RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
We lost the last two games by a combined 71 points. The players claimed they didn't quit. So that seems to mean that they are not any good. Why are we so worried about losing any of them? I guess we can blame the coaching, but he's not going anywhere for at least 2 more years maybe more. Let him bring in his hard charging 2 and 3 stars. Maybe we can have a few more moral victories next year. The little old ladies who miss Josh will soon come back to the fold. Or maybe not.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 10:00 AM by VinnieVegas.)
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-12-2017 02:12 PM)tigersroll Wrote: Watching other teams play conf tourneys, it's obvious to me that we could not impose anything that well could do well on the opposition this year. My question is this.....If we have starter players returning like Markel, K.J. and Jeremiah, what can we expect and should we expect anything different or better?
I just don't see the guard play, defense, shooting, inside play that would give anyone optimism.
So, would it be good for the aforementioned players to return? or would you rather see freshmen players like Enoch, Nickelberry, and Johnson develop and blend with returning players like Clergeot, Randall, Rivers, etc...
We need a culture change. We need energy, skill and big time playmakers. I'm just unsure it could happen with certain players returning. What do yall think?
Not many legitimate players want to belong to a program with a 'daddy' on staff. Time to stop acting like an AAU program.
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-15-2017 10:16 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:07 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote: Not many legitimate players want to belong to a program with a 'daddy' on staff.
Except for Kansas and Danny Manning/Ed Manning.
Or Memphis with DaJuan Wagner/Milt Wagner.
Or Wake Forest with Randolph Childress/Brandon Childress.
Or Washington next year with Michael Porter, Sr./Michael Porter, Jr.
Or Kentucky with Tubby Smith/Saul Smith.
Or Valpo with Homer Drew/Bryce Drew.
Other than those and many more examples, you're exactly right.
Of those and many more examples, Danny Manning is the only one who made a difference. I don't remember Memphis getting the #2 rated player in the nation in our deal. In fact, 2nd year of the 'arrangement' hasn't done anything for the program.
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-15-2017 10:32 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:16 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:07 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote: Not many legitimate players want to belong to a program with a 'daddy' on staff.
Except for Kansas and Danny Manning/Ed Manning.
Or Memphis with DaJuan Wagner/Milt Wagner.
Or Wake Forest with Randolph Childress/Brandon Childress.
Or Washington next year with Michael Porter, Sr./Michael Porter, Jr.
Or Kentucky with Tubby Smith/Saul Smith.
Or Valpo with Homer Drew/Bryce Drew.
Other than those and many more examples, you're exactly right.
Of those and many more examples, Danny Manning is the only one who made a difference. I don't remember Memphis getting the #2 rated player in the nation in our deal. In fact, 2nd year of the 'arrangement' hasn't done anything for the program.
Oh, so now we're talking about deep NCAA runs and/or top 10 players.
No one will want to play on a good NCAA team with a father on staff, not just an NCAA tournament team like Valpo or Wake or Kentucky, but a deep run team.
Gotcha, didn't know the goalposts were getting moved on this discussion.
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-15-2017 10:37 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:34 AM)VinnieVegas Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:16 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:07 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote: Not many legitimate players want to belong to a program with a 'daddy' on staff. [/b]
Except for Kansas and Danny Manning/Ed Manning.
Best example. But Danny was a hall of famer if he don't blow out his knee
Or Memphis with DaJuan Wagner/Milt Wagner.
Caused turmoil. Although Calipari IMO did the right thing trying to change the losing culture
Or Wake Forest with Randolph Childress/Brandon Childress.
Wake is this years Texas Tech. Shouldn't have gotten in
Or Washington next year with Michael Porter, Sr./Michael Porter, Jr.
How that guy keeps his job is mind boggling
Or Kentucky with Tubby Smith/Saul Smith.
Was a disaster. But Tubby thought Saul would be to UK what GG was to UGA
Other than those and many more examples, you're exactly right.
So 1 of those really worked out
Define "worked out".
All I know is the statement was to the effect that no one wanted to play on a team with a father as a coach.
I just think that's a little short-sighted and without sourcing is all.
Sure, I guess so, ONLY one team has won a title with a father/son staff.
LOL
Reading comprehension is fundamental. Amigo. From 'not many' to 'no one'. Fake news.
Signing a guy like Manning or Porter might make it worthwhile, because they can be considered program changers. Our "arrangement" hasn't resulted in a sniff at the tourney.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 10:43 AM by midtowncowboy.)
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-15-2017 10:37 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:34 AM)VinnieVegas Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:16 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:07 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote: Not many legitimate players want to belong to a program with a 'daddy' on staff.
Except for Kansas and Danny Manning/Ed Manning.
Best example. But Danny was a hall of famer if he don't blow out his knee
Or Memphis with DaJuan Wagner/Milt Wagner.
Caused turmoil. Although Calipari IMO did the right thing trying to change the losing culture
Or Wake Forest with Randolph Childress/Brandon Childress.
Wake is this years Texas Tech. Shouldn't have gotten in
Or Washington next year with Michael Porter, Sr./Michael Porter, Jr.
How that guy keeps his job is mind boggling
Or Kentucky with Tubby Smith/Saul Smith.
Was a disaster. But Tubby thought Saul would be to UK what GG was to UGA
Other than those and many more examples, you're exactly right.
So 1 of those really worked out
Define "worked out".
All I know is the statement was to the effect that no one wanted to play on a team with a father as a coach.
I just think that's a little short-sighted and without sourcing is all.
Sure, I guess so, ONLY one team has won a title with a father/son staff.
LOL
None of the others even got to a sweet 16 and most are in the same boat we are in. If you want to say Wake had a great year because nerds like Lunardi and Palm like them go ahead. Plus none of those examples involved TWO players
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 10:44 AM by VinnieVegas.)
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-15-2017 10:32 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote: In fact, 2nd year of the 'arrangement' hasn't done anything for the program.
Last year was Josh - that's obvious to anyone with a brain.
This year, Tubby surrounded Dedric and KJ with a guy who had never played college basketball because of injuries, a true freshman ranked outside the top 100, and a Coppin State transfer.
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-15-2017 10:43 AM)VinnieVegas Wrote: None of the others even got to a sweet 16 and most are in the same boat we are in. If you want to say Wake had a great year because nerds like Lunardi and Palm like them go ahead
And?
Would they have had better years WITHOUT the father/son combinations?
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-15-2017 10:46 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:43 AM)VinnieVegas Wrote: None of the others even got to a sweet 16 and most are in the same boat we are in. If you want to say Wake had a great year because nerds like Lunardi and Palm like them go ahead
And?
Would they have had better years WITHOUT the father/son combinations?
I think it was a short-sighted statement.
If you're not gonna make the tournament it's either
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-15-2017 10:50 AM)VinnieVegas Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:46 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:43 AM)VinnieVegas Wrote: None of the others even got to a sweet 16 and most are in the same boat we are in. If you want to say Wake had a great year because nerds like Lunardi and Palm like them go ahead
And?
Would they have had better years WITHOUT the father/son combinations?
I think it was a short-sighted statement.
If you're not gonna make the tournament it's either
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-15-2017 10:35 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:32 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:16 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:07 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote: Not many legitimate players want to belong to a program with a 'daddy' on staff.
Except for Kansas and Danny Manning/Ed Manning.
Or Memphis with DaJuan Wagner/Milt Wagner.
Or Wake Forest with Randolph Childress/Brandon Childress.
Or Washington next year with Michael Porter, Sr./Michael Porter, Jr.
Or Kentucky with Tubby Smith/Saul Smith.
Or Valpo with Homer Drew/Bryce Drew.
Other than those and many more examples, you're exactly right.
Of those and many more examples, Danny Manning is the only one who made a difference. I don't remember Memphis getting the #2 rated player in the nation in our deal. In fact, 2nd year of the 'arrangement' hasn't done anything for the program.
Oh, so now we're talking about deep NCAA runs and/or top 10 players.
No one will want to play on a good NCAA team with a father on staff, not just an NCAA tournament team like Valpo or Wake or Kentucky, but a deep run team.
Gotcha, didn't know the goalposts were getting moved on this discussion.
Well, he did say "not many legitimate" and you seem to have moved the goalposts to "no one" at all. And you go back 30 years to make a point - when I thought it was widely accepted here that the last 10 years are all that matter.
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-15-2017 11:15 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:50 AM)VinnieVegas Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:46 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:43 AM)VinnieVegas Wrote: None of the others even got to a sweet 16 and most are in the same boat we are in. If you want to say Wake had a great year because nerds like Lunardi and Palm like them go ahead
And?
Would they have had better years WITHOUT the father/son combinations?
I think it was a short-sighted statement.
If you're not gonna make the tournament it's either
A. Coach sucks
B. Players overrated
C. All of the above
I'd go with answer C
Allsome
I need more than A. and B.
--- C. AD who was hired not to care. D. President/boosters focused on FB and getting in power con. E. Boosters couldn't agree F. JP injured program G. Cal didn't call a time out then left us H Chalmers hit the shot
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-13-2017 05:00 PM)bluebacker Wrote:
(03-13-2017 04:59 PM)tigersroll Wrote:
(03-13-2017 04:39 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:
(03-13-2017 01:57 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:
(03-12-2017 02:12 PM)tigersroll Wrote: Watching other teams play conf tourneys, it's obvious to me that we could not impose anything that well could do well on the opposition this year. My question is this.....If we have starter players returning like Markel, K.J. and Jeremiah, what can we expect and should we expect anything different or better?
I just don't see the guard play, defense, shooting, inside play that would give anyone optimism.
So, would it be good for the aforementioned players to return? or would you rather see freshmen players like Enoch, Nickelberry, and Johnson develop and blend with returning players like Clergeot, Randall, Rivers, etc...
We need a culture change. We need energy, skill and big time playmakers. I'm just unsure it could happen with certain players returning. What do yall think?
We need everything.
A Point guard who can take it to the hole, who can hit the open man, hit a consistent jump shot and run the offense.
A two guard who can shoot and take it to the hole.
A big ugly at center/PF
Start there and see what we can do.
Yeah I started posting something like this earlier in another thread. It's unfortunate this is the state of the program, but it is what it is. This team is missing so many pieces. The guys we add for next year better be able to take it to the rack, pop a 3 and play some defense. Otherwise...get ready for more of the same next season or worse. We lack depth, but even worse, the guys getting PT have almost no distinguishable skills relative to their competition.
Exactly. I am most interested to see the skillset of the newcomers only because I know the returning guys as not as skilled as most think they are. Nickelberry appears to have playmaking ability. Hopefully Johnson can shoot and Enoch is a Cincy type player with a big man's edge. All of these player need to have some "dog" in them and skills to match. If we do have players returning expecting heavy minutes, I hope they are either challenged or beaten out by the newcomers. This team needs an extreme makeover.
Those guys are Freshmen. Think Clergeot.
This is a fair point. We should probably keep our expectations in check, but almost every time we've made a run in the tournament, we've had an impact freshman/newcomer. I'm not saying Tubby can recruit on that level, but surely we can land 1 stud freshman/transfer. Everyone else who is anybody does it. If you can't, Memphis is probably the wrong job for you.
The 4 year player approach seems to work for the Butler's and VCU's of the world so maybe it can work for us. That strategy will take time though. And you better have buy in from your players or you'll end up with Pastner player exodus all over again. I guess the good side of that is you probably won't have other teams clamoring over your 3 star recruits.
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-15-2017 04:42 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:35 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:32 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:16 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:
(03-15-2017 10:07 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote: Not many legitimate players want to belong to a program with a 'daddy' on staff.
Except for Kansas and Danny Manning/Ed Manning.
Or Memphis with DaJuan Wagner/Milt Wagner.
Or Wake Forest with Randolph Childress/Brandon Childress.
Or Washington next year with Michael Porter, Sr./Michael Porter, Jr.
Or Kentucky with Tubby Smith/Saul Smith.
Or Valpo with Homer Drew/Bryce Drew.
Other than those and many more examples, you're exactly right.
Of those and many more examples, Danny Manning is the only one who made a difference. I don't remember Memphis getting the #2 rated player in the nation in our deal. In fact, 2nd year of the 'arrangement' hasn't done anything for the program.
Oh, so now we're talking about deep NCAA runs and/or top 10 players.
No one will want to play on a good NCAA team with a father on staff, not just an NCAA tournament team like Valpo or Wake or Kentucky, but a deep run team.
Gotcha, didn't know the goalposts were getting moved on this discussion.
Well, he did say "not many legitimate" and you seem to have moved the goalposts to "no one" at all. And you go back 30 years to make a point - when I thought it was widely accepted here that the last 10 years are all that matter.
So, yeah.
And the Childress father/son was this year.
And the Porters will be next year.
Pretty sure that's within the last 10 years, maybe even within the last year...if my fuzzy math is correct.
And there are more and in other sports - Stockstill had his son starting at QB at MTSU for a bowl team or two.
I'm sure with a little digging more could be found as well.
RE: What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
(03-16-2017 08:38 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:
(03-13-2017 05:00 PM)bluebacker Wrote:
(03-13-2017 04:59 PM)tigersroll Wrote:
(03-13-2017 04:39 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:
(03-13-2017 01:57 PM)Tiger46 Wrote: We need everything.
A Point guard who can take it to the hole, who can hit the open man, hit a consistent jump shot and run the offense.
A two guard who can shoot and take it to the hole.
A big ugly at center/PF
Start there and see what we can do.
Yeah I started posting something like this earlier in another thread. It's unfortunate this is the state of the program, but it is what it is. This team is missing so many pieces. The guys we add for next year better be able to take it to the rack, pop a 3 and play some defense. Otherwise...get ready for more of the same next season or worse. We lack depth, but even worse, the guys getting PT have almost no distinguishable skills relative to their competition.
Exactly. I am most interested to see the skillset of the newcomers only because I know the returning guys as not as skilled as most think they are. Nickelberry appears to have playmaking ability. Hopefully Johnson can shoot and Enoch is a Cincy type player with a big man's edge. All of these player need to have some "dog" in them and skills to match. If we do have players returning expecting heavy minutes, I hope they are either challenged or beaten out by the newcomers. This team needs an extreme makeover.
Those guys are Freshmen. Think Clergeot.
This is a fair point. We should probably keep our expectations in check, but almost every time we've made a run in the tournament, we've had an impact freshman/newcomer. I'm not saying Tubby can recruit on that level, but surely we can land 1 stud freshman/transfer. Everyone else who is anybody does it. If you can't, Memphis is probably the wrong job for you.
The 4 year player approach seems to work for the Butler's and VCU's of the world so maybe it can work for us. That strategy will take time though. And you better have buy in from your players or you'll end up with Pastner player exodus all over again. I guess the good side of that is you probably won't have other teams clamoring over your 3 star recruits.
It does take a lot longer to do it this way. It can be done but if that was the plan then this this year was just a throwaway? Clergeot was the only freshman and he barely played.
You have to go get 7-8 freshmen. Play them, lose with them, and boil it down and see what you've got.
The next season you do the same thing with 5-6 freshmen to go with your now sophomores from the year before (probably lose a couple to attrition.) Hopefully you win a few more games but it probably still isn't a great season.
The next year you should have a solid rotation of sophomores and juniors and at this point maybe you add a rental player or two to fill a specific need / recruiting miss. Should probably be in NCAA or at least deep NIT run in preparation for a breakout season. At this point you should be able to run a meaningful practice where your starters / rotation player actually get a workout in practice rather than just face rolling walk-ons.
By the 4th year you should have 6-7 solid juniors / seniors a couple of sophomores who can play / a couple of freshmen who can play and a special juco or grad transfer that you can sell a deep NCAA run to so they come to your program. If your plan is going to work you should be rolling at this point.
I guess this could work but Tubby is not a young man who's going to stick around long term. I guess we're going to find out but much of the fan base is already thin on patience......
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2017 09:02 AM by bluebacker.)
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What do we do well?? What to expect next year.....
