http://www.si.com/college-basketball/201...tournament

(03-15-2017 10:21 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  http://www.si.com/college-basketball/201...tournament

Great article. Thanks for posting it.

The mission of the article stayed consistent pretty well. The one thing left out however is that the coaches who are crying also move for higher ground. And, no disrespect intended towards them. Career and salary advancement makes sense. I just won't cry any tears for them when they talk about players moving around and their own eyes are focused on moving on themselves at some point.

Again though, good summation article that really points out what CBB coaches are facing these days. The power conferences deal with the 1-and-dones to the NBA too as was mentioned. Forcing these few, rare talents to go to college instead of entering direct to the NBA out of HS makes absolutely no sense to me. Think about it. A stud hoops player who used to be able to go direct to the NBA out of HS will go to college, pass some cupcake courses in fall semester to stay eligible and then essentially ditch their entire spring semester academic course load because they are making themselves eligible for the NBA draft after the season completes in March-April. Some college experience.

The NCAA does a lot of stupid things. And, it appears the NBA will never adopt similar policies that we see with MLB or NFL where players stay for at least 2-3 years. College baseball coaches - especially the high-level programs who sign a lot of kids who will be drafted in the MLB Amateur draft in June - have limited scholarships to distribute (11.7 IIRC). For the studs they sign, they have to wait to see if the prospect will go the minor league route. But, better than CBB, once they step in a classroom, the baseball coach knows he has them for 3 years or age 20 (21?) whichever comes first.

There has been some rumor that the NCAA is going to do away with the immediate eligibility rule for those who graduate (which only applies to FB and Hoops for men as all other sports allow immediate eligibility for transfers). Will be interesting to see if that happens. Kinda sad to read coaches talking about intentionally slowing down academic progress by S-A's to avoid them graduating early with eligibility left as well as frowning on red-shirting for the same reasons.

I say let a person do what they want as long as it isn't harming someone else or taking advantage of them.
If a student wants to go pro out of HS, good for them. If they stay 1, 2, or 3 years of eligibility and go pro or transfer to a new grad school and play, good for them.

I agree with the hypocrisy of coaches upset but then they'd bounce the first P5 or fbs offer they get. That's a two way street.

It's ultimately up to a coach to retain players for a variety of reasons.

A big part of recruiting now is keeping the kids (constantly re recruiting them if you will) in your program. Good article but you have to wonder at what point is it bad luck that a coach losses a couple of guys and at what point is it on the coach/i.e. a trend. Cleveland State, Robert Morris, etc. were bit repeatedly by the transfer bug - JMU was as well. Bad luck, symptomatic of the current environment or reflective of the culture with those programs. We'll see how it plays out at JMU but I think a big reason why Brady is gone and Rowe is here is because of this epidemic and the "exit interviews" that Bourne conducted with guys, parents, etc. on the way out. Rowe is someone who should be able to better relate to players and retain them.

They need to do something, I just have no idea what you can do. It is unfair for coaches to recruit kids, coach them up for them to leave for greener pastures now that they are good/better than they were. But life is not fair, it happens and will continue to happen. As far the coach at Cleveland State, I would look strongly at him, since he keeps showing the ability to find these kids and coach them up. To me that is likely building his job security, not making it harder to keep his job. Schools' need to have expectations and stick with them, sometimes there needs to be more to it than just winning.

Yes the major schools deal with 1 and dones, but that is not even remotely close to the same problem that mid and low majors have with losing players to transferring up. Majors schools will always win recruiting battles, so they know if players leave they can always get more top end players. Mid and low majors will never have that luxury. Finding diamonds in the rough and coaching them up is easier said than done and when the player leaves, it will always leave a hole that won't get replaced by the same caliber player.

I had hoped that seeing the success of Steph Curry, TJ McCollum, and Damian Lillard would show that you don't need to go to a big school to have success in the NBA, but it appears it has not. Obviously Steph is an otherworldly talent, and as the article mentioned, his brother transferred to Duke from Liberty, but there is always hope. Personally, I would like to see a three year rule instituted in BK like in BB - you can sign out of high school, but if you go to college, you go for three years minimum. The one and done rule is making a mockery of the academic side of college sports, turning it a de facto D-League with even smaller pay checks. Again, maybe I'm "old school" in my thinking, and I will admit my bias in being a bigger fan of college basketball than the NBA.

That is a great article and I did not realize just how bad it has become. I do remember years ago a guard named Jim Boylan transferring from Assumption College in Massachusetts to Marquette and being an integral part of the Al McGuire national championship team. At the time it seemed isolated and kind of a good story. What is now happening is no longer anything approaching a good story.

Exhibit A, Charles Cooke.
JMU won 21 games without him last year...

http://daytonflyers.com/news/2017//7/men...ath=mbball

While I don't begrudge players for doing it ( unless it's done solely on the counsel of some idiot hanger-on friend), I am disturbed by the trend. But that's just me as a fan of mid-major basketball speaking.

These two statements really bother me though:

1) Bob McKillop, who coached the Steph Curry-led Elite Eight team at Davidson in 2008, said the Curry family informed him of intermediaries calling to gauge Steph’s interest to transfer.

and

2) The tampering has gotten so bad that coaches have white boards in their office of players on other teams they’re targeting to poach.


So who are these intermediaries and when does this become tampering?

"Maine went 8-22 last year and lost three players to bigger programs—VCU, Colorado State and Rider."

Wait, Rider is a "bigger program" than Maine?

(03-15-2017 06:50 PM)s2dsayer Wrote:  "Maine went 8-22 last year and lost three players to bigger programs—VCU, Colorado State and Rider."

Wait, Rider is a "bigger program" than Maine?

Marginally yes. The MAAC is better than the AEast

Interesting article. Shows how the rich keep getting richer!!

Brian

(03-15-2017 05:11 PM)olddawg Wrote:  While I don't begrudge players for doing it ( unless it's done solely on the counsel of some idiot hanger-on friend), I am disturbed by the trend. But that's just me as a fan of mid-major basketball speaking.

These two statements really bother me though:

1) Bob McKillop, who coached the Steph Curry-led Elite Eight team at Davidson in 2008, said the Curry family informed him of intermediaries calling to gauge Steph’s interest to transfer.

and

2) The tampering has gotten so bad that coaches have white boards in their office of players on other teams they’re targeting to poach.


So who are these intermediaries and when does this become tampering?

I felt the same way... As a bigger fan of JMU basketball than any other sports team, of course I'd prefer that this isn't so common. In the long run though, when a player has a shot at the NBA and another school gives him a better chance at it, it'd be pretty damn selfish to want him to ignore that and instead be loyal to JMU or any other school. So if I try to put any bias aside, it's hard to say that I think the NCAA needs to prevent these transfers from being so common. It does sound like they need to do something about the tampering though.


The other quote that bothered me besides the two you mentioned bothering you was:
"Toole says he’s more reluctant to scream at a high-end player, knowing that a transfer is just a frustrated post-practice phone call away."

Obviously, looking to transfer for that reason is usually going to be a mistake and it's a mistake that some players are going to make anyway, but cutting down on the tampering does seem like it'd make it a less common mistake. Of course it also sucks that a coach has to let that impact how he coaches someone.

I'd argue that it gives them a better chance at the NBA but I know that's what the kids and their family believe. I think NBA scouts aren't blinded by the jersey- you are either an NBA prospect (no matter where you play college) or you aren't. I think Cooke is probably a marginal 2nd rounder and I think you could make the case that had he stayed at JMU he probably would be in the same boat. There are other perks- winning, playing in big time arenas etc. but look at Damion Lee- it didn't help him get drafted. Hancock was MOP of the Final four but it didn't help him get to the NBA. I think you could make a case that it nets someone more money overseas (coming from a name program makes it easier for the foreign team to promote the player) but that's about it.

BTW I think when you see all these transfers from one program it has to do with the culture and the coach at some level. It's not just bad luck. You don't see kids really transferring from good programs that they know are setup to win the next season. White from Nebraska to Syracuse as an example- Nebraska was a Big 10 also ran had he stayed if they had a better team around him he probably doesn't leave.

One other observation- I think when a kid gets injured and is away from the team and routine and more subject to outside noise they are more vulnerable to transferring. Lee and Barry come to mind as two examples.