(03-20-2017 05:49 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  USF (improving)

I don't know about USF improving in basketball. They just hired Brian Gregory from Georgia Tech. If any thing they just made a statement that they don't care about being competitive in basketball. They just want high APR ratings and good citizens off the field.

(03-20-2017 05:49 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  I don't oppose the Wichita State to the AAC move rumor at all... I think in many ways it helps both them and the league significantly.

If Wichita State can attract a pretty good crowd from their current home conference lineup, I ask myself what their fans reaction be if for example their opponents all of a sudden are these -

UConn Cincinnati Memphis Temple SMU Houston (I know long ways to go in mirroring it's great rich history but may have finally be turning the corner, competitiveness wise.)

Tulsa (improving)
UCF (improving)
USF (improving)

I like it

You wouldn't really see a change in attendance as we pretty much sell out every game as is. But there would be a hell of a lot more excitement for those games. Winning is fun, but winning by an average of 20 points makes things pretty boring.

If you're ECU, USF, or UCF, adding another western team can help cut down on travel.

(03-20-2017 08:21 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 06:30 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 06:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the goal is to establish the American as the clear top conference outside of the big 6 than you can't let Dayton and VCU stay in the Atlantic 10.

Agreed ... but now you're causing the same football vs basketball struggle that sunk the original Big East.

Thinking the big football programs in AAC don't want more than one non-G5 established football school invited.

Not a good comparison. The Big East schools are for the most part private schools who a ton of tradition in basketball. Dayton and Wichita are great programs but they are no Nova.....

Think CUSA 1.0. 4 non-FB schools. None of the issues of the BE.

(03-21-2017 01:36 PM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(03-20-2017 08:21 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 06:30 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 06:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the goal is to establish the American as the clear top conference outside of the big 6 than you can't let Dayton and VCU stay in the Atlantic 10.

Agreed ... but now you're causing the same football vs basketball struggle that sunk the original Big East.

Thinking the big football programs in AAC don't want more than one non-G5 established football school invited.

Not a good comparison. The Big East schools are for the most part private schools who a ton of tradition in basketball. Dayton and Wichita are great programs but they are no Nova.....

Think CUSA 1.0. 4 non-FB schools. None of the issues of the BE.

Or the Sunbelt. They currently have two non-football members. You never hear anything about how they are "creating division" or havoc in the Sun Belt.

I think as long as the non-football schools represent a very small voting minority---I don't think its going to be an issue.

(03-20-2017 06:55 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(03-20-2017 05:49 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  I don't oppose the Wichita State to the AAC move rumor at all... I think in many ways it helps both them and the league significantly.

If Wichita State can attract a pretty good crowd from their current home conference lineup, I ask myself what their fans reaction be if for example their opponents all of a sudden are these -

UConn Cincinnati Memphis Temple SMU Houston (I know long ways to go in mirroring it's great rich history but may have finally be turning the corner, competitiveness wise.)

Tulsa (improving)
UCF (improving)
USF (improving)

I like it

You wouldn't really see a change in attendance as we pretty much sell out every game as is. But there would be a hell of a lot more excitement for those games. Winning is fun, but winning by an average of 20 points makes things pretty boring.

You could afford to lose 2-3 more conference games and still make the tournament.

That's the big difference.

Plus a superior TV package in the AAC with some OTA regular season basketball games.

(03-21-2017 02:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 01:36 PM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(03-20-2017 08:21 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 06:30 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 06:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the goal is to establish the American as the clear top conference outside of the big 6 than you can't let Dayton and VCU stay in the Atlantic 10.

Agreed ... but now you're causing the same football vs basketball struggle that sunk the original Big East.

Thinking the big football programs in AAC don't want more than one non-G5 established football school invited.

Not a good comparison. The Big East schools are for the most part private schools who a ton of tradition in basketball. Dayton and Wichita are great programs but they are no Nova.....

Think CUSA 1.0. 4 non-FB schools. None of the issues of the BE.

Or the Sunbelt. They currently have two non-football members. You never hear anything about how they are "creating division" or havoc in the Sun Belt.

I think as long as the non-football schools represent a very small voting minority---I don't think its going to be an issue.

If you're right, and WSU will basically be a hopelessly out-voted minority, then you have to wonder why Wichita State would want to join a conference (the AAC) in which the vast majority of schools have a different focus (football) and where therefore their concerns will never carry the day?

Yes, the AAC makes more money than the MVC, but since the lion's share of that money is for football, they won't get a cut of it. They also already are well-situated for the tournament, as they've made it from the MVC for several straight years.

Probably a tough decision to make, if they do get an invite. Maybe I'm wrong, I wonder what WSU fans think?

I'm not a Wichita fan but they are a school not afraid to put money where their mouth is when it comes to basketball.

Would they do well in a P5 conference behind blue blood programs, probably not but in the AAC where have the conference has terrible hoops they will excel.

I said it before; time and time again schools with Top 20 basketball programs be it Butler, Xavier, VCU ect. have continued it in the new conference.

The same has applied to football Boise State (WAC to MWC), TCU (MWC to B12), Louisville (AAC to ACC), Utah (MWC to PAC) for the most part too. When you have a product that is good enough to be in the Top 20 it will probably be in the Top 20 anywhere.

I don't see how the AAC could go wrong with Wichita. They aren't a flash in the pan like George Mason was.

(03-21-2017 03:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 02:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 01:36 PM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(03-20-2017 08:21 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 06:30 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Agreed ... but now you're causing the same football vs basketball struggle that sunk the original Big East.

Thinking the big football programs in AAC don't want more than one non-G5 established football school invited.

Not a good comparison. The Big East schools are for the most part private schools who a ton of tradition in basketball. Dayton and Wichita are great programs but they are no Nova.....

Think CUSA 1.0. 4 non-FB schools. None of the issues of the BE.

Or the Sunbelt. They currently have two non-football members. You never hear anything about how they are "creating division" or havoc in the Sun Belt.

I think as long as the non-football schools represent a very small voting minority---I don't think its going to be an issue.

If you're right, and WSU will basically be a hopelessly out-voted minority, then you have to wonder why Wichita State would want to join a conference (the AAC) in which the vast majority of schools have a different focus (football) and where therefore their concerns will never carry the day?

Yes, the AAC makes more money than the MVC, but since the lion's share of that money is for football, they won't get a cut of it. They also already are well-situated for the tournament, as they've made it from the MVC for several straight years.

Probably a tough decision to make, if they do get an invite. Maybe I'm wrong, I wonder what WSU fans think?

lol...because its not binary. You can want good football AND good basketball. There really are not that many times where a leagues football is a problem for the leagues basketball. The Big East began as a small, low travel, eastern,

Its also NOT a tough decision for Wichita---they have already made it. They are just waiting for an invite. Hell, that's all the football talk was about. They thought they might have to restart football to get to a better conference.

First---its a misnomer to think its completely about basketball for Wichita. In fact, its their publicly announced desire to change to a conference that is dominated by research universities that are ranked as high or higher than Wichita. Secondly, they want a better TV package. Finally, they, just like the better teams in the AAC, see that conferences with one or two good teams are going to be one bid conferences in the future.

Its becoming obvious that the best non-power basketball programs will need to congregate in one or two conferences in order to maintain the schedule strength, respect, and RPI necessary to win at large bids in the future.

The Big East has shown the way.

That's why I think its in the AAC's interest to understand the trend and get in front of it. Add Wichita, VCU, and maybe Dayton. Create a solid core of schools that will always be competing for an NCAA bid. This core will provide the schedule strength to make any of the top teams bid worthy. Meanwhile the organic improvement in the conferences middle tier will insure the AAC is a very powerful basketball league that is a solid platform to vie for an at large NCAA bid.

AAC to 14 w/ Wichita St, VCU, Dayton

WCC to 14 w/ SDSU, Boise St, UNLV, New Mexico

That would pretty much take care of the multibid problem, IMO.

(03-21-2017 03:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 02:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 01:36 PM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(03-20-2017 08:21 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 06:30 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Agreed ... but now you're causing the same football vs basketball struggle that sunk the original Big East.

Thinking the big football programs in AAC don't want more than one non-G5 established football school invited.

Not a good comparison. The Big East schools are for the most part private schools who a ton of tradition in basketball. Dayton and Wichita are great programs but they are no Nova.....

Think CUSA 1.0. 4 non-FB schools. None of the issues of the BE.

Or the Sunbelt. They currently have two non-football members. You never hear anything about how they are "creating division" or havoc in the Sun Belt.

I think as long as the non-football schools represent a very small voting minority---I don't think its going to be an issue.

If you're right, and WSU will basically be a hopelessly out-voted minority, then you have to wonder why Wichita State would want to join a conference (the AAC) in which the vast majority of schools have a different focus (football) and where therefore their concerns will never carry the day?

Yes, the AAC makes more money than the MVC, but since the lion's share of that money is for football, they won't get a cut of it. They also already are well-situated for the tournament, as they've made it from the MVC for several straight years.

Probably a tough decision to make, if they do get an invite. Maybe I'm wrong, I wonder what WSU fans think?

It's not a tough decision at all. The MVC is an anchor around Wichita right now. Had we not won the conference tournament this year we may have been left out. In the MVC, postseason aspirations are pretty much dependent upon what we do in November and early December. January to March can only cause us harm. And when you have a very young team like we did this year, November is tough.

The AAC allows us to have good games in Jan and Feb and losing a couple of games isn't a death sentence to post season desires.

Yea, Wichita's pretty clearly made up their mind that they'd join either the AAC or MWC as a non-football member if the invite was extended. I don't think there's much point in debating that.

(03-21-2017 04:22 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  AAC to 14 w/ Wichita St, VCU, Dayton

WCC to 14 w/ SDSU, Boise St, UNLV, New Mexico

That would pretty much take care of the multibid problem, IMO.

Where would SDSU, Boise, UNLV and New Mexico put their football teams if they joined the WCC?

(03-21-2017 05:26 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 04:22 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  AAC to 14 w/ Wichita St, VCU, Dayton

WCC to 14 w/ SDSU, Boise St, UNLV, New Mexico

That would pretty much take care of the multibid problem, IMO.

Where would SDSU, Boise, UNLV and New Mexico put their football teams if they joined the WCC?

WCC also adds Air Force (all sports) and Hawaii (football only) and the WCC becomes a 7-team football conference and 15-team basketball conference.

BYU agrees to a 6-game football conference schedule that includes Boise St., Air Force, Hawaii, and SDSU....and each school has room for as many OOC P5 games as they can handle. The WCC lands two bowl bids against P5 opponents (Las Vegas and Armed Forces) plus Hawaii and Idaho Potato bowls.

(03-21-2017 04:55 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Yea, Wichita's pretty clearly made up their mind that they'd join either the AAC or MWC as a non-football member if the invite was extended. I don't think there's much point in debating that.

I'm pretty sure the MWC said no to Wichita State so they only have the AAC left.

The old Big East's problem wasn't a football/non-football split by itself; it was the fact that you eventually had an 8/8 split in voting. On one hand, you had Syracuse, Pittsburgh, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville and USF, and on the other, you had Notre Dame, Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, Providence, St. Johns, Marquette and DePaul.

When ever it came time to expansion - i.e. East Carolina, UCF, Memphis, Temple, etc. - you would always have universal disagreement with regards to separate beliefs for the conference. The C8 would never allow East Carolina or UCF in as full members due to lower basketball prestige; the Football-8 would never allow in Memphis or Temple due to, at the time, lower football prestige. Neither side wanted to give the other a higher voting right than the other, thus the long standstill from 2005-2013.

As previously mentioned, C-USA made it work for a number of years, quite effectively, with Charlotte, DePaul, Marquette, Saint Louis, and USF (until they joined FBS) as non-football members, coupled with Cincinnati, Louisville, Southern Mississippi, UAB, Houston, Tulane, TCU and Memphis.

Wichita State, by itself, will not disrupt the functionality or purpose of the American. Even if Dayton and VCU were included as well, those three would not be able to disrupt the vision and future of the league either. It's a strong add, plain and simple (and overdue, IMO).

No the problem with the Big East is its reason for existence was hoops. Football was added as a tack on with several football only members to address needs of members with FBS football. Then it reached a point where they were adding members detrimental to the hoops mission. Just as Big West hoops members eventually blocked adding new members playing football that didn't fit their vision.
The final straw was promising to go from splitting tv 2/3rds hoops 1/3rd football to talking of 70% football 30% hoops. If that had been the figure the hoops members end up worse off.
Sun Belt doesn't have an issue because UT-Arlington and UA-Little Rock can't block anything alone and Sun Belt better meets their needs than the alternatives.

(03-21-2017 05:26 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 04:22 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  AAC to 14 w/ Wichita St, VCU, Dayton

WCC to 14 w/ SDSU, Boise St, UNLV, New Mexico

That would pretty much take care of the multibid problem, IMO.

Where would SDSU, Boise, UNLV and New Mexico put their football teams if they joined the WCC?

With that many teams leaving the Mountain West, there'd be a viable block of independents. The five WCC FBS teams could take care of each other the last month of the season. Hawaii might even ditch the Mountain West as well.

With the Mountain West potentially down to 7 full members, it either would need Hawaii as a full member, New Mexico State, Idaho, or a school from FCS.

Saint Louis leaves the A-10 for the MVC. The A-10 adds UNC Wilmington and the CAA adds UNC Greensboro.

(03-21-2017 04:48 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 03:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 02:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 01:36 PM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(03-20-2017 08:21 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Not a good comparison. The Big East schools are for the most part private schools who a ton of tradition in basketball. Dayton and Wichita are great programs but they are no Nova.....

Think CUSA 1.0. 4 non-FB schools. None of the issues of the BE.

Or the Sunbelt. They currently have two non-football members. You never hear anything about how they are "creating division" or havoc in the Sun Belt.

I think as long as the non-football schools represent a very small voting minority---I don't think its going to be an issue.

If you're right, and WSU will basically be a hopelessly out-voted minority, then you have to wonder why Wichita State would want to join a conference (the AAC) in which the vast majority of schools have a different focus (football) and where therefore their concerns will never carry the day?

Yes, the AAC makes more money than the MVC, but since the lion's share of that money is for football, they won't get a cut of it. They also already are well-situated for the tournament, as they've made it from the MVC for several straight years.

Probably a tough decision to make, if they do get an invite. Maybe I'm wrong, I wonder what WSU fans think?

It's not a tough decision at all. The MVC is an anchor around Wichita right now. Had we not won the conference tournament this year we may have been left out. In the MVC, postseason aspirations are pretty much dependent upon what we do in November and early December. January to March can only cause us harm. And when you have a very young team like we did this year, November is tough.

The AAC allows us to have good games in Jan and Feb and losing a couple of games isn't a death sentence to post season desires.

OK, I'll take your word for it because your a WSU supporter.

A little over a decade ago the MVC had mastered the art of scheduling and was a multi bid league. What happened?