So this isn't solely an indictment of JUST Josh Pastner....
It really is happening everywhere.

For perspective, here is the 2015-16 Transfer List per ESPN:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...nsfer-list

Quote:It's been nearly a decade now that we've been compiling transfer lists, a list that started at about 200 names in Year 1 and swelled to more than 700 last season

I roughly estimate 20% of a roster from the eligible pool (i.e., seniors completing eligibility are excluded) were lost to transfer in 2015-2016.

IMO, the transfer market is now as important as the high school ranks to stock a roster. Transfers, unlike high school kids, have a track record of performance at the D-I level.

4 transfers in a season is a one time deal for UVA.

WE DID THE MATH BEFORE - I'm not going to say that again.

Josh was 40% ahead of the national average over his career.

It was/is an indictment of Pastner.

Back to the OP, I'd easily take all 4 UVA transfers.

Have to be better than what we have.

(03-24-2017 07:37 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  IMO, the transfer market is now as important as the high school ranks to stock a roster. Transfers, unlike high school kids, have a track record of performance at the D-I level.

Yep.

Gonzaga has 3 starting - California, Washington and Missouri.

(03-24-2017 09:00 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 07:37 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  IMO, the transfer market is now as important as the high school ranks to stock a roster. Transfers, unlike high school kids, have a track record of performance at the D-I level.

Yep.

Gonzaga has 3 starting - California, Washington and Missouri.

Problem with transfers is, if you are a coach that likes to mold young men from the ground up, those aren't your kind of players.

Transfers often transfer for a reason: inability to buy into previous program, inpatient with playing time, butting heads with coaches, personal drama, or just bad at basketball.

That often, for recruiting purposes, doesn't jive with a coach who wants to get "his players" in there.

(03-24-2017 09:10 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Problem with transfers is, if you are a coach that likes to mold young men from the ground up, those aren't your kind of players.

Transfers often transfer for a reason: inability to buy into previous program, inpatient with playing time, butting heads with coaches, personal drama, or just bad at basketball.

That often, for recruiting purposes, doesn't jive with a coach who wants to get "his players" in there.

I'm certain that during the interview process Rudd and Bowen ensured that Tubby understood that Memphis was not P5 and that the recruiting game had changed and that grad transfers/standard transfers were a big market and almost vital to the success of the G5 power schools.

(03-24-2017 09:26 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:10 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Problem with transfers is, if you are a coach that likes to mold young men from the ground up, those aren't your kind of players.

Transfers often transfer for a reason: inability to buy into previous program, inpatient with playing time, butting heads with coaches, personal drama, or just bad at basketball.

That often, for recruiting purposes, doesn't jive with a coach who wants to get "his players" in there.

I'm certain that during the interview process Rudd and Bowen ensured that Tubby understood that Memphis was not P5 and that the recruiting game had changed and that grad transfers/standard transfers were a big market and almost vital to the success of the G5 power schools.

Sure the did. Because throwing out a 5 year $15 million contact to a guy making $1.7 million a year in Lubbock doesn't scream "no bargaining power at all."

I believe 17 or 18 of Josh's 40 transferred.
Roughly 40% of his players transferred.

(03-24-2017 10:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  I believe 17 or 18 of Josh's 40 transferred.
Roughly 40% of his players transferred.

Okay, and I think the national average was like 20%.

Either way, Josh was way out in front of the curve.

Calipari's reasoning for not recruiting many Memphis kids may have been the correct call...as most have handlers, friends, family that want to play coach or put negative suggestion's into a kid's ear about his supposed starting prowess, or he shouldn't be coming off the bench...etc etc

(03-24-2017 12:19 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  Calipari's reasoning for not recruiting many Memphis kids may have been the correct call...as most have handlers, friends, family that want to play coach or put negative suggestion's into a kid's ear about his supposed starting prowess, or he shouldn't be coming off the bench...etc etc

That's all well and fine, but when you can't even sign and/or develop the ones that are legit DI starters - Nichols, Skal, Stokes, Tarik, etc. - then that's on the coach.

Ain't no one complaining in the Nichols or Skal camps if he and Skal are double double machines and the team is 28-4.

Have no idea what your post has to do with the initial post though - Josh lost plenty of non-Memphis kids to transfer - Kendrick, Iverson, Carmouche, Pookie, etc.

Kuran Iverson - Starter on a tournament team
Pookie Powell - Solid player on a bad team
Nick King - Did nothing at Alabama, transferring again
Dom Woodson - Did nothing at Tennessee, left team and fell off the map
Austin Nichols - Did nothing at Virginia, kicked off team
Jelan Kendrick - Did nothing at Ole Miss, kicked off team. UNLV wasn't much better.
Dom Magee - Solid player on a bad team, transferred to Southern Miss.
Tarik Black - Role player for a great team. Solid NBA player now.
Antonio Barton - Starter for a tournament team
Charles Carmouche - Starter on a decent team
Drew Barham - Role player on a good team
Damien Wilson - Did nothing on a bad team

Randall Broddie and Avery Woodson aren't on Pastner IMO.

Of the 12, almost half have turned out to be bums. 2-3 were good players on bad teams. A couple were solid role players.

Millennials and their parents?

(03-24-2017 12:51 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Kuran Iverson - Starter on a tournament team
Pookie Powell - Solid player on a bad team
Nick King - Did nothing at Alabama, transferring again
Dom Woodson - Did nothing at Tennessee, left team and fell off the map
Austin Nichols - Did nothing at Virginia, kicked off team
Jelan Kendrick - Did nothing at Ole Miss, kicked off team. UNLV wasn't much better.
Dom Magee - Solid player on a bad team, transferred to Southern Miss.
Tarik Black - Role player for a great team. Solid NBA player now.
Antonio Barton - Starter for a tournament team
Charles Carmouche - Starter on a decent team
Drew Barham - Role player on a good team
Damien Wilson - Did nothing on a bad team

Randall Broddie and Avery Woodson aren't on Pastner IMO.

Of the 12, almost half have turned out to be bums. 2-3 were good players on bad teams. A couple were solid role players.

Interesting. Didn't know Magee transferred to USM. And Austin may or may not be on Pastner...opinions vary.