, you can think it - but he left it in a pretty sorry state.

What Josh left was worse

Not sure Cal nuked the program. He just took it to UK. He had made it his program.

The "took it to UK" part is one thing that really irked me. If Cal didn't have that loaded class coming in for 2010, would they have gone as hard after Cal as they did? You could argue that they hired that 2010 class as much as they hired Cal - a 2010 class that was recruited on Memphis' time and money.

I do think that the NCAA should have a rule that at the least does not allow a player to follow a coach if the player has already signed a LOI, or even publicly committed. This would prevent a program from "hiring" players recruited to another school. Some argue that the player should be able to play for that coach still, but you can't tell me that there is only ONE coach that a player would like to play for. And, if the Coach really cares about that player, he would think twice before bailing on his current school and recruits.

My $0.02...about what it's worth!

The NCAA has that rule and it was passed not long after cal left

I believe the NCAA has actually gone the other way. They now allow kids to get out of LOI's much easier when a coach leaves. As for commits, there's no way that can be binding - for either side.

You may be thinking about the actual clause in the LOI that Cal used that is now banned.

Yes, "side deals" in LOIs - I remember seeing it referred to as the Calipari Rule.

(03-27-2017 11:27 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

I can think of 38 reasons

Same reason you are about to hate Freeze

Haha well the Memphis basketball program wasn't hit like everyone says Ole Miss will.

(03-27-2017 11:49 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 11:27 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

I can think of 38 reasons

Same reason you are about to hate Freeze

Haha well the Memphis basketball program wasn't hit like everyone says Ole Miss will.

The hit may not have been as bad, but we were at a much higher level, so the fall hurt.