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FBS Athletic Dept Total Revenues
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #51
RE: FBS Athletic Dept Total Revenues
(03-26-2017 09:59 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-25-2017 05:30 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I said "should".

Well in that case, almost 100% of ADs disagree with you.


(03-25-2017 05:30 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  There's no evidence that the intangible benefits outweigh the tangible costs for most D1 schools

Again, how is it possible to obtain evidence of intangible benefits?

Of course ADs disagree, as their jobs/careers depend on an irrational attachment by universities to athletics.

And you must believe in the tooth fairy, right? After all, we can't obtain evidence that it doesn't exist, and if we can't do that then we must assume it exists, just as you assume that intangible benefits of athletics outweighs tangible costs.

FWIW, intangible factors can sometimes be measured indirectly.

E.g., we could survey alumni and ask them whether they anticipate reducing donations to the university if athletics were scaled back to a no-subsidy basis, etc.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 12:14 AM by quo vadis.)
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #52
RE: FBS Athletic Dept Total Revenues
(03-24-2017 11:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(03-24-2017 08:33 PM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  Don't just assume those athletics programs don't give back to the universities.

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Report-10-athl...s-43162535

Texas ($37.1 million transferred to education; $0 total subsidy)
Ohio State ($36.2 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Alabama ($25.4 million transferred; $23 million subsidy)
Florida ($25.2 million transferred; $17.9 million subsidy)
LSU ($19 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Oklahoma ($11.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Nebraska ($9.7 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Kentucky ($8.1 million transferred; $3.4 million subsidy)
Michigan ($7.2 million transferred; $1 million subsidy)
Purdue ($4.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)

It's astonishing to me that Alabama doesn't give more back. They probably give more than a net $2.4 million - I'm sure accounting is hiding a lot - but still...

Don't underestimate how much Alabama spends on football. They probably spend more than any other school in the country.
Yesterday 06:30 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #53
RE: FBS Athletic Dept Total Revenues
(Yesterday 06:30 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-24-2017 11:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(03-24-2017 08:33 PM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  Don't just assume those athletics programs don't give back to the universities.

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Report-10-athl...s-43162535

Texas ($37.1 million transferred to education; $0 total subsidy)
Ohio State ($36.2 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Alabama ($25.4 million transferred; $23 million subsidy)
Florida ($25.2 million transferred; $17.9 million subsidy)
LSU ($19 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Oklahoma ($11.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Nebraska ($9.7 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Kentucky ($8.1 million transferred; $3.4 million subsidy)
Michigan ($7.2 million transferred; $1 million subsidy)
Purdue ($4.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)

It's astonishing to me that Alabama doesn't give more back. They probably give more than a net $2.4 million - I'm sure accounting is hiding a lot - but still...

Don't underestimate how much Alabama spends on football. They probably spend more than any other school in the country.

Yes they do. Still, considering just their football program, in 2016 it brought in about $50 million more than they spent on it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer...860f153243
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 08:32 AM by quo vadis.)
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #54
RE: FBS Athletic Dept Total Revenues
(03-24-2017 08:33 PM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  Don't just assume those athletics programs don't give back to the universities.

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Report-10-athl...s-43162535

Texas ($37.1 million transferred to education; $0 total subsidy)
Ohio State ($36.2 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Alabama ($25.4 million transferred; $23 million subsidy)
Florida ($25.2 million transferred; $17.9 million subsidy)
LSU ($19 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Oklahoma ($11.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Nebraska ($9.7 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Kentucky ($8.1 million transferred; $3.4 million subsidy)
Michigan ($7.2 million transferred; $1 million subsidy)
Purdue ($4.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)


When other independent divisions of the university (such as real estate, the bookstore, or a patent generated by a professor) turn a profit, the university is required to spin it off as a for-profit company so that it pays taxes.

My wife's last job was at a materials testing lab that used to be a part of Purdue. Purdue's accountants required the university to spin it off because it started to turn a regular profit. They didn't want to jeopardize the university's tax status.

Turning a profit can be justified if it's for a nonprofit purpose (such as education). For example, Purdue's endowment owns over 25% of the farmland in Tippecanoe County. This is a huge, revenue producing asset, but they justify it as part of their land-grant research mission.

Does anyone know how athletics get around this? Is it claimed to be an educational activity?
Yesterday 03:55 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: FBS Athletic Dept Total Revenues
(Yesterday 03:55 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(03-24-2017 08:33 PM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  Don't just assume those athletics programs don't give back to the universities.

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Report-10-athl...s-43162535

Texas ($37.1 million transferred to education; $0 total subsidy)
Ohio State ($36.2 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Alabama ($25.4 million transferred; $23 million subsidy)
Florida ($25.2 million transferred; $17.9 million subsidy)
LSU ($19 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Oklahoma ($11.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Nebraska ($9.7 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Kentucky ($8.1 million transferred; $3.4 million subsidy)
Michigan ($7.2 million transferred; $1 million subsidy)
Purdue ($4.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)


When other independent divisions of the university (such as real estate, the bookstore, or a patent generated by a professor) turn a profit, the university is required to spin it off as a for-profit company so that it pays taxes.

My wife's last job was at a materials testing lab that used to be a part of Purdue. Purdue's accountants required the university to spin it off because it started to turn a regular profit. They didn't want to jeopardize the university's tax status.

Turning a profit can be justified if it's for a nonprofit purpose (such as education). For example, Purdue's endowment owns over 25% of the farmland in Tippecanoe County. This is a huge, revenue producing asset, but they justify it as part of their land-grant research mission.

Does anyone know how athletics get around this? Is it claimed to be an educational activity?

It's not the profit that's the problem. Most organizations hope to operate in the black. The distinction is that if a nonprofit or a not for profit veers away from their stated mission into commercial territory and makes money then it loses the tax exempt protection. I don't think they necessarily need to spin it off but they do have to report it and pay taxes. Not necessarily my area of expertise so someone correct me if I'm wrong. "Amateur Athletics" gets a special carve out in the code that allows them to operate not only as a nonprofit without paying tax on income but they enjoy 501c3 status allowing donations to these organizations to be tax deductible. Usually that's reserved for charitable, religious and educational missions.
Yesterday 04:18 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #56
RE: FBS Athletic Dept Total Revenues
(Yesterday 04:18 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(Yesterday 03:55 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(03-24-2017 08:33 PM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  Don't just assume those athletics programs don't give back to the universities.

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Report-10-athl...s-43162535

Texas ($37.1 million transferred to education; $0 total subsidy)
Ohio State ($36.2 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Alabama ($25.4 million transferred; $23 million subsidy)
Florida ($25.2 million transferred; $17.9 million subsidy)
LSU ($19 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Oklahoma ($11.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Nebraska ($9.7 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Kentucky ($8.1 million transferred; $3.4 million subsidy)
Michigan ($7.2 million transferred; $1 million subsidy)
Purdue ($4.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)


When other independent divisions of the university (such as real estate, the bookstore, or a patent generated by a professor) turn a profit, the university is required to spin it off as a for-profit company so that it pays taxes.

My wife's last job was at a materials testing lab that used to be a part of Purdue. Purdue's accountants required the university to spin it off because it started to turn a regular profit. They didn't want to jeopardize the university's tax status.

Turning a profit can be justified if it's for a nonprofit purpose (such as education). For example, Purdue's endowment owns over 25% of the farmland in Tippecanoe County. This is a huge, revenue producing asset, but they justify it as part of their land-grant research mission.

Does anyone know how athletics get around this? Is it claimed to be an educational activity?

It's not the profit that's the problem. Most organizations hope to operate in the black. The distinction is that if a nonprofit or a not for profit veers away from their stated mission into commercial territory and makes money then it loses the tax exempt protection. I don't think they necessarily need to spin it off but they do have to report it and pay taxes. Not necessarily my area of expertise so someone correct me if I'm wrong. "Amateur Athletics" gets a special carve out in the code that allows them to operate not only as a nonprofit without paying tax on income but they enjoy 501c3 status allowing donations to these organizations to be tax deductible. Usually that's reserved for charitable, religious and educational missions.

#1 Its part of their "mission." Its "student-athletes."
#2 Its incidental to the money the schools generate in total.
Yesterday 05:11 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: FBS Athletic Dept Total Revenues
(Yesterday 05:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(Yesterday 04:18 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(Yesterday 03:55 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(03-24-2017 08:33 PM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  Don't just assume those athletics programs don't give back to the universities.

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Report-10-athl...s-43162535

Texas ($37.1 million transferred to education; $0 total subsidy)
Ohio State ($36.2 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Alabama ($25.4 million transferred; $23 million subsidy)
Florida ($25.2 million transferred; $17.9 million subsidy)
LSU ($19 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Oklahoma ($11.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Nebraska ($9.7 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)
Kentucky ($8.1 million transferred; $3.4 million subsidy)
Michigan ($7.2 million transferred; $1 million subsidy)
Purdue ($4.1 million transferred; $0 total subsidy)


When other independent divisions of the university (such as real estate, the bookstore, or a patent generated by a professor) turn a profit, the university is required to spin it off as a for-profit company so that it pays taxes.

My wife's last job was at a materials testing lab that used to be a part of Purdue. Purdue's accountants required the university to spin it off because it started to turn a regular profit. They didn't want to jeopardize the university's tax status.

Turning a profit can be justified if it's for a nonprofit purpose (such as education). For example, Purdue's endowment owns over 25% of the farmland in Tippecanoe County. This is a huge, revenue producing asset, but they justify it as part of their land-grant research mission.

Does anyone know how athletics get around this? Is it claimed to be an educational activity?

It's not the profit that's the problem. Most organizations hope to operate in the black. The distinction is that if a nonprofit or a not for profit veers away from their stated mission into commercial territory and makes money then it loses the tax exempt protection. I don't think they necessarily need to spin it off but they do have to report it and pay taxes. Not necessarily my area of expertise so someone correct me if I'm wrong. "Amateur Athletics" gets a special carve out in the code that allows them to operate not only as a nonprofit without paying tax on income but they enjoy 501c3 status allowing donations to these organizations to be tax deductible. Usually that's reserved for charitable, religious and educational missions.

#1 Its part of their "mission." Its "student-athletes."
#2 Its incidental to the money the schools generate in total.

Well athletic department revenues are obviously not taxable but I think it's due to a specific carve out in the tax code for amateur athletics. I think it'd be tough to make the argument that sports are a part of a university's goal of education. Again, I'm not an expert on nonprofits or what constitutes unrelated business income but I do know that it doesn't matter if the AD is "profitable".
Yesterday 10:08 PM
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