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2016 NCAA Athletic Department Revenue for the P5 and the next 15 Highest G5
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #11
RE: 2016 NCAA Athletic Department Revenue for the P5 and the next 15 Highest G5
(03-18-2017 10:49 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 09:58 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 09:34 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 06:01 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 05:26 PM)JRsec Wrote:  You will of course note that even if the Big 10 gets their 5 million dollar increase in TV revenue (more like 3.5) that they keep hollering about they will still be almost 8 million per school average lower than the SEC schools in total revenue.

It also means that should we expand out of the Big 12 we have to have either Texas or Oklahoma to make a second school from that group at 90 million work. Just some food for thought. It also means that Florida State is now the only prospect from the ACC that pays their way, although I'm sure we would make an exception for either of the Virginia Schools (UVA preferable) or for U.N.C. but both of those are doubtful unless the ACCN thing doesn't pan out.

Actually what it means is that the SEC is in the best position to add any school and still be making as much or more than any other conference.
Who is to say that the other schools in the SEC wouldn't give up a million or two to get other advantages for their conference.
I'm still looking for Texas to move to the ACC with either TCU or Baylor, or be traded to the PAC for "considerations".

Or just add no one and make even more.

If we can't land the ones we want then we probably do nothing, but if we went crazy and said we have to do something then might as well go for projects in new markets. There's absolutely no need to take Big 12 schools that don't pad our bottom line.

In the long term, 14 is awkward for scheduling. 15 or 16 work much better, the only way the SEC or any conference stays at 14 is if the Big 12 survives past the GOR expiration.

That in and of itself is not a reason to expand with schools that don't really help.

Anyway, I find it hard to believe that a league with the economic might of the SEC will have to pick over scraps.

We won't. Our schools are averaging almost 20 million more than most Big 12 schools and 24 million more than ACC schools. That's why we annoy the hell out of all the other conference posters. Florida State could pay 100,000 million to walk away from the ACC and make it up in 4 years.

It won't happen that way because of ESPN but we have a tremendous amount of clout.

On top of that I wouldn't be absolutely convinced that Texas would rule us out. If OU came our way it would make for a compelling reason for Texas to consider it.

Arkansas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and L.S.U. on their annual schedule would be hard to ignore. Even Missouri is a renewal for them. Plus if Alabama and Auburn head East it gives them essentially their own very regional division.

And since Texas is all about the money, well then there's that too. ESPN would be happy just to have them in the fold.
03-19-2017 12:36 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #12
RE: 2016 NCAA Athletic Department Revenue for the P5 and the next 15 Highest G5
(03-19-2017 12:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 10:49 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 09:58 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 09:34 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 06:01 PM)XLance Wrote:  Actually what it means is that the SEC is in the best position to add any school and still be making as much or more than any other conference.
Who is to say that the other schools in the SEC wouldn't give up a million or two to get other advantages for their conference.
I'm still looking for Texas to move to the ACC with either TCU or Baylor, or be traded to the PAC for "considerations".

Or just add no one and make even more.

If we can't land the ones we want then we probably do nothing, but if we went crazy and said we have to do something then might as well go for projects in new markets. There's absolutely no need to take Big 12 schools that don't pad our bottom line.

In the long term, 14 is awkward for scheduling. 15 or 16 work much better, the only way the SEC or any conference stays at 14 is if the Big 12 survives past the GOR expiration.

That in and of itself is not a reason to expand with schools that don't really help.

Anyway, I find it hard to believe that a league with the economic might of the SEC will have to pick over scraps.

We won't. Our schools are averaging almost 20 million more than most Big 12 schools and 24 million more than ACC schools. That's why we annoy the hell out of all the other conference posters. Florida State could pay 100,000 million to walk away from the ACC and make it up in 4 years.

It won't happen that way because of ESPN but we have a tremendous amount of clout.

On top of that I wouldn't be absolutely convinced that Texas would rule us out. If OU came our way it would make for a compelling reason for Texas to consider it.

Arkansas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and L.S.U. on their annual schedule would be hard to ignore. Even Missouri is a renewal for them. Plus if Alabama and Auburn head East it gives them essentially their own very regional division.

And since Texas is all about the money, well then there's that too. ESPN would be happy just to have them in the fold.

Do you mean something like this?

66 teams, two conferences with three divisions of 11.


SEC/PAC/Big 12

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Auburn, Alabama, Mississippi, Miss. State and West Virginia

Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, LSU, Colorado, BYU

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, California, Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah


ACC/B1G

Purdue, Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, Louisville, Ohio State Michigan, Michigan State

Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri

Maryland, UVa, Va. Tech, Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest, Dook, Clemson, Ga. Tech, Florida State, and Miami


I just shows that there is more than on way to skin a cat. I don't have the where-with-all to project numbers for this type of division, but it could be substantial. The biggest down side is that the your three divisions have most of the better football schools.

Things are like molasses but moving quickly at the same time. If ESPN's projections are correct, the ACC will get mega increases even in a declining market for them. The prognosis for the Big 12 is questionable and the projections for the PAC are all over the board.
It still come down to what Texas wants or will agree to. The easiest thing would be for Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State to run off to the PAC, but there are no guarantees of competitive income and I don't see Texas and Oklahoma buying a pig in a poke.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2017 06:51 AM by XLance.)
03-19-2017 06:29 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #13
RE: 2016 NCAA Athletic Department Revenue for the P5 and the next 15 Highest G5
(03-19-2017 06:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-19-2017 12:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 10:49 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 09:58 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 09:34 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Or just add no one and make even more.

If we can't land the ones we want then we probably do nothing, but if we went crazy and said we have to do something then might as well go for projects in new markets. There's absolutely no need to take Big 12 schools that don't pad our bottom line.

In the long term, 14 is awkward for scheduling. 15 or 16 work much better, the only way the SEC or any conference stays at 14 is if the Big 12 survives past the GOR expiration.

That in and of itself is not a reason to expand with schools that don't really help.

Anyway, I find it hard to believe that a league with the economic might of the SEC will have to pick over scraps.

We won't. Our schools are averaging almost 20 million more than most Big 12 schools and 24 million more than ACC schools. That's why we annoy the hell out of all the other conference posters. Florida State could pay 100,000 million to walk away from the ACC and make it up in 4 years.

It won't happen that way because of ESPN but we have a tremendous amount of clout.

On top of that I wouldn't be absolutely convinced that Texas would rule us out. If OU came our way it would make for a compelling reason for Texas to consider it.

Arkansas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and L.S.U. on their annual schedule would be hard to ignore. Even Missouri is a renewal for them. Plus if Alabama and Auburn head East it gives them essentially their own very regional division.

And since Texas is all about the money, well then there's that too. ESPN would be happy just to have them in the fold.

Do you mean something like this?

66 teams, two conferences with three divisions of 11.


SEC/PAC/Big 12

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Auburn, Alabama, Mississippi, Miss. State and West Virginia

Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, LSU, Colorado, BYU

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, California, Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah


ACC/B1G

Purdue, Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, Louisville, Ohio State Michigan, Michigan State

Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri

Maryland, UVa, Va. Tech, Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest, Dook, Clemson, Ga. Tech, Florida State, and Miami


I just shows that there is more than on way to skin a cat. I don't have the where-with-all to project numbers for this type of division, but it could be substantial. The biggest down side is that the your three divisions have most of the better football schools.

Things are like molasses but moving quickly at the same time. If ESPN's projections are correct, the ACC will get mega increases even in a declining market for them. The prognosis for the Big 12 is questionable and the projections for the PAC are all over the board.
It still come down to what Texas wants or will agree to. The easiest thing would be for Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State to run off to the PAC, but there are no guarantees of competitive income and I don't see Texas and Oklahoma buying a pig in a poke.

I think that culturally the PAC would prefer the merger with the Big 10.

The highest projections for the ACCN put give you a 10 million bump in TV payout over 4 or 5 years after the network is up and running. That, if the SEC remains static, would bring you within 13 million of the overall revenue distributions of the SEC. And while less of a pig in the poke than the PAC it is still not guaranteed.

I don't see conferences getting bigger than 20-24. If it is ever a league 32-36 schools then we will have multiple divisions. The ACC will remain intact even if absorbed into a league or larger conference. You would simply become a more regional division of 6-8 schools.

I think for our present structure the best possible outcome to achieve some balance would be for Texa-homa to head West. But economically and without PACN capitulation I don't see that happening either.

The best possible outcome for the ACC right now would be the old deal. Give up Virginia Tech and N.C. State to the SEC. Add Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas and let ESPN hold Notre Dame accountable for joining in full. Miami can play in a 1/2 division with Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas and that gives the Horns an annual game with a Florida School. Miami has to fly everywhere but Tallahassee anyway, and they probably fly there.

A move like that enhances the value of the ACCN, just like it would have done in 2011-2. The SECN gets enhanced coverage, but the SEC doesn't add schools that are hyper-competitive or which significantly increase it's value. The Big 10 is then essentially cut off targets that could enhance their value. If they form a union with the PAC then we do the same.
03-19-2017 10:09 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #14
RE: 2016 NCAA Athletic Department Revenue for the P5 and the next 15 Highest G5
(03-19-2017 10:09 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-19-2017 06:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-19-2017 12:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 10:49 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 09:58 PM)XLance Wrote:  In the long term, 14 is awkward for scheduling. 15 or 16 work much better, the only way the SEC or any conference stays at 14 is if the Big 12 survives past the GOR expiration.

That in and of itself is not a reason to expand with schools that don't really help.

Anyway, I find it hard to believe that a league with the economic might of the SEC will have to pick over scraps.

We won't. Our schools are averaging almost 20 million more than most Big 12 schools and 24 million more than ACC schools. That's why we annoy the hell out of all the other conference posters. Florida State could pay 100,000 million to walk away from the ACC and make it up in 4 years.

It won't happen that way because of ESPN but we have a tremendous amount of clout.

On top of that I wouldn't be absolutely convinced that Texas would rule us out. If OU came our way it would make for a compelling reason for Texas to consider it.

Arkansas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and L.S.U. on their annual schedule would be hard to ignore. Even Missouri is a renewal for them. Plus if Alabama and Auburn head East it gives them essentially their own very regional division.

And since Texas is all about the money, well then there's that too. ESPN would be happy just to have them in the fold.

Do you mean something like this?

66 teams, two conferences with three divisions of 11.


SEC/PAC/Big 12

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Auburn, Alabama, Mississippi, Miss. State and West Virginia

Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, LSU, Colorado, BYU

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, California, Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah


ACC/B1G

Purdue, Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, Louisville, Ohio State Michigan, Michigan State

Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri

Maryland, UVa, Va. Tech, Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest, Dook, Clemson, Ga. Tech, Florida State, and Miami


I just shows that there is more than on way to skin a cat. I don't have the where-with-all to project numbers for this type of division, but it could be substantial. The biggest down side is that the your three divisions have most of the better football schools.

Things are like molasses but moving quickly at the same time. If ESPN's projections are correct, the ACC will get mega increases even in a declining market for them. The prognosis for the Big 12 is questionable and the projections for the PAC are all over the board.
It still come down to what Texas wants or will agree to. The easiest thing would be for Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State to run off to the PAC, but there are no guarantees of competitive income and I don't see Texas and Oklahoma buying a pig in a poke.

I think that culturally the PAC would prefer the merger with the Big 10.

The highest projections for the ACCN put give you a 10 million bump in TV payout over 4 or 5 years after the network is up and running. That, if the SEC remains static, would bring you within 13 million of the overall revenue distributions of the SEC. And while less of a pig in the poke than the PAC it is still not guaranteed.

I don't see conferences getting bigger than 20-24. If it is ever a league 32-36 schools then we will have multiple divisions. The ACC will remain intact even if absorbed into a league or larger conference. You would simply become a more regional division of 6-8 schools.

I think for our present structure the best possible outcome to achieve some balance would be for Texa-homa to head West. But economically and without PACN capitulation I don't see that happening either.

The best possible outcome for the ACC right now would be the old deal. Give up Virginia Tech and N.C. State to the SEC. Add Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas and let ESPN hold Notre Dame accountable for joining in full. Miami can play in a 1/2 division with Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas and that gives the Horns an annual game with a Florida School. Miami has to fly everywhere but Tallahassee anyway, and they probably fly there.

A move like that enhances the value of the ACCN, just like it would have done in 2011-2. The SECN gets enhanced coverage, but the SEC doesn't add schools that are hyper-competitive or which significantly increase it's value. The Big 10 is then essentially cut off targets that could enhance their value. If they form a union with the PAC then we do the same.

Our internal projections show less than a 10% differential.
03-19-2017 12:22 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #15
RE: 2016 NCAA Athletic Department Revenue for the P5 and the next 15 Highest G5
The best possible outcome for the ACC right now would be the old deal. Give up Virginia Tech and N.C. State to the SEC. Add Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas and let ESPN hold Notre Dame accountable for joining in full.

No, our best possible outcome would be for Texas and one other Texas school (Balyor or TCU) to join the ACC. The market model works for the ACC here in that it puts the ACCN in an additional 8 million homes which would be like adding an additional North Carolina, Virginia and South Carolina.
Oklahoma actually holds little value to the ACC because of limited population (the same goes for Kansas). We need good market penetration and exposure to establish our brand.
The content value of Oklahoma would be helpful to the SEC, however.
03-19-2017 01:38 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: 2016 NCAA Athletic Department Revenue for the P5 and the next 15 Highest G5
(03-19-2017 12:22 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-19-2017 10:09 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-19-2017 06:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-19-2017 12:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 10:49 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  That in and of itself is not a reason to expand with schools that don't really help.

Anyway, I find it hard to believe that a league with the economic might of the SEC will have to pick over scraps.

We won't. Our schools are averaging almost 20 million more than most Big 12 schools and 24 million more than ACC schools. That's why we annoy the hell out of all the other conference posters. Florida State could pay 100,000 million to walk away from the ACC and make it up in 4 years.

It won't happen that way because of ESPN but we have a tremendous amount of clout.

On top of that I wouldn't be absolutely convinced that Texas would rule us out. If OU came our way it would make for a compelling reason for Texas to consider it.

Arkansas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and L.S.U. on their annual schedule would be hard to ignore. Even Missouri is a renewal for them. Plus if Alabama and Auburn head East it gives them essentially their own very regional division.

And since Texas is all about the money, well then there's that too. ESPN would be happy just to have them in the fold.

Do you mean something like this?

66 teams, two conferences with three divisions of 11.


SEC/PAC/Big 12

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Auburn, Alabama, Mississippi, Miss. State and West Virginia

Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, LSU, Colorado, BYU

Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, California, Southern Cal, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah


ACC/B1G

Purdue, Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, Louisville, Ohio State Michigan, Michigan State

Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri

Maryland, UVa, Va. Tech, Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest, Dook, Clemson, Ga. Tech, Florida State, and Miami


I just shows that there is more than on way to skin a cat. I don't have the where-with-all to project numbers for this type of division, but it could be substantial. The biggest down side is that the your three divisions have most of the better football schools.

Things are like molasses but moving quickly at the same time. If ESPN's projections are correct, the ACC will get mega increases even in a declining market for them. The prognosis for the Big 12 is questionable and the projections for the PAC are all over the board.
It still come down to what Texas wants or will agree to. The easiest thing would be for Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State to run off to the PAC, but there are no guarantees of competitive income and I don't see Texas and Oklahoma buying a pig in a poke.

I think that culturally the PAC would prefer the merger with the Big 10.

The highest projections for the ACCN put give you a 10 million bump in TV payout over 4 or 5 years after the network is up and running. That, if the SEC remains static, would bring you within 13 million of the overall revenue distributions of the SEC. And while less of a pig in the poke than the PAC it is still not guaranteed.

I don't see conferences getting bigger than 20-24. If it is ever a league 32-36 schools then we will have multiple divisions. The ACC will remain intact even if absorbed into a league or larger conference. You would simply become a more regional division of 6-8 schools.

I think for our present structure the best possible outcome to achieve some balance would be for Texa-homa to head West. But economically and without PACN capitulation I don't see that happening either.

The best possible outcome for the ACC right now would be the old deal. Give up Virginia Tech and N.C. State to the SEC. Add Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas and let ESPN hold Notre Dame accountable for joining in full. Miami can play in a 1/2 division with Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas and that gives the Horns an annual game with a Florida School. Miami has to fly everywhere but Tallahassee anyway, and they probably fly there.

A move like that enhances the value of the ACCN, just like it would have done in 2011-2. The SECN gets enhanced coverage, but the SEC doesn't add schools that are hyper-competitive or which significantly increase it's value. The Big 10 is then essentially cut off targets that could enhance their value. If they form a union with the PAC then we do the same.

Our internal projections show less than a 10% differential.

ACC internal projections have always been compete fluff! You guys are still dead last in revenue and 24 million off of the SEC's mean.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2017 04:58 PM by JRsec.)
03-19-2017 04:57 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #17
RE: 2016 NCAA Athletic Department Revenue for the P5 and the next 15 Highest G5
(03-19-2017 01:38 PM)XLance Wrote:  The best possible outcome for the ACC right now would be the old deal. Give up Virginia Tech and N.C. State to the SEC. Add Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas and let ESPN hold Notre Dame accountable for joining in full.

No, our best possible outcome would be for Texas and one other Texas school (Balyor or TCU) to join the ACC. The market model works for the ACC here in that it puts the ACCN in an additional 8 million homes which would be like adding an additional North Carolina, Virginia and South Carolina.
Oklahoma actually holds little value to the ACC because of limited population (the same goes for Kansas). We need good market penetration and exposure to establish our brand.
The content value of Oklahoma would be helpful to the SEC, however.

Where do you get this 8 million figure? If you get UT all in you pick up 26 million potential homes.
03-19-2017 04:59 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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2016 NCAA Athletic Department Revenue for the P5 and the next 15 Highest G5
An 18 team ACC wouldn't be bad with ND all in with Texas plus one & Cincinnati.

Texas, Houston/TCU, ND, Louisville, Miami & Cincinnati

FSU, Clemson, NC State, Syracuse, BC & WF

VT, NC, Duke, Virginia, Pittsburgh & GT
03-19-2017 05:42 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: 2016 NCAA Athletic Department Revenue for the P5 and the next 15 Highest G5
(03-19-2017 05:42 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  An 18 team ACC wouldn't be bad with ND all in with Texas plus one & Cincinnati.

Texas, Houston/TCU, ND, Louisville, Miami & Cincinnati

FSU, Clemson, NC State, Syracuse, BC & WF

VT, NC, Duke, Virginia, Pittsburgh & GT

I don't think you are going to get Texas. I sincerely doubt you get them all in unless you offer at least 3 more bids to their buddies.

Taking Cincinnati, Connecticut, West Virginia, and getting N.D. to throw all in is your best ticket for a conference that lands new markets, and keeps it's geographical integrity.

The SEC is in the best position to make a play for 4 Big 12 schools. Our Western boundary is their Eastern boundary, and we have several of their old rivals.
03-19-2017 06:25 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #20
RE: 2016 NCAA Athletic Department Revenue for the P5 and the next 15 Highest G5
(03-19-2017 04:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-19-2017 01:38 PM)XLance Wrote:  The best possible outcome for the ACC right now would be the old deal. Give up Virginia Tech and N.C. State to the SEC. Add Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas and let ESPN hold Notre Dame accountable for joining in full.

No, our best possible outcome would be for Texas and one other Texas school (Balyor or TCU) to join the ACC. The market model works for the ACC here in that it puts the ACCN in an additional 8 million homes which would be like adding an additional North Carolina, Virginia and South Carolina.
Oklahoma actually holds little value to the ACC because of limited population (the same goes for Kansas). We need good market penetration and exposure to establish our brand.
The content value of Oklahoma would be helpful to the SEC, however.

Where do you get this 8 million figure? If you get UT all in you pick up 26 million potential homes.

Texas has a population of 26 million. I figure a average of 3.x people per household. That's about 8 million homes.
03-19-2017 07:44 PM
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