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Virginia Beach arena update
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Blue_Trombone Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 09:38 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 09:02 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:30 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:19 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Yall realize they are studying the extension to the base right now? It will go to the base. The only question is whether it goes through Ghent and ODU or up military to the airport and to the base. It will get extended and Norfolk will start the next spur after that is completed.

They've been studying it for 20 years. It isn't happening. They lost the public with the way it started, they have no money, and none of the other cities and counties that feed HRT want anything to do with subsidizing it. They blew it.

They studied it before the first leg was built than they built it. Then they studied a variety of routes and selected their top choice, the east side extension. Last year they completed the study on that extension. The FTA said they need to look at the westside as a second option. They're completing that now. Once that is done, theyll present it to the FTA and they'll select the preferred route and put it out for design and build.

Nothing is blown. A very slow process will just take longer to get to a fuller fleshed out system without VB involved.

Right... so where will they get the money? If it goes West side, which is the only way it has a snowball's chance of being a success, we are talking billions in infrastructure, bridges, etc. If it goes East side, it still needs the right of way and rail and it ultimately becomes just a longer train to nowhere. On top of that, the federal government is tightening up.

The starter line already had the right of way and rail, the federal government was givving money away like candy for schit like this, and they weren't already operating in the red.

It isn't going to be as easy this time asking governments and tax payers to shell out a lot more good money after bad.

So, I would be surprised if a full Norfolk build-out of the system hit $1B, for both the East and West corridors. The original 7 mile starter line that Norfolk made cost around $318 million. So I think it's fair to say that each extension of the system should safely fit under $500MM each. The city of Norfolk also had to lay track down for the downtown portions of rail and create overpasses and bridges. So it's not like the VB extension where all the track was just there.

Light rail was funded with $128MM from the FTA, Norfolk put in $33 million, the state contributed $31.9 million, and $39.2 million came from other federal sources.

To put that in perspective, Norfolk spent $86.6 million to help construct The Main in downtown.

When financing the VB extension, $155 million of the $243.1 million cost would have been provided by the state of Virginia. VB's financial commitment would have only been around $90 million. (This was a pretty fantastic deal and it still blows my mind how short-sided some VB residents were when it came to this vote.)

Now, I personally prefer the Westside expansion, but saying the Eastside expansion would be "another train to nowhere" isn't true either. It would still go to the Navy base, and would be great for VB and Chesapeake residents that need to go to NOB but don't want to deal with the traffic there. There are a couple of park-n-rides at the stops nearest them, which would be utilized if the extension went out that way. It would also provide a link to the airport, and would help the planned urban revitalization of Military Circle.

The Eastside route would also be cheaper to make than the westside route probably, since the right-of-way would be pretty straightforward (it would follow I-64 and I-564 most of the way until it hit the base). It also resides on the highest land in Norfolk, and wouldn't be as susceptive to flooding as a potential Westside route would be.
05-08-2017 11:30 AM
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 11:30 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  When financing the VB extension, $155 million of the $243.1 million cost would have been provided by the state of Virginia. VB's financial commitment would have only been around $90 million. (This was a pretty fantastic deal and it still blows my mind how short-sided some VB residents were when it came to this vote.)

Wow.

So how was that money re-appropriated across the state budget? Did it go to infrastructure or economic development in Central VA or NoVA? Or did Va Beach voters just save the state some money that was just never spent? Either way, I'm sure Kirk Cox and Delegates from all other areas give many thanks to the great citizens of the 757 for another year of not addressing the collective needs of a growing population.

Just think, 15-20 years from now Greater Hampton Roads could look more like Horry County, SC than Charlotte, NC. For those of us that were watching 35 years ago, that's an amazing case study.
05-08-2017 12:23 PM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 12:23 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 11:30 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  When financing the VB extension, $155 million of the $243.1 million cost would have been provided by the state of Virginia. VB's financial commitment would have only been around $90 million. (This was a pretty fantastic deal and it still blows my mind how short-sided some VB residents were when it came to this vote.)

Wow.

So how was that money re-appropriated across the state budget? Did it go to infrastructure or economic development in Central VA or NoVA? Or did Va Beach voters just save the state some money that was just never spent?

The money went back into the state pool for mass transit projects, likely to NoVa. They also owe the state $20 mil, which they are paying back in installments over 4 years, for the purchase of the right of way. And they owe the Fed another $5 mil.
05-08-2017 12:39 PM
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bit_9 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 12:39 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 12:23 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 11:30 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  When financing the VB extension, $155 million of the $243.1 million cost would have been provided by the state of Virginia. VB's financial commitment would have only been around $90 million. (This was a pretty fantastic deal and it still blows my mind how short-sided some VB residents were when it came to this vote.)

Wow.

So how was that money re-appropriated across the state budget? Did it go to infrastructure or economic development in Central VA or NoVA? Or did Va Beach voters just save the state some money that was just never spent?

The money went back into the state pool for mass transit projects, likely to NoVa. They also owe the state $20 mil, which they are paying back in installments over 4 years, for the purchase of the right of way. And they owe the Fed another $5 mil.

Glad you had the time to put all that out there. The people in Richmond will never offer VB another deal like that. NoVA and Roanoke were both chomping at the bit to get that money for their projects. Richmond held it for VB for 2 years? Tied up. Yeah, total waste of a lot of money.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 01:01 PM by bit_9.)
05-08-2017 01:01 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 07:30 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:19 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 06:07 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:27 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:11 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Champagne tastes on a beer budget. This area is notorious for having big ideas and then fatally underfunding. Due in large part to the go it alone philosophy. The Tide is case in point. A huge expense, it was underfunded and basically goes nowhere. Thus the opponents have a self fulfilling prophecy, "see we told you wouldn't work".Va. Beach's' failure to get on board is a classic example of how to kill a great idea, or at least make it significantly less than it should be.
It seems city leaders and residents want something good, then chicken out half way thru because of the expense. Until we can agree to work together as a region, sharing the huge expense of doing it right, we'll always have these ill conceived, underfunded attempts at looking vibrant.
The Tide failed because the starter line went nowhere and nobody needs to use it in their daily routine. It doesn't get anyone where they live and work. The people working downtown don't live where It goes and the people that live where It goes don't work downtown. It was a bad idea from the beginning. If the starter line went through Ghent and ODU, it would have been a success. It wasn't underfunded, it was built by Norfolk and instead of Norfolk making its own success, they hedged their success on VB, another entity, to fund its extension. So dumb and incompetent someone should be hanging by their balls at Norfolk city hall.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

When I said underfunded I was thinking to the extent that it didn't go anywhere, as you mentioned. If they had come up with the money to run it to ODU and on to Ghent and the navy base, it would have worked.

Yall realize they are studying the extension to the base right now? It will go to the base. The only question is whether it goes through Ghent and ODU or up military to the airport and to the base. It will get extended and Norfolk will start the next spur after that is completed.

They've been studying it for 20 years. It isn't happening. They lost the public with the way it started, they have no money, and none of the other cities and counties that feed HRT want anything to do with subsidizing it. They blew it.

I don't think the public in NFK is lost. VB just had too many areas with people who would not benefit from it for it to pass. The city also did a crap job of fighting off the campaign from the no light rail people.
05-08-2017 02:23 PM
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