Truer words have never been spoken. The people that are indifferent now about JMU Men's Hoops are the ones that it will take a while to get back into the fold, if ever.

People, for the most part, just don't care anymore...and they want money for a new building, incredible.

Warning - incoming wall of text:

(03-17-2017 12:42 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Somehow I have inadvertently aligned with Dukeman2 and that may make the internet blow up.

I'm more worried about the fans that won't grade Rowe's first season or who no longer discuss JMU Hoops than the one's that are getting angry about evaluating the season.
We have lost many of the most diehard fans because of this season. THe fairweather fans will always come and go based on the winning percentage.

They'll come back for a winner. It doesn't matter what level of play it is, winning a bunch of games for several seasons in a row will bring the fans. As others have said, it's not like JMU has any real history of stringing together seasons like that since the early 80s. There's just not a culture of winning basketball on the men's side at JMU.

Plus, people were consumed with JMU football through the beginning of January. By the time people really started paying attention, it was clear this season was going to be a rebuilding one. Sometimes people just choose another entertainment option for a little while, even diehards. I'm willing to bet most diehards saw this season for what it was early on and accepted it. Sometimes people going silent just means they're waiting to see what happens - aggressive negativity in Year 1 of a complete rebuild is silly.

And yes, this is a complete rebuilding job. By hiring Rowe, it was clear that this is starting from scratch. He was hired to bring about a culture change, and in Year 1 you have to get buy-in from current and future players. Based on the level of effort shown at the end of the season, I think you could see that coming to fruition.

Quote:Can we correlate the stalled giving to the new Convo to the crappy season? I think there is a solid case for that.
Personally I have not earmarked money for the arena and neither has my employer, nor will they for a bottom feeder.
Momentum is drastically needed to make advancements and Rowe did worse this year than anyone could have anticipated. It was a huge blow in a time when Bourne stated he needed better than where we were at. Swing and a miss.

First off, the DNR reported at the beginning of the season that 7.4 million had been raised and JMU was looking for naming rights sponsors to push things across the finish line at 12 million:

http://www.dnronline.com/sports/bourne-u...08def.html

Then, at the end of this season, Bourne goes on record saying that JMU is at $7.6M for Convo fundraising, in closing stages for 2 major sponsorships to put the project over its $12M goal, and an architect has been hired:

http://espnharrisonburg.com/podcasts/dai...-bourne-9/

So the question is, what stalled? Or do people just believe conspiracy theories that Bourne is lying and saying this in the light of a bad season?

By the way, if it's true that around $200,000 was raised for a new Convo during the worst men's basketball season in JMU's history, then I'd say that's pretty good. From a fundraising perspective, those who were going to give large amounts to the project would have done it a long time ago, so you're looking at much smaller increments after the initial rollout.

Quote:Make a coaching move questioned by the NCAA coaching community and you better show improvement. IMO, this was the most critical hire in JMU history because of its attachment and impact on the $88million arena. I know people love football, but JMU plays FCS football and the ceiling is much, much lower than Division 1 basketball. If JMU ever goes FBS , then that coaching hire will be the most important.

Rowe won as many games as any of the current or former high school coaches on this board would have won.
He did not earn his salary and JMU is paying the huge penalty of choosing to hire a coach on training wheels.

Have a good off season JMU Nation and let's cross our fingers and hope that it can't get worse. It can't get worse, right?

I'm not going to argue the puzzling nature of JMU's hire of Rowe, or that it's important for a mid/low major school to make good hires.

I personally feel it's hyperbolic to judge a coach on his first season when it's clear there's going to be massive changes to the roster & style of play in coming years. You can say he might have won more games playing a style more friendly to the personnel, but what good did that do for JMU the last few years? They had almost nothing to show for it, except for a 20-win season that people are severely overrating that included no victory of any real merit.

I get that many on this board are alumni of JMU, but if you're only looking at this season as indicative of Rowe's ability as a coach or recruiter, you can't see the forest for the trees.

In forecasting next season, the record might not be much better because the team will be pretty young and inexperienced. But you should see a squad better equipped to implement Rowe's vision - there's just likely to be growing pains.

Matt Brady was a dick, which is why I'm sitting here watching a former talented JMU player such as Charles Cooke in the NCAA tournament starting for another team .

(03-17-2017 07:59 PM)JacksonHall Wrote:  Matt Brady was a dick, which is why I'm sitting here watching a former talented JMU player such as Charles Cooke in the NCAA tournament starting for another team .

I hope you know him to be able to say this. Oddly, even those who thought we needed a change never once said anything like this about Matt. Frankly, I'd like to know what has brought you to this conclusion.

I've met the man three times and you couldn't have asked for more interaction than he always game me. I've emailed him on several occasions and always received a response as well, and not afraid to give me straight answers, unlike his boss.

I have no problem saying that I agree that his time at JMU needed to come to a close, but I was extremely afraid that that we would do no planning for his successor prior to Matt's release, which is exactly what happened.

(03-15-2017 09:48 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Ok I'll take the bait Hart and just try to provide some balance and context to your post.

(03-15-2017 06:43 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I've been waiting for our resident hoops aficionado, Dukes84, to chime in with his grade, but I think he bailed on the season like many other diehard basketball fans.

In his honor, I will submit some pros and cons from the season in outline form for everyone to dismiss all or just some of my points.
I would like to quickly note that it is amusing to me that some posters hate me more than they hate the status of the men's basketball program. The opportunity has been there for you to provide your grade and give reasons why.

With all due respect ( now I can state anything without anyone getting mad at me )

In no particular order -
Cons
1- Rowe's recruiting sucked and that is supposed to be his saving grace. Upon his hire he identified the need to get a point guard and a complementary scoring guard for the immediate needs of this roster. He went the JUCO route for players who could help this year otherwise he would have gone for High school recruits. Both were major flops. He also elected to recruit 2 D-1 transfers that had to sit out a year. While we hope they will be big contributors next year, in his mind he didn't need anymore for this year than what he already recruited. The 4th scholarship he chose to award put him over the limit and he proceeded to push Devontae Morgan off the team to make room. That was a bad call considering Morgan's strengths were exactly what this team lacked the most - fierce man to man defense and dribble penetration. PG commit Jordan Shepherd was either never pursued by Rowe or he wouldn't talk to Rowe, either way it speaks to Rowe's recruiting assessment skills or his recruiting ability. As we know, Shepherd signed with Oklahoma and was a role player in his Freshman year playing 17 min/game and getting 4 starts. You'd have to think that would translate into much more playing time and impact here on a struggling JMU team.

IMO totally fair to ding Rowe on the Juco recruits. JMU clearly lacked a PG and Holmes wasn't that guy. I also agree on Morgan and would have liked to see him back. With the Florida roots and his style of play I'm surprised Rowe didn't keep him. That said, a bit unfair to ding Rowe considering that he wasn't a head coach who could bring commits with him, and wasn't hired until the Spring - basically he was playing catch up in the late recruiting cycle so to expect him to bring in an impact player at a premium position that late in the game may be unrealistic. I think you'll see how good a recruited Rowe is this coming season.

Re: Shepherd- unless you know something I think it's hard to draw conclusions there as well. Often times these recruits (and their families) see these changes on the horizon. It's why they verbal but hold off on the LOI. Shepherd was sought after and a very good recruiting win for Brady (minus COA as well). Maybe Shepherd really believed in Brady so when Matt was let go he completely ruled out playing for JMU. I'm sure Rowe's lack of experience didn't help here but who knows maybe Shepherd would have de-commited anyway. It happens a lot whether a coach stays or goes for kids who don't sign LOIs. Either way its an out that almost always a kid will use when a coaching change is made. I just posted about the Duquesne kid reopening his commitment after Ferry was fired.

I'll add something related to recruiting. Brady for whatever reason didn't recruit Justin Kier who apparently wanted to stay in the Valley and play for JMU. By the time Rowe was hired Kier had committed and signed an LOI with George Mason. He started most of his Freshman year and played well. It would have been nice to have him committed and I bet you Rowe doesn't have a talk with Kier the way he and Hollywood came to a mutual understanding. Local kid- never offered by the prior staff but I digress.

2- OOC scheduling. He claimed he would play anyone, anywhere when he was hired. The OOC schedule was ranked 199th out of 354. When you have 13 OOC games there is plenty of opportunity to get at least some marquee games. Power conference teams are always looking for guarantee games so they can stay at home. Win or lose, it is a great experience for JMU and the players not to mention the financial boost.

Apparently Mike Deane was in charge of scheduling in year 1 but as HC Rowe is accountable. I agree that I'd like to see JMU live that mantra. I will be interested to see how the schedule improves in year 2.

3- Home Attendance was an all-time program low. That's right, broke a record in a bad way. The energy and excitement around the program declined under Rowe's leadership.
This is scary when you think about the reasons Bourne stated for hiring a new coach despite coming off of a 21 win season.

What numbers are you talking about relative to past years here? Was there a Duke Day Reading game on the schedule this year? This seems like an exaggeration here to help support your anti Rowe agenda.

4- 2 players were suspended for DUI charges. The player control culture hasn't yet been any better than what was complained about in previous years

I believe both happened in the off season away from Harrisonburg but correct me if I'm wrong on that. Probably different than stories of kids showing up drunk to practice or getting into fights off campus before the season starts.


5- 2 assistant coaches were suspended for 2 games each. What? Weirdest thing I've seen in college hoops coaching. The climate is not good on the staff that should be in sync with its leader.

I'd want to learn more about this. Again I think this is an exaggeration to support your agenda.

6- Rowe is a self-proclaimed defensive coach and the defense got WORSE this year giving up more points per game. Warning sign. Last year's defense was ranked 18th nationally in FG% allowed. This year it fell to middle of the pack at 181st. Most of this can be attributed to his hard-headed tactic to run predominantly a man to man defense with a roster that doesn't have lateral quickness. He tinkered with a little bit of the 3-2 zone that was oh so effective last year, but would not change his losing philosophy.

Re the defense - last year you had a first
team all defensive player in Curry. I'd also venture to say that the opponents scoring increased when Dalembert went out for the season.
He was their only shot blocker.

7- Rowe's offense was much worse than last year. 313th in scoring this year and were 123rd last year. A huge chunk of the falloff was from the 3pt line where this year's team took 21% fewer attempts per game from behind the arc than last year. He admitted many times that he wanted his team to dribble drive and not settle for 3's. That is foolish when your roster is full of shooters and void of penetrators.
Shooters gotta shoot.

Again no Curry (Yawn)

8- Speaking of the 3 ball, he succeeded in ruining Shak and Cabarkapa who were the #2 and #3 scorers on last year's team. They became the #4 and #9 scorers on this year's team that was begging for somebody to put the ball in the basket. Rowe's insistence on man-to-man defensive acumen for playing time resulted in a clunky, disoriented mess on offense. You have 2 very effective catch and shoot players coached to be something they aren't.
BTW, Cabarkapa was the 38th most efficient offensive player in the nation last year. He was an miscoached train wreck most of the time this year.

Rowe ruined Shak and Cabarkapa was that in exchange for improving Kent, Satkius and Lukic's games? Kent and McLean seemed to shoot ok from 3 relative to last year. Do you think Rowe intentionally sabotaged Serb and Shaks game while coaching the other guys?


9- Point guard development was non-existent. This was Brady's forte as a former point guard and his track record included NBA draft pick Jared Jordan at Marist, then all-CAA players Devon Moore and Ron Curry (neither who could shoot a lick entering college). Rowe did nothing with his JUCO selection Holmes and did not improve McLean at all in the position everyone universally agreed JMU needed the most this year.

McLean is not a true PG. He wasn't recruited to be one either- that explains why Brady was recruiting PGs last year (Canadan PG who went to VCU, Dondre Griffin who went to Murray State and then Shephard).

10- a record breaking start to the season. Worst ever JMU start at 0-7 and worst ever OOC record at 1-11 (2-11 if you include the D III win which the NCAA does not in official statistics). These are the types of records we did not need Louis Rowe to break. He deflated the balloon of any potential fan excitement by looking like a coach on training wheels.

Horrible start- I agree. There was no fan excitement. There has been no fan excitement. No worries. No one was watching (except us) or paying attention and then they won 3 to start conference (no one still was watching except us) and finished 7-11 in conference.


11- Rowe was minus 11 in total wins this year versus last year. That is the biggest regression from one year to the next in JMU basketball history.

see answer above

12- he managed to take a team with 4 returning starters and 7 seniors and get awful results coming off of a 21 win season. He also had 3 key reserves return from last year in McLean, Cabarkapa, and Satkus not to mention a D-1 transfer, Snowden, becoming available.
Good coaches tailor their scheme to fit the personnel on each year's team. He did the opposite. It was the definition of bad coaching.
What a waste of a year to have so much proven experience returning.
The whole was less than the sum of the parts.
You are what your record says you are. 10-23 says "You aren't good"

Proven experience- how so? Seniors who had never won a CAA Tournament game? 1 pre season 2nd team CAA player. 0 CAA 1st, 2nd, or 3rd teamers (only team in the CAA), no one on the active roster who scored higher than 2 stars coming out of high school.

All your posts continue to lack two words (Ron Curry). When you paint a story about how Rowe came in and ruined such a ready made winning team you fail to mention the all league player who graduated- probably one of the best 2 way players to ever lace them up for JMU- but carry on.
[b]Pros[/b
1- He was on campus more than the previous coach and eats at E-Hall with the students

2- He attends more Duke Club events to socialize with donors

3- He wears a suit better than Brady or Alger

4- He improved FT shooting 3% this year vs last year


There is always a silver lining. As fast as Rowe trainwrecked the program in one year, he can turn it around in one year. Each year is its own and nothing is guaranteed to flow from one year to the next with a different roster, different schedule, different injuries, different coaching. We've seen many times where teams become excellent in one year with proper coaching and program management.
The coach = the program.

Yeah I guess you're right- things can turn on a dime. In Brady's first 6 seasons he essentially rotated 20 win seasons with 20 loss seasons and he was a good coach so anything is possible.

Keep in mind this is posted With All Due Respect.

Hart, that's very kind of you to post a thread in my honor. I've posted quite a few times during the season about my feelings on Rowe. I was not happy that Brady was let go (and I posted ad nauseum leading up to that fateful decision), but I was hopeful that Bourne and JMU would make a good hire. In the final analysis, like everyone else, I was stunned by Rowe's hire, as I did not view him as a serious candidate for the job during the vetting process. He had never been a head coach at the collegiate level, nor had he worked his way up the ladder as an assistant at a top program. Instead, he was an undistinguished assistant at several mid-major programs and had only been some kind of assistant (either as a grad assistant or coach) since 2010 or so. Typically, a coach at JMU's level has to have either or both of those experiences to get serious consideration, as any rational fan would have hoped.

We've seen the results of that inexperience in his first year as a head coach, with the team starting out 1-11 with one of the most experienced squads in the nation and one that was generally rated as a top 100 program, if not better than that, ending the prior season.

What was painfully obvious in watching the team get out to that start is that the whole was much less than the sum of its parts and the team did not look like it had been coached. In fact, the lack of spacing and flow, particularly on offense, looked worse than a weekend pick-up game. It was clear that Rowe was trying to incorporate his philosophies of dribble drive penetration and man-to-man defense on a roster that had reached some level of success (21 wins during the previous regular season) playing a perimeter-based motion offense of sorts that relied heavily on three-point shooting (and moving the ball from side-to-side) and a 3-2 zone, to max out its strengths and to minimize its weaknesses.

This disastrous approach resulted in a 10-23 season, with three of those wins coming against a dreadful Drexel team and one coming against D-3 Bridgewater College. And for good measure, we saw Rowe get two technical fouls in the first half of his first CAA game versus Drexel, resulting in his ejection. He leaves and the team then puts together one of its best halves of the season, scoring more than 50 points in the second half. I distinctly recall them playing with more tempo in that half, perhaps something they should have tried to do previously.

As I've said before, Rowe to be successful, will probably have to change up his staff to bring on assistants that are highly skilled and can gain his ear and can assist in installing offensive and defensive schemes to maximize the talent on the roster. Absent that, I don't think he's got the coaching acumen to be a successful coach at the CAA level.

I don't really know what good it does to assign him a letter grade at this point, since he's the coach in place for at least the next couple of years. I would not give him above a "D" however. I think a good coach, even with the changeover, could have won closer to 18 or 20 games with this roster and whoever they brought on at the point.

Going forward, Rowe has to be open to taking advice from his assistants or making changes in how he approaches the job. We can only really assess him on the season just finished and it's hard to evaluate his earlier recruits, as I've never seen any of them play. Almost all of these points I've raised before and this argument is probably beyond stale at this point (and probably why I didn't post a grade sooner). If we don't see some material change next season heading in the right direction, then Bourne and company are going to have to consider making a change earlier than they had hoped. A season like this past one cannot be repeated again, as most lost all interest in the program, including myself. In fact, I would have been okay had they chosen to eliminate the program.

I don't think anyone can believe why JMU has to continue to languish in men's basketball with a student body in excess of 20,000 students and an athletic budget that's among the bigger ones in the country. We've definitely taken another step back with the Rowe hire and this continued futility is on the JMU administration. If it had been me, I would have retained Brady on a short extension and then made a change, if necessary, coinciding with the opening of a new convo. I would think that this move has stilted any excitement in breaking ground for a major new facility for a dismal program.

84, I honestly didn't see the lack of movement and spacing on offense relative to past seat you and Hart did. I will make sure to look for this more next season.

Help me with my memory here because I could be wrong. Didn't JMU lose most if not all of the games after Curry got hurt his Senior year? I was a fan of Matt too but without Curry, he too struggled to get wins.

I do not understand why anyone would think JMUs roster was capable of producing 18 wins this year. Hart and 84, I consider you both very knowledgeable but on this point you both are not seeing the forest for the trees. The roster was nothing but a group of hard working guys with no lateral movement, quickness nor leaping ability. They had no legitimate point guard. They were average shooters. Not one person made any of the all league teams. I feel like the staff got the most out of this group that a coach could get. There was a void of talent on this team.

I have no clue what kind of coach Lou is or will be. I need to see if he can recruit first then see what he does with legitimate talent. I will give he and his staff a C for last year given the roster they were left with. I fully expect next years squad to be better. There will be at least 6 upperclassmen to go along with the 4 Freshman. While the team might be a tad bit young, they will be experienced enough to win more than 8 games in the CAA.

Let's get the man some quality talent ... then we can judge!

He did display some understandable frustration and anger this year ...

How quickly we forget that the talent on this year's team was enough talent to win 40 games over the last 2 years. I agree that JMU doesn't have any professional quality players, but those are the same guys that won the last few years when they had they same talent and less experience. 4 starters returned. 7 seniors returned. A D-1 starting transfer was added. Somehow these players suddenly sucked with an extra year of experience? In college basketball it isn't the pawns that matter most, it is the master moving the pieces. Of course, if you are playing checkers and other coaches are playing chess it will be evident on the court.

Also for the fans that think individual talent wins games and coaching isn't the key factor, Rowe had the opportunity to bring in more talent if he felt it was needed for his style preference (and it was) but he added 4 players and none of them contributed to winning this year. 2 swings and whiffs on Juco players and 2 elections to take D-1 transfers that had to sit out a year. Think about it, Rowe could have had the exact same impact on this year if he would have signed zero recruits. Exact same impact. A complete waste of a year IMO.
So, can we judge what he did with recruiting strategy for this year? Of course we can.
Rowe, and Only Rowe, knew he was going to force a style on this roster that didn't utilize their strengths and he absolutely stuck to his guns even with Atrocious results. If he knew that, then he should have recruited accordingly.

Suggesting JMU has to wait for multiple recruiting cycles to just get back to the level of play of the past few years is mind boggling to me. This isn't a slow roster build like football where you may need several years of recruits. Basketball players don't redshirt and good ones make an immediate impact in year one; even more so if they are JUCO or D-1 transfers.
There is no wait time in college basketball.

Remember Lefty bringing in only one recruit his first year named William Davis. You know, the one that led the team in scoring. This resulted in a winning record and plus 6 in the win column despite losing an NBA player in Kennard Winchester from the previous year. I remember vividly Lefty never complaining that he lost a stud from last year and couldn't replace him. Nope. Recruit and reload. Players come and go every season.

Remember Brady bringing in 3 recruits his first year and they all impacted the team. Moore and Wells started while Seminov was the 6th man . Once again it produced a team with a winning record and it was plus 8 in the Win column vs previous year.

Even the lowly Dean Keener brought in Jomo Belfor his first year to be the starting point guard leading JMU in assists and steals. And he was the most craptastic of all JMU coaches in its hoops history. Keener was minus 1 in the win column vs the prior year on his way to a four year streak of losing records before getting canned years too late.

Thurston brought in 3 guys that didn't have an impact his first year which resulted in JMU's first ever losing season. He was minus 9 in the win column vs prior year which at the time was a record for single year regression. He was fired 2 1/2 years into his tenure. That's right. Fired mid season.

Dillard brought in 2 guys that didn't impact his first year (one sat out, one didn't play much) and went backwards going minus 5 in the W column. In his 7 years he produced 5 losing seasons and is the author of JMU slipping into the college hoops abyss. He was fired years too late. Great player, horrible coach.

Campanelli followed a one year term by Ehlers and built his team from a DIII, to a DII, to a D 1 program While never having a losing season. He admits in his book that he built his roster from players that were under the radar and then coached them up. He had 2 recruits heavily impact his first year and one of them, David Corell, was the leading scorer. Campanelli was neutral in wins vs prior year even though he lost the best player and a JMU HOF'er in the first game to a season ending injury. Greatest and most accomplished coach in JMU Hoops history, perhaps all JMU sports history considering the magical NCAA tourney success in 3 consecutive years.

Where does Rowe fit in vs his predecessors when looking at first year recruiting?
He brought in 4 guys and none of them impacted the team this year. He also smashed the record for most precipitous fall year over year. Minus 11 wins vs prior year.

So if you don't want to look at coaching and just focus on recruiting, this evidence is ultra concerning too.

(03-19-2017 03:30 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  How quickly we forget that the talent on this year's team was enough talent to win 40 games over the last 2 years...

No it wasn't.

(03-19-2017 03:30 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  How quickly we forget that the talent on this year's team was enough talent to win 40 games over the last 2 years.

Give it a rest. We all get your point.

(03-19-2017 10:53 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  I have no clue what kind of coach Lou is or will be. I need to see if he can recruit first then see what he does with legitimate talent. I will give he and his staff a C for last year given the roster they were left with. I fully expect next years squad to be better. There will be at least 6 upperclassmen to go along with the 4 Freshman. While the team might be a tad bit young, they will be experienced enough to win more than 8 games in the CAA.

Nation, why do you think the team will be a top 4 CAA team next year given the fact the experienced players returning are simply role players. Next's team will go as the freshmen/transfers take them. I suspect the incoming freshmen will get most of the minutes and will have their ups and downs due to their youth and inexperience. I'm hopeful we finish .500 in the conference next year.

I really like the four guys Rowe signed and I hope he can add a guard during the spring signing period. If he finds a quality guard we should have a solid foundation to build off for years to come.

(03-19-2017 03:30 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  How quickly we forget that the talent on this year's team was enough talent to win 40 games over the last 2 years. I agree that JMU doesn't have any professional quality players, but those are the same guys that won the last few years when they had they same talent and less experience. 4 starters returned. 7 seniors returned. A D-1 starting transfer was added. Somehow these players suddenly sucked with an extra year of experience? In college basketball it isn't the pawns that matter most, it is the master moving the pieces. Of course, if you are playing checkers and other coaches are playing chess it will be evident on the court.

Also for the fans that think individual talent wins games and coaching isn't the key factor, Rowe had the opportunity to bring in more talent if he felt it was needed for his style preference (and it was) but he added 4 players and none of them contributed to winning this year. 2 swings and whiffs on Juco players and 2 elections to take D-1 transfers that had to sit out a year. Think about it, Rowe could have had the exact same impact on this year if he would have signed zero recruits. Exact same impact. A complete waste of a year IMO.
So, can we judge what he did with recruiting strategy for this year? Of course we can.
Rowe, and Only Rowe, knew he was going to force a style on this roster that didn't utilize their strengths and he absolutely stuck to his guns even with Atrocious results. If he knew that, then he should have recruited accordingly.

Suggesting JMU has to wait for multiple recruiting cycles to just get back to the level of play of the past few years is mind boggling to me. This isn't a slow roster build like football where you may need several years of recruits. Basketball players don't redshirt and good ones make an immediate impact in year one; even more so if they are JUCO or D-1 transfers.
There is no wait time in college basketball.

Remember Lefty bringing in only one recruit his first year named William Davis. You know, the one that led the team in scoring. This resulted in a winning record and plus 6 in the win column despite losing an NBA player in Kennard Winchester from the previous year. I remember vividly Lefty never complaining that he lost a stud from last year and couldn't replace him. Nope. Recruit and reload. Players come and go every season.

Remember Brady bringing in 3 recruits his first year and they all impacted the team. Moore and Wells started while Seminov was the 6th man . Once again it produced a team with a winning record and it was plus 8 in the Win column vs previous year.

Even the lowly Dean Keener brought in Jomo Belfor his first year to be the starting point guard leading JMU in assists and steals. And he was the most craptastic of all JMU coaches in its hoops history. Keener was minus 1 in the win column vs the prior year on his way to a four year streak of losing records before getting canned years too late.

Thurston brought in 3 guys that didn't have an impact his first year which resulted in JMU's first ever losing season. He was minus 9 in the win column vs prior year which at the time was a record for single year regression. He was fired 2 1/2 years into his tenure. That's right. Fired mid season.

Dillard brought in 2 guys that didn't impact his first year (one sat out, one didn't play much) and went backwards going minus 5 in the W column. In his 7 years he produced 5 losing seasons and is the author of JMU slipping into the college hoops abyss. He was fired years too late. Great player, horrible coach.

Campanelli followed a one year term by Ehlers and built his team from a DIII, to a DII, to a D 1 program While never having a losing season. He admits in his book that he built his roster from players that were under the radar and then coached them up. He had 2 recruits heavily impact his first year and one of them, David Corell, was the leading scorer. Campanelli was neutral in wins vs prior year even though he lost the best player and a JMU HOF'er in the first game to a season ending injury. Greatest and most accomplished coach in JMU Hoops history, perhaps all JMU sports history considering the magical NCAA tourney success in 3 consecutive years.

Where does Rowe fit in vs his predecessors when looking at first year recruiting?
He brought in 4 guys and none of them impacted the team this year. He also smashed the record for most precipitous fall year over year. Minus 11 wins vs prior year.

So if you don't want to look at coaching and just focus on recruiting, this evidence is ultra concerning too.

I just find it baffling that in every multi paragraph post that you make you never mention Ron Curry. It's like aliens removed all memory of Ron Curry from your brain. I know you are on record as blaming Ron Curry for JMU MBBs failures in the post season under Brady but you really ought to mention the man when discussing the drop off year over year. It's like you intentionally omit Curry from your negative Rowe posts in hopes that someone who doesn't know any better won't notice and agree with you. I will continue to call you out on this. It damages what little creditability you have on the subject when you fail to mention Curry and I think it's insulting to JMU MBB fans who follow the team and know better. There are plenty of things to gripe about but at least offer this piece of information to make it a somewhat balanced criticism. If you have forgotten Curry's impact I have included his stats and game log for last year below.

He played by far the most minutes on the team and had the ball in his hands the majority of the time. He had a 2 X + assist to turnover margin took over 12 shots a game and over 6 3 point shots. He also got to the foul line 5 times a game, grabbed over 4 rebounds, averaged 1 block and 2 steals per game while only averaging 1.5 fouls.

He was a very good player and a very important player for JMU. If you don't acknowledge that I may have to draw you a picture.

Averages
SEASON TEAM MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA % FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
2015-16 JMU 33.4 5.4-12.2 .442 2.3-6.3 .371 4.2-5.6 .746 4.1 3.6 0.4 1.0 2.0 1.5 17.3

2015-16 Game Log
DATE OPP RESULT MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
Fri 11/13 @

RICHMOND
W 87-75 33 6-13 .462 1-3 .333 6-11 .545 5 8 0 3 2 2 19
Mon 11/16 vs

WEST VIRGINIA
L 86-73 28 3-9 .333 3-5 .600 2-2 1.000 1 1 0 0 4 2 11
Fri 11/20 vs

FIU
W 64-61 35 5-13 .385 1-6 .167 1-2 .500 0 8 1 2 2 1 12
Sat 11/21 vs

ORAL ROBERTS
L 74-64 35 7-16 .438 2-6 .333 0-1 .000 2 1 0 1 2 2 16
Sun 11/22 vs

UT MARTIN
L 78-75 38 9-14 .643 3-8 .375 0-1 .000 0 3 0 2 1 1 21
Tue 11/24 vs

EASTMENN
W 106-74 8 2-2 1.000 2-2 1.000 0-0 .000 1 1 0 0 1 0 6
Fri 11/27 @

MARSHALL
W 89-75 37 3-9 .333 1-3 .333 3-4 .750 4 5 0 2 3 1 10
Mon 11/30 @

RADFORD
W 70-68 36 2-8 .250 0-3 .000 2-4 .500 4 2 1 1 2 2 6
Thu 12/3 vs

W MICHIGAN
W 63-57 34 7-16 .438 2-8 .250 5-7 .714 7 3 1 0 3 3 21
Sun 12/6 vs

MARSHALL
W 107-84 26 7-11 .636 2-5 .400 4-4 1.000 7 3 1 1 3 1 20
Sat 12/12 vs

GEORGE MASON
W 69-46 29 4-9 .444 1-4 .250 2-3 .667 3 4 1 1 1 0 11
Sun 12/20 vs

ECU
W 67-61 35 9-14 .643 4-8 .500 1-1 1.000 7 2 1 1 1 1 23
Tue 12/22 vs

MT ST MARY'S
W 73-53 34 3-8 .375 1-2 .500 6-8 .750 4 3 0 1 2 3 13
Thu 12/31 vs

CHARLESTON
L 65-62 37 7-12 .583 5-7 .714 4-5 .800 4 2 1 0 0 3 23
Sat 1/2 @

DELAWARE
W 73-63 33 5-11 .455 3-9 .333 4-4 1.000 3 3 0 0 1 2 17
Thu 1/7 vs

ELON
L 79-73 36 8-18 .444 3-8 .375 4-6 .667 9 7 0 2 3 1 23
Sat 1/9 vs

TOWSON
W 73-59 31 2-7 .286 1-4 .250 7-8 .875 1 5 0 1 3 0 12
Thu 1/14 @

NORTHEASTERN
W 75-63 38 7-12 .583 4-7 .571 4-4 1.000 7 4 0 1 2 1 22
Sat 1/16 @

HOFSTRA
W 86-82 (OT) 41 4-12 .333 1-6 .167 5-7 .714 2 8 1 1 3 2 14
Thu 1/21 vs

DREXEL
W 68-45 29 4-8 .500 0-2 .000 4-4 1.000 6 3 0 1 1 3 12
Sat 1/23 @

ELON
W 82-64 28 5-13 .385 2-5 .400 2-4 .500 5 5 0 2 2 1 14
Thu 1/28 vs

UNC WILMINGTON
L 78-73 32 6-13 .462 3-6 .500 13-16 .813 5 2 0 1 3 3 28
Sun 1/31 @

WILLIAM & MARY
L 68-62 37 7-19 .368 4-14 .286 1-1 1.000 6 2 1 0 2 1 19
Thu 2/4 @

DREXEL
W 78-56 31 5-13 .385 2-7 .286 4-6 .667 3 2 1 0 0 1 16
Sun 2/7 vs

HOFSTRA
W 98-95 (OT) 43 9-16 .563 7-12 .583 6-10 .600 2 2 0 2 3 0 31
Thu 2/11 @

CHARLESTON
W 56-52 27 4-11 .364 3-5 .600 5-6 .833 4 1 0 0 2 1 16
Sat 2/13 @

UNC WILMINGTON
L 78-68 Did not play or did not accumulate any stats.
Thu 2/18 vs

NORTHEASTERN
L 95-94 (3OT) 47 8-20 .400 1-8 .125 4-6 .667 5 7 0 1 3 1 21
Sat 2/20 vs

DELAWARE
W 75-50 29 3-6 .500 2-5 .400 9-10 .900 6 3 1 1 1 0 17
Thu 2/25 @

TOWSON
L 69-67 38 5-14 .357 3-8 .375 7-10 .700 1 4 0 2 4 1 20
Sat 2/27 vs

WILLIAM & MARY
W 71-65 30 6-12 .500 3-7 .429 6-8 .750 2 5 0 0 3 3 21
Sat 3/5 vs

WILLIAM & MARY
L 79-64 40 5-19 .263 2-11 .182 8-10 .800 11 3 1 1 0 3 20


To me not mentioning Curry is not telling the full story. It's FAKE NEWS to further your agenda. It is clear to anyone who watched last year to this that there was a big difference in having Curry and not. Rowe is accountable for not bringing in an adequate replacement in year 1 but it's unrealistic to think at the mid major level a new coach would have brought in someone to replace Curry on both ends of the floor but Holmes added nothing so that's on Rowe. Ideally you would have gotten something from Holmes and the other guys would have stepped up to fill Curry's void. Some did some didn't and it clearly wasn't enough.

To 97's point, if Curry had one more year of eligibility left and played this season I feel we would have won 20 games again with this squad.

Returning a bunch of seasoned role players means nothing if you do not have a star to propel the team forward.

(03-19-2017 04:58 PM)Rock House Duke Wrote:  To 97's point, if Curry had one more year of eligibility left and played this season I feel we would have won 20 games again with this squad.

Returning a bunch of seasoned role players means nothing if you do not have a star to propel the team forward.

+1 Hickory was chit without Jimmy Chitwood. Without Curry to draw defenders and attention, this team was easy to defend.

(03-19-2017 03:30 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  How quickly we forget that the talent on this year's team was enough talent to win 40 games over the last 2 years. I agree that JMU doesn't have any professional quality players, but those are the same guys that won the last few years when they had they same talent and less experience. 4 starters returned. 7 seniors returned. A D-1 starting transfer was added. Somehow these players suddenly sucked with an extra year of experience? In college basketball it isn't the pawns that matter most, it is the master moving the pieces. Of course, if you are playing checkers and other coaches are playing chess it will be evident on the court.

Also for the fans that think individual talent wins games and coaching isn't the key factor, Rowe had the opportunity to bring in more talent if he felt it was needed for his style preference (and it was) but he added 4 players and none of them contributed to winning this year. 2 swings and whiffs on Juco players and 2 elections to take D-1 transfers that had to sit out a year. Think about it, Rowe could have had the exact same impact on this year if he would have signed zero recruits. Exact same impact. A complete waste of a year IMO.
So, can we judge what he did with recruiting strategy for this year? Of course we can.
Rowe, and Only Rowe, knew he was going to force a style on this roster that didn't utilize their strengths and he absolutely stuck to his guns even with Atrocious results. If he knew that, then he should have recruited accordingly.

Suggesting JMU has to wait for multiple recruiting cycles to just get back to the level of play of the past few years is mind boggling to me. This isn't a slow roster build like football where you may need several years of recruits. Basketball players don't redshirt and good ones make an immediate impact in year one; even more so if they are JUCO or D-1 transfers.
There is no wait time in college basketball.

Remember Lefty bringing in only one recruit his first year named William Davis. You know, the one that led the team in scoring. This resulted in a winning record and plus 6 in the win column despite losing an NBA player in Kennard Winchester from the previous year. I remember vividly Lefty never complaining that he lost a stud from last year and couldn't replace him. Nope. Recruit and reload. Players come and go every season.

Remember Brady bringing in 3 recruits his first year and they all impacted the team. Moore and Wells started while Seminov was the 6th man . Once again it produced a team with a winning record and it was plus 8 in the Win column vs previous year.

Even the lowly Dean Keener brought in Jomo Belfor his first year to be the starting point guard leading JMU in assists and steals. And he was the most craptastic of all JMU coaches in its hoops history. Keener was minus 1 in the win column vs the prior year on his way to a four year streak of losing records before getting canned years too late.

Thurston brought in 3 guys that didn't have an impact his first year which resulted in JMU's first ever losing season. He was minus 9 in the win column vs prior year which at the time was a record for single year regression. He was fired 2 1/2 years into his tenure. That's right. Fired mid season.

Dillard brought in 2 guys that didn't impact his first year (one sat out, one didn't play much) and went backwards going minus 5 in the W column. In his 7 years he produced 5 losing seasons and is the author of JMU slipping into the college hoops abyss. He was fired years too late. Great player, horrible coach.

Campanelli followed a one year term by Ehlers and built his team from a DIII, to a DII, to a D 1 program While never having a losing season. He admits in his book that he built his roster from players that were under the radar and then coached them up. He had 2 recruits heavily impact his first year and one of them, David Corell, was the leading scorer. Campanelli was neutral in wins vs prior year even though he lost the best player and a JMU HOF'er in the first game to a season ending injury. Greatest and most accomplished coach in JMU Hoops history, perhaps all JMU sports history considering the magical NCAA tourney success in 3 consecutive years.

Where does Rowe fit in vs his predecessors when looking at first year recruiting?
He brought in 4 guys and none of them impacted the team this year. He also smashed the record for most precipitous fall year over year. Minus 11 wins vs prior year.

So if you don't want to look at coaching and just focus on recruiting, this evidence is ultra concerning too.

Excellent post Hart and I whole-heartedly agree. I'm tired of reading about the excuse that it was okay to win 9 regular season games simply because Ron Curry graduated. Good players graduate all of the time and programs move on. JMU lost Charles Cooke after two seasons and then Andre Nation in season the next year and JMU managed to win 19 games, more than the 11 wins from the previous season with those two players on hand.

Rowe had four scholarships to work with to address the problem and completely whiffed. Look at the situations inherited by the Drexel and Delaware coaches and they won 9 and 13 games, respectively. JMU, in fact, managed to lose twice to Delaware. If you will recall, that program was in a complete death spiral and their coach was hired after Rowe. What would Drexel and Delaware's records have been had Rowe been their coach and those rosters to work with?

The other point that is perhaps missed from this past season is that the CAA was not nearly as good as it was a year ago, even though the conference rank dropped only two spots, from 9 to 11. NE, W&M and Hofstra all lost very significant pieces and their teams saw a drop-off, although none as steep as that sustained by the Dukes.

The other point that I would make is where did JMU finish in the Kenpom ratings relative to where they were pegged at the start of the season? I would argue that that disparity between predicted and actual performance had to be one of the biggest in the country and that falls squarely on the coaching staff.

Some on here liked to mock Brady's reputation as a Shot Doctor, but we saw what his absence and the switch to a dribble drive attack (evidently starting in the off season) did to the likes of Serb and Shakir Brown most prominently, but also to three point shooting stats for others on the team, not to mention the drop-off in points per game and offensive efficiency. As Hart correctly pointed out, the defense suffered significant drop-off as well.
All in all, a dismal season just completed.

So 84, you like Hart blame the players for the failures in the CAA T the last couple of years and not the head coach right? The players choked, they laid an egg, they didn't execute Brady's game plan right? This season it's squarely all on the head coach Lou Rowe and has nothing to do with the personnel? That doesn't add up to me and sure doesn't sound like someone who is being objective. So you never made excuses for Brady's 20 loss seasons or his teams lack of even being competitive in the CAAT- but mentioning the loss of Ron Curry is an excuse? I guess Dalembert going down with an injury (Lord knows Brady's teams had a lot of injuries over the years) is an excuse as well. He was JMU's only shot blocker. You know how a poster said that this JMU team was easy to defend- not because of offensive coaching but because of limited personnel, well with the same lack of quickness on the defensive end and no shot blocker do you think this JMU team was somewhat easy to game plan against on that side of the ball as well?

Brady did a nice job of fielding a competitive team after he lost Cooke and finally had to let Nation go. The teams performance and growth the last two years was in large part due to the growth of Ron Curry. Look at his year over year stats. He made a jump each season. Brady gets credit for that and so does Ron Curry. However the losses in players and recruiting misses caught up with the program this season as they had experience through mostly role players and no alpha, no difference maker. I'm sorry I watch all the games and I'm not buying that Serb or Brown struggled because of Rowe's offense and that they only started playing better later in the season because Lou Rowe finally listened to Mike Deane, stopped being so stubborn and opened things up. It's a nice narrative for the anti Rowe crowd (many of which have been anti Rowe since the press conference and first game) but I think it's fiction. These guys struggled for other reasons and it was there for them to seize the opportunity all year. Whether it was injuries, lack of confidence whatever they didn't start playing inspired (some of the other guys did all year) until the end of the season.

Either way to me it really doesn't matter. I know this team was limited- those guys were limited. You can spin the prior wins and drop off any way you want and say whatever you want about the CAA being down but this team with Curry wasn't beating UNCW and the other teams. They weren't talented enough (only CAA team with no all league players) without him to beat those teams either. I'll admit with Brady as coach the record would have looked better but the outcome would have been the same- quarterfinals exit.

I think it's funny that the 4 player recruiting class is graded as a dud one year in. So if Mosely and Scissum are the impact players that folks close to the program claim they are next year will you go back and say that Rowe made a good decision allocating 2 scholarships in 16 to guys who will be big contributors for 2 and 3 seasons thereafter or late in the recruiting cycle would you have preferred 2 more jucos or maybe a couple of 4 year reaches?

Rowe's first season was bad- I'm not denying that. The recruiting in year 1 wasn't perfect. I would have kept Morgan over a big maybe he could have helped with the PG spot. Holmes has a long way to go. I think Johnson was always a developmental recruit. I just don't think you can blame all of this on Rowe when for years you didn't blame all of it (or any of it) on Brady. Brady was here 8 seasons, Rowe has been here 1. Brady was an established head coach who brought some recruits with him. Rowe is in his first season as head coach.

my lord this horse is beat

For real. I'm one of the ones who thinks the aggressive negativity helps nothing, and even I'm not going to keep arguing this point.

Like it or not, Lou Rowe is going to get at least 3 years to prove whether or not he's capable of turning things around.

Next season could be tough again too, considering how young and inexperienced the team will be, but hopefully he's got better personnel in place to run his system. Only time will tell.

I was obviously not impressed with this years final results, but did appreciate the effort of a handful of guys that were playing out of position. Should Smooth lou have found a better PG? Yes, however i dont mind that he mortgaged success this year to get Gerron and Stuckey. Those are two great basketball players. Also, i am very enthusiastic about our incoming class.