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California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
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EverRespect Offline
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California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
Quote:Exposing a person to HIV is treated more seriously under California law than infecting someone with any other communicable disease, a policy some lawmakers say is a relic of the decades-old AIDS scare that unfairly punishes HIV-positive people based on outdated science.

Several lawmakers are promoting a bill by state Sen. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, that would make it a misdemeanor instead of a felony to intentionally expose someone to HIV, the virus that causes the immune system-weakening disease AIDS. The change would treat HIV like other communicable diseases under California law.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/article137308...rylink=cpy

Can we assume now that anyone with the name "Wiener" is a pervert?
03-09-2017 08:51 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
Most STD's are not nearly as severe as HIV. If you get HIV in your 20's and you go through all the right treatments your life is still likey going to be cut 15-20 years short.

If you knowingly expose someone to HIV without telling them you're basically playing with their life. A harsher sentence than say, the clap, is appropriate.
03-09-2017 09:12 AM
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gdunn Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
No. While there have been enormous advances in medicine to treat this illness, if someone does not disclose to a partner they're positive, that person is basically a dead person walking.

I am curious as to what those who are still single and promiscuous say about it.
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2017 09:25 AM by gdunn.)
03-09-2017 09:24 AM
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Paul M Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
Messed up. This isn't on par with the relatively minor inconvenience as a visit to your doctor or free county health dept. for a shot.
03-09-2017 09:40 AM
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
(03-09-2017 09:12 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Most STD's are not nearly as severe as HIV. If you get HIV in your 20's and you go through all the right treatments your life is still likey going to be cut 15-20 years short.

If you knowingly expose someone to HIV without telling them you're basically playing with their life. A harsher sentence than say, the clap, is appropriate.

Worth noting those treatments are expensive as phuck so you are not only cutting theior lives short, you are crip[pling them financially.
03-09-2017 09:53 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
(03-09-2017 09:24 AM)gdunn Wrote:  No. While there have been enormous advances in medicine to treat this illness, if someone does not disclose to a partner they're positive, that person is basically a dead person walking.

I am curious as to what those who are still single and promiscuous say about it.

You're missing a larger point. The problem with this law is that it places a greater barrier on those that get tested. This can cause certain persons to avoid being tested, most notably prostitutes and those who are highly sexually active. It would still be illegal, but not a felony.

Everyone should disclose. I don't know where the middle ground lies, but simply creating disincentives for people to get tested and more importantly treated (where they will be far less likely to transmit HIV - which appears to be far less communicable if someone is on anti retroviral meds) is something that is a concern.

This law maintains criminal sanctions without making it a felony. I expect it will pass.
03-09-2017 11:41 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
(03-09-2017 11:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-09-2017 09:24 AM)gdunn Wrote:  No. While there have been enormous advances in medicine to treat this illness, if someone does not disclose to a partner they're positive, that person is basically a dead person walking.

I am curious as to what those who are still single and promiscuous say about it.

You're missing a larger point. The problem with this law is that it places a greater barrier on those that get tested.

That's a decent point Tom, I'm not sure it convinces me that exposing someone to HIV *knowingly* and *without disclosure* is not far more serious an infraction than chlamydia.

Quote:This can cause certain persons to avoid being tested, most notably prostitutes and those who are highly sexually active. It would still be illegal, but not a felony.

I get prostitutes, but highly sexual active? what in the world does being highly sexually active have to do with anything.

Quote:Everyone should disclose. I don't know where the middle ground lies, but simply creating disincentives for people to get tested and more importantly treated (where they will be far less likely to transmit HIV - which appears to be far less communicable if someone is on anti retroviral meds) is something that is a concern.


At least you're looking for a middle ground and making a good case for it +1
03-09-2017 11:50 AM
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Paul M Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
Not a crime to get tested. A crime to knowingly pass it on. Jezz Tom.
03-09-2017 11:50 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
(03-09-2017 11:50 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Not a crime to get tested. A crime to knowingly pass it on. Jezz Tom.

There is something to his "prostitutes" angle. I mean if you are a sex worker you already face some minor sanction for the act. But if you know you have HIV that goes from a minor crime to a felony. This *could* make sex workers less likely to get tested.

And the pervs using those sex workers create another vector to spread the disease.
03-09-2017 11:53 AM
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
(03-09-2017 11:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-09-2017 09:24 AM)gdunn Wrote:  No. While there have been enormous advances in medicine to treat this illness, if someone does not disclose to a partner they're positive, that person is basically a dead person walking.

I am curious as to what those who are still single and promiscuous say about it.

You're missing a larger point. The problem with this law is that it places a greater barrier on those that get tested. This can cause certain persons to avoid being tested, most notably prostitutes and those who are highly sexually active. It would still be illegal, but not a felony.

Everyone should disclose. I don't know where the middle ground lies, but simply creating disincentives for people to get tested and more importantly treated (where they will be far less likely to transmit HIV - which appears to be far less communicable if someone is on anti retroviral meds) is something that is a concern.

This law maintains criminal sanctions without making it a felony. I expect it will pass.

if you created "discentives" for every type of crime there would only be one law...murder.

Yeah sorry your child was kidnapped, raped, and tortured, but we are only going to give the perpetrator a 10 year sentence because if we had a law requiring stiff penalties he would have just murdered the child to increase his chances of not getting caught. But hey we are fully confident he won't do it again 11 years from now.

I understand the positives of the "discentives" argument. but it still comes down to using one bad idea to solve another bad idea.

just make another law saying prostitutes who don't get tested will get even stiffer penalties. or just legalize the damn thing so it can be properly regulated and taxed.
03-09-2017 11:53 AM
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LeFlâneur Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
(03-09-2017 11:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You're missing a larger point. The problem with this law is that it places a greater barrier on those that get tested. This can cause certain persons to avoid being tested, most notably prostitutes and those who are highly sexually active. It would still be illegal, but not a felony.

Anyone who would avoid getting tested for those reasons has to be incredibly stupid. That or you're suggesting they would rather die than stop having sex.

Well maybe there are a few but our society would be better off without them.
03-09-2017 11:55 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
(03-09-2017 11:53 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(03-09-2017 11:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-09-2017 09:24 AM)gdunn Wrote:  No. While there have been enormous advances in medicine to treat this illness, if someone does not disclose to a partner they're positive, that person is basically a dead person walking.

I am curious as to what those who are still single and promiscuous say about it.

You're missing a larger point. The problem with this law is that it places a greater barrier on those that get tested. This can cause certain persons to avoid being tested, most notably prostitutes and those who are highly sexually active. It would still be illegal, but not a felony.

Everyone should disclose. I don't know where the middle ground lies, but simply creating disincentives for people to get tested and more importantly treated (where they will be far less likely to transmit HIV - which appears to be far less communicable if someone is on anti retroviral meds) is something that is a concern.

This law maintains criminal sanctions without making it a felony. I expect it will pass.

if you created "discentives" for every type of crime there would only be one law...murder.

Yeah sorry your child was kidnapped, raped, and tortured, but we are only going to give the perpetrator a 10 year sentence because if we had a law requiring stiff penalties he would have just murdered the child to increase his chances of not getting caught. But hey we are fully confident he won't do it again 11 years from now.

I understand the positives of the "discentives" argument. but it still comes down to using one bad idea to solve another bad idea.

just make another law saying prostitutes who don't get tested will get even stiffer penalties. or just legalize the damn thing so it can be properly regulated and taxed.

Again, I support the changes to the CA law. I think that in the case above, the jail sentence would be much higher, as HIV status still CAN be brought into factor in sentencing. This law doesn't prohibit higher penalties for infecting someone during the course of another criminal act, but rather doesn't make the infection itself (barring the absence of another crime) a felony.

This issue was really a problem during the 80s and 90s. When you could get fired for simply being HIV positive.....why get tested? If a positive result could land you in an internment camp (as people such as Mike Huckabee and others were claiming), why get tested. When you could lose your health insurance for a positive diagnosis, why get tested? To this day, I have friends who won't let their openly Gay Primary Care Physicians administer them an HIV test. They go to Planned Parenthood and do it anonymously.
03-09-2017 12:04 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #13
RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
(03-09-2017 11:53 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(03-09-2017 11:50 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Not a crime to get tested. A crime to knowingly pass it on. Jezz Tom.

There is something to his "prostitutes" angle. I mean if you are a sex worker you already face some minor sanction for the act. But if you know you have HIV that goes from a minor crime to a felony. This *could* make sex workers less likely to get tested.

And the pervs using those sex workers create another vector to spread the disease.

Sorry, but knowingly passing it is a felony. You aren't disincentivising anyone. You are legalizing spreading AIDS, or turning into a slap on the wrist. If you engage in such high risk behavior, such as gay prostitution, which is in itself illegal, and don't want to get tested, you aren't likely to live very long. That's on you. If you want to have bareback sex with a gay prostitute and you get AIDS, that is on you. If you meet someone at a bar and have sex with them after they tell you they are disease free, hetero or homo, and they give you AIDS, that is criminal. I'm sorry, but I am not willing to put people at risk with no recourse to protect prostitutes and their clientelle.
03-09-2017 12:08 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
(03-09-2017 11:55 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  
(03-09-2017 11:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You're missing a larger point. The problem with this law is that it places a greater barrier on those that get tested. This can cause certain persons to avoid being tested, most notably prostitutes and those who are highly sexually active. It would still be illegal, but not a felony.

Anyone who would avoid getting tested for those reasons has to be incredibly stupid. That or you're suggesting they would rather die than stop having sex.

Well maybe there are a few but our society would be better off without them.

That was the attitude taken by Ronald Reagan and the evangelicals during the 80s and 90s. But of course, that just caused the disease to spread as people didn't get tested, didn't get treated. And yes (to the cheers of some evangelicals) 350,000 Gay Americans died. And to some, they felt that society was better off without them.

But know this....the majority of people having Gay sex....are still in the closet (with wives). And that number of people probably pales in comparison to the number of straight persons having sex with prostitutes. And then there's the drug issue too.

Your line of thinking was precisely what caused AIDS to explode. Let them die doesn't work against a disease with long incubation periods and impacting marginalized groups.
03-09-2017 12:11 PM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
(03-09-2017 11:53 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(03-09-2017 11:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-09-2017 09:24 AM)gdunn Wrote:  No. While there have been enormous advances in medicine to treat this illness, if someone does not disclose to a partner they're positive, that person is basically a dead person walking.

I am curious as to what those who are still single and promiscuous say about it.

You're missing a larger point. The problem with this law is that it places a greater barrier on those that get tested. This can cause certain persons to avoid being tested, most notably prostitutes and those who are highly sexually active. It would still be illegal, but not a felony.

Everyone should disclose. I don't know where the middle ground lies, but simply creating disincentives for people to get tested and more importantly treated (where they will be far less likely to transmit HIV - which appears to be far less communicable if someone is on anti retroviral meds) is something that is a concern.

This law maintains criminal sanctions without making it a felony. I expect it will pass.

if you created "discentives" for every type of crime there would only be one law...murder.

Yeah sorry your child was kidnapped, raped, and tortured, but we are only going to give the perpetrator a 10 year sentence because if we had a law requiring stiff penalties he would have just murdered the child to increase his chances of not getting caught. But hey we are fully confident he won't do it again 11 years from now.

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03-09-2017 12:17 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
I think what people need to look at when attempting to look at this issue is this

What problem are we trying to solve here? If its 'our infection rates are too high and they appear to remain too high', then the CA bill is probably a step in the right direction. If its 'lets punish people for having sex by reveling in them getting a preventable disease from having sex', well then that's probably not going to result in a better public health outcome.
03-09-2017 12:24 PM
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Post: #17
RE: California lawmakers want to repeal HIV criminalization laws
(03-09-2017 12:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I think what people need to look at when attempting to look at this issue is this

What problem are we trying to solve here? If its 'our infection rates are too high and they appear to remain too high', then the CA bill is probably a step in the right direction. If its 'lets punish people for having sex by reveling in them getting a preventable disease from having sex', well then that's probably not going to result in a better public health outcome.

Like you said, somewhere, there has to be some middle ground on this. I don't know exactly what it is, but there are people that are not victims of the sex trade or just oversexed fiends who knowingly infect/expose people.
03-09-2017 12:26 PM
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