Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Would C-USA be better off splitting up?
Author Message
billybobby777 Offline
Fighting the cartel 5
*

Posts: 7,455
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 293
I Root For: ECU, Army
Location: Houston dont sleepon
Post: #411
RE: Would C-USA be better off splitting up?
(04-23-2017 06:42 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(04-23-2017 02:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Can someone explain the MAC upheaval of the 80's and 90's? I remember some schools going Indy. I remember NIU even joining the Big West. Why? That's an interesting topic. Kittonhead? Stay Cool?

The common mindset that we know as the "MAC Philosophy" has evolved through the decades.

The MAC didn't compete with a full scholarship allotment prior to the formation of FBS. Louisville and Cincinnati were prepared to join the MAC in the 60's as it was on the rise with all the new dorms built BUT the MAC played at a limited 85 scholarships at a time when the major programs played unlimited.

In comes NIU in the 70's with big dreams. At one point in the early 80's as the MAC was establishing itself in D-1A they forced a vote on EMU and Kent's membership in the MAC. The deal was either EMU & Kent left or they would hit the road. EMU & Kent stayed and subsequently invested heavily in the minor sports to show they had value though they couldn't get FB going. Kent today is too important from the academic perspective to cut but back then was struggling in the wake of the Vietnam War as a liberal public school that was out of favor.

NIU left and the MAC hung in there. In some cases in the 80's they would play FCS schools on the road and in a time when it was PAC, WAC, SWC, Big 8, B1G, SEC, ACC and major independents the MAC was viewed as a tweener FBS/FCS conference, a temporary holding tank from which some might upgrade to CUSA where others were eventually heading down to FCS. In many preseason football magazines the MAC wasn't even included. They were considered not fully at the top level well before that distinction was made.

Then 1992 hit and FBS moved to 85 scholarship football after phasing in less scholarships gradually for a decade. This had a dramatic positive impact on the MAC. By 1995 Toledo was the first team to break into the Top 25 from the MAC in two decades. New schools were moving up to FBS and the sports national popularity was exploding. CUSA 1.0 however was much further ahead of the game and that had MAC schools looking over their shoulder since they couldn't get rolling on bowl games without southern markets.

It was invest or be left behind in the 90's. All the MAC schools invested a lot of money in football. The average MAC stadium size by the late 90's was 28,000 after around 18,000 in the early 80's. The football attendance regulation required an average of 17,000 once every four years or a 30,000 seat stadium so most MAC schools were sporting a 30,000 seat capacity at the time for that reason. Average capacity in the MAC as of 2017 is right around 26,000 so they've pulled out bleachers to right size things.

Marshall was a big shot in the arm for the MAC when they joined in 1997 into a rising conference. Some predicted the demise of the MAC when they moved to CUSA which was like joining the AAC at the time. Then came that big 2003 season where the MAC had 3 teams finish in the AP Top 25 and was near power conference in strength. Marshall departed but the MAC signed its first midweek deal starting the year after they left.

Before the internet there wasn't ready public access to athletic budgets or travel costs. All the public knew was what was on TV or what they could see from the Top 25 polls in the newspaper. College presidents went with their ego's putting their schools into far flung conference for a marginal perceived advantage. Today the push is to go regional and to save on costs if you're not getting a power conference.

There is also bowl saturation where every 6-6 team in the country finds a spot. This a rather recent development. The MAC didn't get a second bowl until 2000 while CUSA had 5 of them. MAC has 5 guaranteed tie-ins so this is no longer a problem for the membership. The two New Year's bowl appearances don't hurt either in the Orange and Cotton Bowl.

Alternate history and the MAC boots out EMU/KSU what happens? Marshall probably still comes and goes. The MAC would have voted in WKU as EMU was the dissenting vote on their admission in 2005 and maybe SIU as a 10th.

Northern Illinois
Southern Illinois
Western Kentucky
Ball State
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Toledo
Bowling Green
Miami
Ohio

The MAC wouldn't have the Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo markets that it does today if that is the way history had gone down.

Thanks for this Kittonhead. I like reading about the histories of the conferences. I know everything about the Metro, WAC and CUSA formations....but the MAC has a great history that I'm trying to get more info on.
04-24-2017 06:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Stay Cool Offline
The Masked Moderator
*

Posts: 7,063
Joined: Feb 2015
Reputation: 158
I Root For: NIU, tOSU, UC
Location: Dekalb, IL
Post: #412
RE: Would C-USA be better off splitting up?
(04-24-2017 06:26 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(04-23-2017 06:42 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(04-23-2017 02:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Can someone explain the MAC upheaval of the 80's and 90's? I remember some schools going Indy. I remember NIU even joining the Big West. Why? That's an interesting topic. Kittonhead? Stay Cool?

The common mindset that we know as the "MAC Philosophy" has evolved through the decades.

The MAC didn't compete with a full scholarship allotment prior to the formation of FBS. Louisville and Cincinnati were prepared to join the MAC in the 60's as it was on the rise with all the new dorms built BUT the MAC played at a limited 85 scholarships at a time when the major programs played unlimited.

In comes NIU in the 70's with big dreams. At one point in the early 80's as the MAC was establishing itself in D-1A they forced a vote on EMU and Kent's membership in the MAC. The deal was either EMU & Kent left or they would hit the road. EMU & Kent stayed and subsequently invested heavily in the minor sports to show they had value though they couldn't get FB going. Kent today is too important from the academic perspective to cut but back then was struggling in the wake of the Vietnam War as a liberal public school that was out of favor.

NIU left and the MAC hung in there. In some cases in the 80's they would play FCS schools on the road and in a time when it was PAC, WAC, SWC, Big 8, B1G, SEC, ACC and major independents the MAC was viewed as a tweener FBS/FCS conference, a temporary holding tank from which some might upgrade to CUSA where others were eventually heading down to FCS. In many preseason football magazines the MAC wasn't even included. They were considered not fully at the top level well before that distinction was made.

Then 1992 hit and FBS moved to 85 scholarship football after phasing in less scholarships gradually for a decade. This had a dramatic positive impact on the MAC. By 1995 Toledo was the first team to break into the Top 25 from the MAC in two decades. New schools were moving up to FBS and the sports national popularity was exploding. CUSA 1.0 however was much further ahead of the game and that had MAC schools looking over their shoulder since they couldn't get rolling on bowl games without southern markets.

It was invest or be left behind in the 90's. All the MAC schools invested a lot of money in football. The average MAC stadium size by the late 90's was 28,000 after around 18,000 in the early 80's. The football attendance regulation required an average of 17,000 once every four years or a 30,000 seat stadium so most MAC schools were sporting a 30,000 seat capacity at the time for that reason. Average capacity in the MAC as of 2017 is right around 26,000 so they've pulled out bleachers to right size things.

Marshall was a big shot in the arm for the MAC when they joined in 1997 into a rising conference. Some predicted the demise of the MAC when they moved to CUSA which was like joining the AAC at the time. Then came that big 2003 season where the MAC had 3 teams finish in the AP Top 25 and was near power conference in strength. Marshall departed but the MAC signed its first midweek deal starting the year after they left.

Before the internet there wasn't ready public access to athletic budgets or travel costs. All the public knew was what was on TV or what they could see from the Top 25 polls in the newspaper. College presidents went with their ego's putting their schools into far flung conference for a marginal perceived advantage. Today the push is to go regional and to save on costs if you're not getting a power conference.

There is also bowl saturation where every 6-6 team in the country finds a spot. This a rather recent development. The MAC didn't get a second bowl until 2000 while CUSA had 5 of them. MAC has 5 guaranteed tie-ins so this is no longer a problem for the membership. The two New Year's bowl appearances don't hurt either in the Orange and Cotton Bowl.

Alternate history and the MAC boots out EMU/KSU what happens? Marshall probably still comes and goes. The MAC would have voted in WKU as EMU was the dissenting vote on their admission in 2005 and maybe SIU as a 10th.

Northern Illinois
Southern Illinois
Western Kentucky
Ball State
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Toledo
Bowling Green
Miami
Ohio

The MAC wouldn't have the Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo markets that it does today if that is the way history had gone down.

Thanks for this Kittonhead. I like reading about the histories of the conferences. I know everything about the Metro, WAC and CUSA formations....but the MAC has a great history that I'm trying to get more info on.
Like I said, WAAAAY more knowledgeable on that than I would've been...


Now if you need someone to pander on about an AAC invite, look no further!

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
04-24-2017 09:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
billybobby777 Offline
Fighting the cartel 5
*

Posts: 7,455
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 293
I Root For: ECU, Army
Location: Houston dont sleepon
Post: #413
RE: Would C-USA be better off splitting up?
(04-24-2017 09:06 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  
(04-24-2017 06:26 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(04-23-2017 06:42 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(04-23-2017 02:34 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Can someone explain the MAC upheaval of the 80's and 90's? I remember some schools going Indy. I remember NIU even joining the Big West. Why? That's an interesting topic. Kittonhead? Stay Cool?

The common mindset that we know as the "MAC Philosophy" has evolved through the decades.

The MAC didn't compete with a full scholarship allotment prior to the formation of FBS. Louisville and Cincinnati were prepared to join the MAC in the 60's as it was on the rise with all the new dorms built BUT the MAC played at a limited 85 scholarships at a time when the major programs played unlimited.

In comes NIU in the 70's with big dreams. At one point in the early 80's as the MAC was establishing itself in D-1A they forced a vote on EMU and Kent's membership in the MAC. The deal was either EMU & Kent left or they would hit the road. EMU & Kent stayed and subsequently invested heavily in the minor sports to show they had value though they couldn't get FB going. Kent today is too important from the academic perspective to cut but back then was struggling in the wake of the Vietnam War as a liberal public school that was out of favor.

NIU left and the MAC hung in there. In some cases in the 80's they would play FCS schools on the road and in a time when it was PAC, WAC, SWC, Big 8, B1G, SEC, ACC and major independents the MAC was viewed as a tweener FBS/FCS conference, a temporary holding tank from which some might upgrade to CUSA where others were eventually heading down to FCS. In many preseason football magazines the MAC wasn't even included. They were considered not fully at the top level well before that distinction was made.

Then 1992 hit and FBS moved to 85 scholarship football after phasing in less scholarships gradually for a decade. This had a dramatic positive impact on the MAC. By 1995 Toledo was the first team to break into the Top 25 from the MAC in two decades. New schools were moving up to FBS and the sports national popularity was exploding. CUSA 1.0 however was much further ahead of the game and that had MAC schools looking over their shoulder since they couldn't get rolling on bowl games without southern markets.

It was invest or be left behind in the 90's. All the MAC schools invested a lot of money in football. The average MAC stadium size by the late 90's was 28,000 after around 18,000 in the early 80's. The football attendance regulation required an average of 17,000 once every four years or a 30,000 seat stadium so most MAC schools were sporting a 30,000 seat capacity at the time for that reason. Average capacity in the MAC as of 2017 is right around 26,000 so they've pulled out bleachers to right size things.

Marshall was a big shot in the arm for the MAC when they joined in 1997 into a rising conference. Some predicted the demise of the MAC when they moved to CUSA which was like joining the AAC at the time. Then came that big 2003 season where the MAC had 3 teams finish in the AP Top 25 and was near power conference in strength. Marshall departed but the MAC signed its first midweek deal starting the year after they left.

Before the internet there wasn't ready public access to athletic budgets or travel costs. All the public knew was what was on TV or what they could see from the Top 25 polls in the newspaper. College presidents went with their ego's putting their schools into far flung conference for a marginal perceived advantage. Today the push is to go regional and to save on costs if you're not getting a power conference.

There is also bowl saturation where every 6-6 team in the country finds a spot. This a rather recent development. The MAC didn't get a second bowl until 2000 while CUSA had 5 of them. MAC has 5 guaranteed tie-ins so this is no longer a problem for the membership. The two New Year's bowl appearances don't hurt either in the Orange and Cotton Bowl.

Alternate history and the MAC boots out EMU/KSU what happens? Marshall probably still comes and goes. The MAC would have voted in WKU as EMU was the dissenting vote on their admission in 2005 and maybe SIU as a 10th.

Northern Illinois
Southern Illinois
Western Kentucky
Ball State
Central Michigan
Western Michigan
Toledo
Bowling Green
Miami
Ohio

The MAC wouldn't have the Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo markets that it does today if that is the way history had gone down.

Thanks for this Kittonhead. I like reading about the histories of the conferences. I know everything about the Metro, WAC and CUSA formations....but the MAC has a great history that I'm trying to get more info on.
Like I said, WAAAAY more knowledgeable on that than I would've been...


Now if you need someone to pander on about an AAC invite, look no further!

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Hahahaha. I've noticed you have 2 P5's coming to NIU in 2018!! Florida St and someone else! Great opportunity....
04-24-2017 10:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2017 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2017 MyBB Group.