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Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-13-2017 10:15 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  When I said the AAC was trending that way, I meant they were on a trajectory to be a typical better mid-major, where one school will dominate, and a second might rise to challenge from time to time. Adding or losing a school wont change the dynamic for long, maybe a couple years. The American rode the Big East for almost a half dozen years, but they have drifted back into the mid-major group. Memphis and Temple are no longer a powers (hello UNLV and New Mexico irrelevance), Central and South Florida never were much, nor ECU, Tulsa, or Tulane, while UConn has faded like SDSU. American fans are blind to this, because they perceive themselves better than the other mid-majors. They don't recognize the longer historical mid-major experience now applies to them (IMO because they came from the big East and they used to be a power conference).

No the AAC really is "different" from the MWC or MVC.

AAC schools have HUGE budgets and the will to pay their coaches several million dollars. The problem in FB is it still doesn't matter because they will lose their coaches to the big boys (70,000+ seater P5s) but in basketball its not a serious threat.

Memphis, Cincinnati and UConn have done so much in basketball to the point where they will always be attractive recruiting destinations. CUSA 2.0 had Memphis. CUSA 1.0 had Memphis and Cincinnati but the AAC has Memphis, Cincinnati and UConn.

The AAC has major conference TV windows. CBS was showing SMU, Cincinnati and UConn OTA on Saturdays this year. FB has a good amount of ESPN exposure and doesn't have to play mid week like the MAC.

Power Five (PAC, ACC, B1G, B12, SEC)
High Major (BE, AAC, some A10, some WCC, Wichita St)
Mid Major (everyone else)

That is about where we are at now. If the AAC could add Wichita, Dayton and VCU it would consolidate the basketball power even further.

The MAC outside of Wichita State is now paying higher salaries than the MVC. This is a big change from a few years ago. The two leagues are closer in strength than what they've been in 15 years.

The MWC having Utah flip to the PAC is a huge loss in strength. They'll have to fight to stay in the Top 10 now.
03-14-2017 08:40 AM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-13-2017 11:03 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Mid major conferences don't win national championships in any major sports. (Football and men's basketball). EVER. It's never happened. Except the AAC has won one in men's basketball. A conference that wins a natty is not a "mid major". Now maybe there is some other appropriate term other than power, but it's not mid major.

That's not really true. Now the definition of which conference is a "mid-major" has changed a lot over the years (case in point at one time the MVC was probably the third best conference in basketball). But in the last 40 years, since the NCAA started taking at large bids, Marquette, Louisville (twice), Georgetown, and UNLV won titles outside of major conferences. Now to your point, Louisville and Georgetown winning it all in 80 and 84 respectively, helped improve the statuses of their conferences to where they were considered major conferences, but not Marquette or UNLV.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2017 08:42 AM by adcorbett.)
03-14-2017 08:41 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 07:49 AM)orangefan Wrote:  I don't think that you can blame the committee for this trend. The only glaring omission from the tournament among the mid majors was Illinois State, which in my view should have been invited over any of the bubble power conference schools. The power conferences appear to be getting stronger relative to the mid majors. This is likely due to wise spending of the additional money that they are generating under new TV deals, for instance on coaches and facilities. Plus the power conferences are getting a ton more TV exposure. The worst school in a power conference gets more air time than the best school in a mid major conference.

I don't know about that as Akron had quite a lot of national TV coverage this year out of the MAC. AAC has plenty of resources for basketball.

The MWC and MVC were hit hard in realignment losing their best basketball programs with mediocre replacements.

Big East as has been said did a mop up job adding Creighton, Xavier and Butler into its ranks. Losses of those programs hurt their former conferences ability to put additional teams into the NCAAs.

A10 got lucky with VCU which has helped to replace the Xavier loss.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2017 08:50 AM by Kittonhead.)
03-14-2017 08:49 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
It's not like the mid-majors got a lot of love from the NIT either. The top 16 seeded teams in the NIT include 10 from P5 conferences, 5 from the mid-majors and one AQ (Monmouth, a #4 seed).

The 5 mid-majors are stacked in two brackets. #1 seed California is the only P5 school in its bracket. Would appear the committee is trying hard to make sure at least one mid-major gets to Madison Square Garden.
03-14-2017 09:02 AM
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Steve1981 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
The A10 continues to do quite well with 3 teams in this year, which is back down to it's average. The thing with the A10, there are always a number of solid team and depending on the year if they make the NCAA, NIT or CBI.

This is focused on NCAA Credit since teams keep 75% of credits earn.

Atlantic 10 Units
2007: 3 (Xavier 2, Geo. Wash. 1)
2008: 6 (Xavier 4, Temple 1, St. Joe's 1)
2009: 6 (Xavier 3, Dayton 2, Temple 1)
2010: 5 (Xavier 3, Temple 1, Rich. 1)
2011: 6 (Rich. 3, Temple 2, Xavier 1)
2012: 7 (Xavier 3, SLU 2, St. Bona. 1, Temple 1)
2013: 12 (LaSalle 4, SLU 2, Butler 2, Temple 2, VCU 2)
2014: 10 (Dayton 4, Saint Louis 2, St Joe's 1, VCU 1, UMass 1, GW 1)
2015: 5 (Dayton 3, VCU 1, Davidson 1)
2016: 5 (Dayton 1, VCU 2, St Joe's 2)
2017: # (Dayton ?, VCU ?, URI ?)

What is bad by the NCAA Committee is they put mid-majors against mid-majors so they are knocked down early and protect the P5.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2017 09:10 AM by Steve1981.)
03-14-2017 09:05 AM
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ivet Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 08:40 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Power Five (PAC, ACC, B1G, B12, SEC)
High Major (BE, AAC, some A10, some WCC, Wichita St)
Mid Major (everyone else)

Your grouping would seem to contradict this thread seeing how the Big East has 7 teams dancing.
03-14-2017 09:08 AM
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Hank Schrader Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
03-14-2017 09:15 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 09:08 AM)ivet Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 08:40 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Power Five (PAC, ACC, B1G, B12, SEC)
High Major (BE, AAC, some A10, some WCC, Wichita St)
Mid Major (everyone else)

Your grouping would seem to contradict this thread seeing how the Big East has 7 teams dancing.

The BE had a ton of bids this year but its not a P5 conference.

High Major in the way I'm looking at it is the same thing as P5 caliber basketball so it wasn't designed to be a slight.

Dayton, VCU and Wichita where their programs are at the moment is equivalent to the BE. Same with Gonzaga, St. Mary's ect. Most of their members no.
03-14-2017 09:19 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 09:15 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  Ken Pomeroy has a theory...

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/spo..._like.html

The selection committee at one time had a factor of how a school did it it's last 10 games.

This would favor a mid major who was 8-2 down the stretch over a P5 with a 4-4 record. Second bids would happen once in a while for traditional one bid conferences when this rule was in place. But they removed it.

They should require .500 in conference play (including conference tourney) for at-large teams & review of last 10 games for schools on the bubble.
03-14-2017 09:30 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 08:49 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 07:49 AM)orangefan Wrote:  I don't think that you can blame the committee for this trend. The only glaring omission from the tournament among the mid majors was Illinois State, which in my view should have been invited over any of the bubble power conference schools. The power conferences appear to be getting stronger relative to the mid majors. This is likely due to wise spending of the additional money that they are generating under new TV deals, for instance on coaches and facilities. Plus the power conferences are getting a ton more TV exposure. The worst school in a power conference gets more air time than the best school in a mid major conference.

I don't know about that as Akron had quite a lot of national TV coverage this year out of the MAC. AAC has plenty of resources for basketball.

The MWC and MVC were hit hard in realignment losing their best basketball programs with mediocre replacements.

Big East as has been said did a mop up job adding Creighton, Xavier and Butler into its ranks. Losses of those programs hurt their former conferences ability to put additional teams into the NCAAs.

A10 got lucky with VCU which has helped to replace the Xavier loss.

I would agree that the AAC has pretty good resources and would observe that their TV contract provides decent exposure, even if the money hasn't been great.

I don't think there was anything lucky about the VCU addition, though. They've had a strong program for a while. Perhaps lucky in that Shaka Smart's replacement has maintained the program's quality level.
03-14-2017 09:30 AM
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