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LongtimeFan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Basketball transfers out
Nobody is transferring from Ball State and only two of top nine are graduating.
03-29-2017 12:06 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Basketball transfers out
(03-28-2017 08:34 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 04:00 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  And if our new hire isn't able to somehow convince them to stay, this two-year rebuild just turned into a four-year rebuild.

I don't want to sound like a "I told you so," but that is always the risk you run with firing a coach. Granted, Cooper had every reason to be fired, but I still felt like he should've gotten one more year just to see what he could do with the Weathers' as sophomores.

And to make this a not Miami thing, and albeit different circumstances, I fully expect to see similar departures from Akron ... We'll see you at the race for the bottom next year.

I tell that to our EMU fans who want to replace Murphy.

Replacing a coach is more than simply some 'blue sky'. Real possiblities things could go wrong.
03-29-2017 03:11 PM
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Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Basketball transfers out
(03-29-2017 03:11 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 08:34 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 04:00 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  And if our new hire isn't able to somehow convince them to stay, this two-year rebuild just turned into a four-year rebuild.

I don't want to sound like a "I told you so," but that is always the risk you run with firing a coach. Granted, Cooper had every reason to be fired, but I still felt like he should've gotten one more year just to see what he could do with the Weathers' as sophomores.

And to make this a not Miami thing, and albeit different circumstances, I fully expect to see similar departures from Akron ... We'll see you at the race for the bottom next year.

I tell that to our EMU fans who want to replace Murphy.

Replacing a coach is more than simply some 'blue sky'. Real possiblities things could go wrong.

On the flip side of this argument a bad coach may not be able to win even with those players and so getting a new coach and potentially losing those players may be the better idea.

A good example is Kent State's womens basketball tam. Mostly the same players from last year but with a new coach made Kent go from the bottom to winning the East. A good coach can do a lot even with a more depleted roster than a truly poor coach.

The major problem of course is that you cannot always know for sure you are actually getting a good coach until all is said and done so like all things there is a risk.
03-29-2017 06:03 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Basketball transfers out
For NIU, the good news is we still have a lot of guys coming back next year. The bad news is, we have a lot of guys coming back next year.
03-29-2017 08:07 PM
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bobcat_backer Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Basketball transfers out
(03-29-2017 08:07 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  For NIU, the good news is we still have a lot of guys coming back next year. The bad news is, we have a lot of guys coming back next year.

Rimshot
03-29-2017 08:33 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Basketball transfers out
(03-29-2017 06:03 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 03:11 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 08:34 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 04:00 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  And if our new hire isn't able to somehow convince them to stay, this two-year rebuild just turned into a four-year rebuild.

I don't want to sound like a "I told you so," but that is always the risk you run with firing a coach. Granted, Cooper had every reason to be fired, but I still felt like he should've gotten one more year just to see what he could do with the Weathers' as sophomores.

And to make this a not Miami thing, and albeit different circumstances, I fully expect to see similar departures from Akron ... We'll see you at the race for the bottom next year.

I tell that to our EMU fans who want to replace Murphy.

Replacing a coach is more than simply some 'blue sky'. Real possiblities things could go wrong.

On the flip side of this argument a bad coach may not be able to win even with those players and so getting a new coach and potentially losing those players may be the better idea.

A good example is Kent State's womens basketball tam. Mostly the same players from last year but with a new coach made Kent go from the bottom to winning the East. A good coach can do a lot even with a more depleted roster than a truly poor coach.

The major problem of course is that you cannot always know for sure you are actually getting a good coach until all is said and done so like all things there is a risk.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona...rospective

I guess it could be described more easily: 20-20 hindsight.

Georgia Tech fired Brian Gregory. Brought in a new coach, Pastner, who had very little talent to work. He put in the zone defense, slowed the game down and won eight ACC games. He was expected to win NONE.

Yogi was right about making predictions about the future... 03-lmfao
03-30-2017 05:54 AM
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bobcat_backer Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Basketball transfers out
(03-30-2017 05:54 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 06:03 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(03-29-2017 03:11 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 08:34 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  
(03-28-2017 04:00 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  And if our new hire isn't able to somehow convince them to stay, this two-year rebuild just turned into a four-year rebuild.

I don't want to sound like a "I told you so," but that is always the risk you run with firing a coach. Granted, Cooper had every reason to be fired, but I still felt like he should've gotten one more year just to see what he could do with the Weathers' as sophomores.

And to make this a not Miami thing, and albeit different circumstances, I fully expect to see similar departures from Akron ... We'll see you at the race for the bottom next year.

I tell that to our EMU fans who want to replace Murphy.

Replacing a coach is more than simply some 'blue sky'. Real possiblities things could go wrong.

On the flip side of this argument a bad coach may not be able to win even with those players and so getting a new coach and potentially losing those players may be the better idea.

A good example is Kent State's womens basketball tam. Mostly the same players from last year but with a new coach made Kent go from the bottom to winning the East. A good coach can do a lot even with a more depleted roster than a truly poor coach.

The major problem of course is that you cannot always know for sure you are actually getting a good coach until all is said and done so like all things there is a risk.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona...rospective

I guess it could be described more easily: 20-20 hindsight.

Georgia Tech fired Brian Gregory. Brought in a new coach, Pastner, who had very little talent to work. He put in the zone defense, slowed the game down and won eight ACC games. He was expected to win NONE.

Yogi was right about making predictions about the future... 03-lmfao

and don't forget OHIO beat them in November 66-61. just sayin'! :-)
03-30-2017 08:20 AM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Basketball transfers out
Antino Jackson announced he will be leaving Akron. I'm honestly not surprised.
(This post was last modified: 03-30-2017 08:33 PM by kreed5120.)
03-30-2017 08:32 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Basketball transfers out
MAC MBB is really starting (continuing) to hurt.

I believe the shift of financial resources to football (away from MBB) is really being seen.

We are falling further and further behind the American, A-10, etc. as well as a conference, MWC, on the other side of the country.

I don't know if it is a Midwest thing? The Horizon League is way down.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2017 12:20 AM by emu steve.)
03-31-2017 12:15 AM
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DICK Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Basketball transfers out
Over 700 players transferred last year. Mid majors are rapidly becoming development programs for P5 schools. Cowherd says that mobility is changing America. Educated people with money are flocking to cities and financial/cultural centers. Small towns and rural areas are dieing, losing Doctors and hospitals and businesses. In college sports, players are more free to move around the country for better opportunities for themselves than ever before. An Antino Jackson or Michael Weathers can look at a rebuilding process where they are at, or perhaps a chance to go to a basketball power and play on national tv regularly and play in the NCAA.
03-31-2017 06:22 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Basketball transfers out
(03-31-2017 12:15 AM)emu steve Wrote:  MAC MBB is really starting (continuing) to hurt.

I believe the shift of financial resources to football (away from MBB) is really being seen.

We are falling further and further behind the American, A-10, etc. as well as a conference, MWC, on the other side of the country.

I don't know if it is a Midwest thing? The Horizon League is way down.

- the shift towards football happened 15yrs ago, not yesterday.
- The new ESPN contract brought more money and exposure to basketball than ever before.
- The MAC has gained on those conferences over the last 5 yrs, not slipped.
03-31-2017 07:02 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Basketball transfers out
Yep.
03-31-2017 08:21 PM
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Dwight Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Basketball transfers out
(03-31-2017 06:22 PM)DICK Wrote:  Over 700 players transferred last year. Mid majors are rapidly becoming development programs for P5 schools. Cowherd says that mobility is changing America. Educated people with money are flocking to cities and financial/cultural centers. Small towns and rural areas are dieing, losing Doctors and hospitals and businesses. In college sports, players are more free to move around the country for better opportunities for themselves than ever before. An Antino Jackson or Michael Weathers can look at a rebuilding process where they are at, or perhaps a chance to go to a basketball power and play on national tv regularly and play in the NCAA.

Yes, this does happen in the MAC, but more often players are leaving to go to less competitive schools so that they can get playing time. As for Antino Jackson, I don't think he's good enough for a program that plays regularly on nationally tv and will go to the NCAA tournament. Maybe Weathers will be, hard to tell.
03-31-2017 09:17 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Basketball transfers out
(03-31-2017 07:02 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 12:15 AM)emu steve Wrote:  MAC MBB is really starting (continuing) to hurt.

I believe the shift of financial resources to football (away from MBB) is really being seen.

We are falling further and further behind the American, A-10, etc. as well as a conference, MWC, on the other side of the country.

I don't know if it is a Midwest thing? The Horizon League is way down.

- the shift towards football happened 15yrs ago, not yesterday.
- The new ESPN contract brought more money and exposure to basketball than ever before.
- The MAC has gained on those conferences over the last 5 yrs, not slipped.

At the turn of the century the MAC was a much better MBB conference than it is today.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sag...onference/

I believe this was our 'high water mark', the MAC was #9 nationally according to Sagarin.

A decade later the MAC MBB basically gone to hell. E.g., #17 nationally in 2010/11.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sag...onference/

One could plot MAC hoops over the years using the Sagarins which go back to 1999/2000.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2017 11:29 PM by emu steve.)
03-31-2017 10:41 PM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Basketball transfers out
Between all the top talent we lost to graduation and now transfers, I'm kind of expecting the MAC to get worse before it gets any better.
03-31-2017 11:08 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Basketball transfers out
Maybe MAC MBB should adopt "The way we were" as its theme song:

These are the Sagarins from April 2000:

9 MID-AMERICAN = 77.25 76.34 ( 10) TEAMS= 13
FINAL College Basketball 1999-2000 thru Monday, April 3, 2000 (unbiased)
HOME ADVANTAGE= 4.23 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10| VS top 30
32 Kent St. = 84.54 21 8 76.11( 87) 0 0 | 0 0
45 Ball St. = 82.34 21 9 76.34( 82) 0 0 | 1 2
61 Ohio = 80.84 20 13 76.59( 74) 0 1 | 0 2
66 Bowling Green = 80.31 21 8 74.91( 115) 0 0 | 0 0
73 Toledo = 79.46 18 13 76.56( 77) 0 1 | 0 2
74 Marshall = 79.13 19 9 73.42( 140) 0 0 | 0 0
84 Miami-Ohio = 78.54 15 15 77.77( 50) 0 1 | 0 2
91 Akron = 77.91 16 11 75.04( 112) 0 0 | 0 1
122 Eastern Michigan = 75.35 13 13 76.02( 91) 0 1 | 0 1
137 Northern Illinois = 74.39 12 15 75.75( 96) 0 0 | 1 0
171 Western Michigan = 70.86 10 18 76.08( 90) 0 0 | 0 0
208 Central Michigan = 67.48 5 23 76.57( 75) 0 0 | 0 1
277 Buffalo = 61.25 5 23 75.56( 99) 0 0 | 0 2
03-31-2017 11:31 PM
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OUVan Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Basketball transfers out
(03-31-2017 07:02 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 12:15 AM)emu steve Wrote:  MAC MBB is really starting (continuing) to hurt.

I believe the shift of financial resources to football (away from MBB) is really being seen.

We are falling further and further behind the American, A-10, etc. as well as a conference, MWC, on the other side of the country.

I don't know if it is a Midwest thing? The Horizon League is way down.

- the shift towards football happened 15yrs ago, not yesterday.
- The new ESPN contract brought more money and exposure to basketball than ever before.
- The MAC has gained on those conferences over the last 5 yrs, not slipped.

-Just over 15 years ago we had our last at-large bid. 16 years ago we had a team make the Elite Eight. In the last 14 seasons only one conference team has won a game in the tournament. From 1998-2003 the conference had four different teams win 8 games in the tournament.
-The ESPN contract brought more money and exposure but every other conference got packages as well. Take a look at the basketball expenditures and you'll see that while we received more money we still lag in comparison.
- The conferences we've gained on are coming back to us because their best teams keep moving to bigger conferences. We aren't really gaining on anybody.

This past season we didn't have as many bad teams so our metrics looked acceptable but we didn't have one good team. Not one. The number of quality wins during the OOC season could be counted on one finger. Don't get me wrong, I love watching MAC basketball but we were not relevant on the national stage this year.
04-01-2017 12:53 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Basketball transfers out
I agree with you, OUVan.

No one cares about the bottom 1/3 of the conference, but people do carry about those 'carrying water' for the conference, usually the top teams, usually around two or three or even four teams.

That should be the top couple teams who represent us at the NCAAs and NIT.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2017 12:59 PM by emu steve.)
04-01-2017 12:58 PM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Basketball transfers out
The problem is so many teams are content with there standing in the MAC and don't really care to improve. That's why every year it's the same 4 teams battling it out for the MAC auto-bid. If more programs strived to be better, we'd most likely would have stumbled upon an at-large bid by now. Dambrot's Akron teams would never good enough to get the wins OOC needed, but they certainly did well enough to provide quality win opportunities to another team that did.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2017 01:56 PM by kreed5120.)
04-01-2017 01:53 PM
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pono Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Basketball transfers out
Point 1) The MAC may have been weak toward the top but the wins over at Ga. Tech, Texas and Houston all have to be considered legit.

2) The bottom third of the MAC was better than average this year. Although, that's nothing to open champagne over.

3) The Antino Jackson and Josh Williams transfers are no big deal. Jackson was an undersized hit or miss player who had a free run of the court under Dambrot always played loose and a could play little above his level on good nights. He is very replaceable. Plenty of good fast undersized and underrated guards on the recruiting trail if that's your thing (Dambrot likes em).

4) The Weathers transfers are worse as the PG twin gave the worst team in the league a pretty big time player running the show. I think there's a chance he stays if the new coach can re-recruit him back, unless the issue is more the school than the team.

5) The MAC keeps adding transfers too. Buffalo and Toledo got some great JUCO and D1 transfers coming in and there will be a little run on grad transfers from big programs looking for a starting role on a mid major in the coming month or two.
04-02-2017 01:27 AM
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