(03-21-2017 07:19 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 04:55 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Yea, Wichita's pretty clearly made up their mind that they'd join either the AAC or MWC as a non-football member if the invite was extended. I don't think there's much point in debating that.

I'm pretty sure the MWC said no to Wichita State so they only have the AAC left.

Yes, the MW said no. Probably due to the fact that want FBS football and we are not going to be a platform for that.
Now the MW will want Gonzaga if they are interested since they don't have any desire for football.

(03-21-2017 07:25 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The old Big East's problem wasn't a football/non-football split by itself; it was the fact that you eventually had an 8/8 split in voting.

One other point that often gets overlooked on this board is that when the BE went to the 8-8 format, it was built to split in a way that after 5 years, each side would have been a formal conference in the eyes of the NCAA. It was not intended to stay together. The basketball became so much greater than anyone thought that the league went past the intended expiration date.

(03-22-2017 07:15 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 07:19 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 04:55 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Yea, Wichita's pretty clearly made up their mind that they'd join either the AAC or MWC as a non-football member if the invite was extended. I don't think there's much point in debating that.

I'm pretty sure the MWC said no to Wichita State so they only have the AAC left.

Yes, the MW said no. Probably due to the fact that want FBS football and we are not going to be a platform for that.
Now the MW will want Gonzaga if they are interested since they don't have any desire for football.

Why would Gonzaga want to leave a better conference for what the MWC has become?

Which programs would you rather play in the regular season??

UNLV, New Mexico, SD St, Nevada

Portland, San Fran, Pepperdine

(03-22-2017 08:17 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2017 07:15 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 07:19 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 04:55 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Yea, Wichita's pretty clearly made up their mind that they'd join either the AAC or MWC as a non-football member if the invite was extended. I don't think there's much point in debating that.

I'm pretty sure the MWC said no to Wichita State so they only have the AAC left.

Yes, the MW said no. Probably due to the fact that want FBS football and we are not going to be a platform for that.
Now the MW will want Gonzaga if they are interested since they don't have any desire for football.

Why would Gonzaga want to leave a better conference for what the MWC has become?

What has the MWC become that the WCC has not? Over the past four seasons, the MWC has been ranked ahead of the WCC, despite the boost that Gonzaga gives the WCC. Give that boost instead to the MWC and they are clearly the superior conference.

The internet loves symmetry - more than conferences do. That being said, there is something to be said for bringing both the MWC and the AAC up to 12 members for basketball by adding Gonzaga and Wichita State, respectively. Not only do those schools improve the status of both conferences on the court, they do it while maintaining geographic sanity. These ideas are growing on me, and I'm not exactly a fan of conference expansion.

(03-22-2017 08:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Which programs would you rather play in the regular season??

UNLV, New Mexico, SD St, Nevada

Portland, San Fran, Pepperdine

the problem is- take out who you mention...

who would you rather play-
San Jose St, Wyoming, Air Force

BYU, St Mary's, Santa Clara

MWC had 1 team finish in the top 65 of RPI. WCC had 3 teams finish top 65 of RPI.

Also, why would Gonzaga want to leave for a mediocre conference when in the WCC now they have 16 units accumulated just payable next year? 14 next year, 12 following, 10, following, 8 following, 6 following, 3 following. So they have 18 million dollars that they'll be getting a good bit of that from their tourney performances.

This isn't the MWC of 5 years ago.

(03-22-2017 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-22-2017 08:17 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2017 07:15 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 07:19 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 04:55 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Yea, Wichita's pretty clearly made up their mind that they'd join either the AAC or MWC as a non-football member if the invite was extended. I don't think there's much point in debating that.

I'm pretty sure the MWC said no to Wichita State so they only have the AAC left.

Yes, the MW said no. Probably due to the fact that want FBS football and we are not going to be a platform for that.
Now the MW will want Gonzaga if they are interested since they don't have any desire for football.

Why would Gonzaga want to leave a better conference for what the MWC has become?

What has the MWC become that the WCC has not? Over the past four seasons, the MWC has been ranked ahead of the WCC, despite the boost that Gonzaga gives the WCC. Give that boost instead to the MWC and they are clearly the superior conference.

The internet loves symmetry - more than conferences do. That being said, there is something to be said for bringing both the MWC and the AAC up to 12 members for basketball by adding Gonzaga and Wichita State, respectively. Not only do those schools improve the status of both conferences on the court, they do it while maintaining geographic sanity. These ideas are growing on me, and I'm not exactly a fan of conference expansion.

That's funny, in 3 of the last 4 years in conference RPI, the WCC has been ahead of the MWC.

The MWC has become a 1 bid only conference here the last 2 years. Their champion has gotten last 2 years a 14 and a 12 seed. San Diego St last year went 25-9 and 16-2 losing in title game and didn't make the tourney.

I can see why the MWC would want it, but why would Gonzaga want it?

(03-22-2017 08:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Which programs would you rather play in the regular season??

UNLV, New Mexico, SD St, Nevada

Portland, San Fran, Pepperdine

Would they rather stay in a basketball conference or move to a football conference that plays basketball?

Also, as stated. Gonzaga would be giving up a lot of money to move to the MWC. Money they and St Mary's have earned. The MWC expands it will be UTEP first with other Texas schools next. They are not going to pick up a non-football playing school. Pretty much what their commissioner stated when WSU wanted in.

(03-22-2017 08:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  MWC had 1 team finish in the top 65 of RPI. WCC had 3 teams finish top 65 of RPI.

This year.

Come on, you know better.

(03-22-2017 08:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Also, why would Gonzaga want to leave for a mediocre conference when in the WCC now they have 16 units accumulated just payable next year? 14 next year, 12 following, 10, following, 8 following, 6 following, 3 following. So they have 18 million dollars that they'll be getting a good bit of that from their tourney performances.

Again, you're talking about transient things. So fine, wait a couple years. Or don't ... look at it as a long term investment -- there are some upfront costs.

(03-22-2017 08:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  This isn't the MWC of 5 years ago.

Right now. That's the point.

(03-22-2017 08:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2017 08:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Which programs would you rather play in the regular season??

UNLV, New Mexico, SD St, Nevada

Portland, San Fran, Pepperdine

Also, why would Gonzaga want to leave for a mediocre conference when in the WCC now they have 16 units accumulated just payable next year? 14 next year, 12 following, 10, following, 8 following, 6 following, 3 following. So they have 18 million dollars that they'll be getting a good bit of that from their tourney performances.

Great point!

Let’s not forget.....
IF them Zags did move to the MWC
IF Wichita St, VCU, & Dayton came to the AAC

The WWC, the MVC, & the A-10
would still “earn” @ least one NCAA bid
For the last 5 years,
There is a continued trend of the NCAA
in offering even “less” open bids
to non P6 schools (4 this year)

W/ Less open bids
Most G5 teams
will have to win conference tourney to get a NCAA bid

Isn’t the NCAA path, right now, easier for
WSU, Zags, & VCU to stay where they currently reside?

Plus, IF they move, they lose their NCAA credits.
Is it really worth it for these schools to move?

(03-22-2017 08:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2017 08:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Which programs would you rather play in the regular season??

UNLV, New Mexico, SD St, Nevada

Portland, San Fran, Pepperdine

the problem is- take out who you mention...

who would you rather play-
San Jose St, Wyoming, Air Force

BYU, St Mary's, Santa Clara

MWC had 1 team finish in the top 65 of RPI. WCC had 3 teams finish top 65 of RPI.

Also, why would Gonzaga want to leave for a mediocre conference when in the WCC now they have 16 units accumulated just payable next year? 14 next year, 12 following, 10, following, 8 following, 6 following, 3 following. So they have 18 million dollars that they'll be getting a good bit of that from their tourney performances.

This isn't the MWC of 5 years ago.

If Witchita State feels like it's conference is keeping it from getting the tournament seeding it feels it deserves, it makes sense for it to find a new conference. In Gonzaga's case it is 1 seed this year and a 2 seed last year. Why would they want to leave?

(03-22-2017 08:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2017 08:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Which programs would you rather play in the regular season??

UNLV, New Mexico, SD St, Nevada

Portland, San Fran, Pepperdine

the problem is- take out who you mention...

who would you rather play-
San Jose St, Wyoming, Air Force

BYU, St Mary's, Santa Clara

MWC had 1 team finish in the top 65 of RPI. WCC had 3 teams finish top 65 of RPI.

Also, why would Gonzaga want to leave for a mediocre conference when in the WCC now they have 16 units accumulated just payable next year? 14 next year, 12 following, 10, following, 8 following, 6 following, 3 following. So they have 18 million dollars that they'll be getting a good bit of that from their tourney performances.

This isn't the MWC of 5 years ago.

That's an impressive bit of cherry picking you did there. Instead, you could have said that, excluding Gonzaga (and if you are looking at it from Gonzaga's point of view you would exclude them) the WCC had 2 teams in the top 66 RPI and the MWC also had 2.

Or that the WCC had only 3 in the top 100, compared with the MWC's 6. You might have even mentioned that 4 (out of 9) of the Zags WCC conference mates are outside the top 200 in the RPI, compared with the MWC's 2 (of 11).

But those statements, while true, would not have supported your premise.

It seems to me that Gonzaga would help the MWC, and the MWC would help Gonzaga. The question is whether that's enough to overcome the fact that Gonzaga, a small, private religious school, is a better institutional and cultural fit in the WCC.

(03-22-2017 09:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-22-2017 08:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  MWC had 1 team finish in the top 65 of RPI. WCC had 3 teams finish top 65 of RPI.

This year.

Come on, you know better.

(03-22-2017 08:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Also, why would Gonzaga want to leave for a mediocre conference when in the WCC now they have 16 units accumulated just payable next year? 14 next year, 12 following, 10, following, 8 following, 6 following, 3 following. So they have 18 million dollars that they'll be getting a good bit of that from their tourney performances.

Again, you're talking about transient things. So fine, wait a couple years. Or don't ... look at it as a long term investment -- there are some upfront costs.

(03-22-2017 08:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  This isn't the MWC of 5 years ago.

Right now. That's the point.

But is it moving just for moving sakes? There is absolutely no guarantee the MWC is going to be good. I mean, San Diego St could easily go into the tank even more when Fisher leaves. UNLV is not what it used to be. New Mexico isn't what it used to be. If you stuck a gun to my head and who would be the best team outside of Gonzaga in either conference, I would say BYU. And BYU isn't going to the MWC. And frankly 2nd team would be St Mary's.

This may not be the MWC of five years ago, but the resources are there to make that happen. The MWC is much more likely to get three teams in the dance consistently than the WCC (which would require a tourney champ upset).

UNLV and UNM (the historic flagships) are rebounding from coaching changes and should be back to their old selves soon enough.

Nevada, SDSU, Utah State, and even Colorado State form a much stronger collection than the WCC's middle programs. All one has to look at is the last time MWC teams went to the dance vs. WCC teams. It's clear the MWC is a more competitive league top to bottom.

Makes sense for WSU for the short term...but does anyone actually think Cincy/UCONN are in the AAC forever?

I guess they could always move again once that domino falls

(03-22-2017 07:05 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  A little over a decade ago the MVC had mastered the art of scheduling and was a multi bid league. What happened?

The MVC had a scheduling mandate that required something like a non-con SOS of 150 or better. I might be slightly off on the details, but it was something like this. If a school failed to reach that, they didn't get their part of conference monies. After the success of that period, they dropped the mandate and too many schools decided to schedule for easy wins instead of trying to make post season and played half of the SWAC every year. A couple of schools, like Wichita and UNI, continued to try and schedule for March. Others scheduled for wins.

Evansville just extended a coach that has been there 10 years and I'm not sure they've even played in an NIT. But they'd won 20 games for a few years in a row because they play nobodies. When Jank was at Illinois State it didn't matter how much talent he had, he refused to play anyone because his only desire was to inflate his win totals so he could bounce as soon as possible.

There's simply not a commitment from at least half the conference to be anything more than they are. We've had schools bragging about CBI or CIT games.... That says a lot.

(03-22-2017 09:27 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-22-2017 08:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2017 08:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Which programs would you rather play in the regular season??

UNLV, New Mexico, SD St, Nevada

Portland, San Fran, Pepperdine

the problem is- take out who you mention...

who would you rather play-
San Jose St, Wyoming, Air Force

BYU, St Mary's, Santa Clara

MWC had 1 team finish in the top 65 of RPI. WCC had 3 teams finish top 65 of RPI.

Also, why would Gonzaga want to leave for a mediocre conference when in the WCC now they have 16 units accumulated just payable next year? 14 next year, 12 following, 10, following, 8 following, 6 following, 3 following. So they have 18 million dollars that they'll be getting a good bit of that from their tourney performances.

This isn't the MWC of 5 years ago.

That's an impressive bit of cherry picking you did there. Instead, you could have said that, excluding Gonzaga (and if you are looking at it from Gonzaga's point of view you would exclude them) the WCC had 2 teams in the top 66 RPI and the MWC also had 2.

Or that the WCC had only 3 in the top 100, compared with the MWC's 6. You might have even mentioned that 4 (out of 9) of the Zags WCC conference mates are outside the top 200 in the RPI, compared with the MWC's 2 (of 11).

But those statements, while true, would not have supported your premise.

It seems to me that Gonzaga would help the MWC, and the MWC would help Gonzaga. The question is whether that's enough to overcome the fact that Gonzaga, a small, private religious school, is a better institutional and cultural fit in the WCC.

How much help does Gonzaga need? In the last five years they've been a 1 seed twice and a 2 seed once?

(03-22-2017 09:47 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  Makes sense for WSU for the short term...but does anyone actually think Cincy/UCONN are in the AAC forever?

I guess they could always move again once that domino falls

If it were up to those schools, no. But then, as a practical matter, it isn't really up to them if no P5 conference invites them.

To illustrate my point, one would have to go back to 2008 for a school outside Gonzaga, St. Mary's, or BYU to make a tournament appearance from the WCC. In 2008 San Diego went dancing because of an upset victory in the conference tournament. Before that? San Diego once again with an upset victory... in 2003! The BYU addition was a great move by the WCC to try and strengthen their profile.

Let's compare that to the MWC:

Just going back to 2015, Nevada, SDSU, Fresno State, Boise State, Wyoming. 2014, add UNM. 2013, add UNLV and Colorado State.

I rest my case.

(03-22-2017 09:47 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  Makes sense for WSU for the short term...but does anyone actually think Cincy/UCONN are in the AAC forever?

I guess they could always move again once that domino falls

Here's the thing though. AAC even minus Cincy and UConn still light years better than MVC.