We were never going to get Gregg Marshall, Buzz Williams, Bruce Pearl, Will Wade, Frank Martin or Archie Miller. So, of the names that we, the fans, threw out there...here's how Tubby stacks up.

Tubby Smith, Memphis: 19-11 (165 SOS)...probably going to miss post season

Penny Hardaway, East HS: #1 in TN, #15 Nationally
Kevin Keatts, UNCW: 24-5 (145 SOS)... currently projected as a 12 seed. Needs to win conference tourney. NIT if not.
Steve Forbes, ETSU: 24-7 (223 SOS) ... Needs to win conference tourney. NIT if not.
Brad Underwood, Oklahoma St.: 20-10 (27 SOS) ... currently projected as a 7 seed
Mark Fox, Georgia: 17-12 (15 SOS) ... currently in the Last 4 Out group, probably NIT
Andy Kennedy, Ole Miss: 18-12 (68 SOS) ... NIT bound
Matt McCall, Chattanooga: 17-11 (211 SOS) ... probably going to miss post-season
Chris Beard, Texas Tech: 18-12 (108 SOS) ... probably going to miss post season
Ed Cooley, Providence: 20-8 (41 SOS) ... currently projected as an 11 seed (on the bubble)
Rich Pitino, Minnesota: 23-7 (19 SOS) ... currently projected as a 6 seed
Jerrod Haas, Stanford: 14-16 (8 SOS) ... no post-season
Eric Musselman, Nevada: 25-6 (160 SOS)... currently projected as a 12 seed. Needs to win conference tourney.


I totally understand the concerns and frustration...just thought I'd share for some perspective.

I thought Penny did not want the job. Underwood was the best choice, yet no one even talked to him.
Tubby needs to get it in gear for next year. Someone needs to recruit better.
Which highly ranked recruit would come here and play, after seeing yesterday?
How did this coaching team do such a 360 with the players?
It used to be that everyone was all in; now we read that they do not listen.
It is not just the losses, it is how we have been losing.

Hope we make a good showing at UConn, to get some momentum back.

I agree with the OP: we were never going to get a guy like Greg Marshall, a proven winner in his prime.

Should have hired Steve Forbes. He was the best realistic candidate. He's coming into his coaching prime and has potential to be good. He has a history recruiting in the Memphis area.

(03-05-2017 10:02 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I agree with the OP: we were never going to get a guy like Greg Marshall, a proven winner in his prime.

Should have hired Steve Forbes. He was the best realistic candidate. He's coming into his coaching prime and has potential to be good. He has a history recruiting in the Memphis area.

His team last year at ETSU was littered with former Top 50 recruit transfers that he brought in. He would have been a homerun in hindsight.

(03-05-2017 10:18 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-05-2017 10:02 AM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I agree with the OP: we were never going to get a guy like Greg Marshall, a proven winner in his prime.

Should have hired Steve Forbes. He was the best realistic candidate. He's coming into his coaching prime and has potential to be good. He has a history recruiting in the Memphis area.

His team last year at ETSU was littered with former Top 50 recruit transfers that he brought in. He would have been a homerun in hindsight.

While bringing in a bunch of top 50 guys is good and shows he is a good recruiter...

But he also has only beat up on a poor conference heck didn't even win the conference outright this year.

I think Tubby is stubborn and set in his ways...He may knock it out of the park but he should have gotten a proven player getter as an assistant, I respect his loyalty though.

Steve Forbes might have been good here...but I don't see how anyone could say that he's proven to be a better hire than Tubby. Don't get me wrong ... I'm not pro-Tubby or anti-Forbes, but Forbes did have a roster full of former Top 50 players and he couldn't win a crap conference. He's not even favored to win the tournament this year (but we can wait and see).

All I'm saying is, of the ones we had a realistic shot at hiring - not sure many of them could've done much better than Tubby in Year 1. Maybe they hyped fans up more, did radio, etc...maybe a few more wins and an NIT (which I'd take) but in the long run the goal is to get back to the tournament...I'll give Tubby 2 more years to accomplish that. I'll be interested to see how the other guys do too.

FWIW - Underwood was my guy.

Was Penny really a serious candidate?

(03-05-2017 12:07 PM)VinnieVegas Wrote:  Was Penny really a serious candidate?

Idk ... but he was mentioned so I added him.

(03-05-2017 12:35 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(03-05-2017 12:07 PM)VinnieVegas Wrote:  Was Penny really a serious candidate?

Idk ... but he was mentioned so I added him.

From what I've heard it was either Tubby or Jeff Capel. I'm not sure anyone else was even considered.

Bottom line: with the exception of Cal, Tiger Basketball has fluctuated with the level of local talent. A few key transfers/recruits from out of the area would make a big difference. However, I started an earlier post about who our best NON-CAL Tigers from out-of-the-area were and it was a very, very small list.

In other words, I am not sure Tubby's lack of recruiting should have been a huge demerit from a historical perspective. When we originally hired him, I was deadset against it since Tubby hadn't made a Sweet Sixteen since....Kentucky. For the contract money we offered, I would think that we could've gotten somebody with a bit more fire in the belly. My concern was that Tubby was going to coast a bit, run a clean program and rely on the Memphis-area for talent. And, if the Memphis talent wasn't there, well, then no Sweet 16 for the Tigers.

From the sounds of it (since I am an OOTer), the Memphis area HS basketball talent isn't that great and therefore, I am not holding my breath for a S16 in the next 3 years. So.....11 years without a S16 AND in an NBA or 'pro' town. Sounds like:

St. John's, DePaul, Houston, St. Louis University and (perhaps) UNLV.

Of these programs, only UNLV has much upside nowadays.

(03-05-2017 01:00 PM)ddramone Wrote:  Bottom line: with the exception of Cal, Tiger Basketball has fluctuated with the level of local talent. A few key transfers/recruits from out of the area would make a big difference. However, I started an earlier post about who our best NON-CAL Tigers from out-of-the-area were and it was a very, very small list.

In other words, I am not sure Tubby's lack of recruiting should have been a huge demerit from a historical perspective. When we originally hired him, I was deadset against it since Tubby hadn't made a Sweet Sixteen since....Kentucky. For the contract money we offered, I would think that we could've gotten somebody with a bit more fire in the belly. My concern was that Tubby was going to coast a bit, run a clean program and rely on the Memphis-area for talent. And, if the Memphis talent wasn't there, well, then no Sweet 16 for the Tigers.

From the sounds of it (since I am an OOTer), the Memphis area HS basketball talent isn't that great and therefore, I am not holding my breath for a S16 in the next 3 years. So.....11 years without a S16 AND in an NBA or 'pro' town. Sounds like:

St. John's, DePaul, Houston, St. Louis University and (perhaps) UNLV.

Of these programs, only UNLV has much upside nowadays.

The best non Cal out of the area tigers are Larry Kenon and a bunch of white boys from Missouri in the 50s. I worry about today's local player with all the social media around.

(03-04-2017 10:30 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  We were never going to get Gregg Marshall, Buzz Williams, Bruce Pearl, Will Wade, Frank Martin or Archie Miller. So, of the names that we, the fans, threw out there...here's how Tubby stacks up.

Tubby Smith, Memphis: 19-11 (165 SOS)...probably going to miss post season

Penny Hardaway, East HS: #1 in TN, #15 Nationally
Kevin Keatts, UNCW: 24-5 (145 SOS)... currently projected as a 12 seed. Needs to win conference tourney. NIT if not.
Steve Forbes, ETSU: 24-7 (223 SOS) ... Needs to win conference tourney. NIT if not.
Brad Underwood, Oklahoma St.: 20-10 (27 SOS) ... currently projected as a 7 seed
Mark Fox, Georgia: 17-12 (15 SOS) ... currently in the Last 4 Out group, probably NIT
Andy Kennedy, Ole Miss: 18-12 (68 SOS) ... NIT bound
Matt McCall, Chattanooga: 17-11 (211 SOS) ... probably going to miss post-season
Chris Beard, Texas Tech: 18-12 (108 SOS) ... probably going to miss post season
Ed Cooley, Providence: 20-8 (41 SOS) ... currently projected as an 11 seed (on the bubble)
Rich Pitino, Minnesota: 23-7 (19 SOS) ... currently projected as a 6 seed
Jerrod Haas, Stanford: 14-16 (8 SOS) ... no post-season
Eric Musselman, Nevada: 25-6 (160 SOS)... currently projected as a 12 seed. Needs to win conference tourney.


I totally understand the concerns and frustration...just thought I'd share for some perspective.

Williams and Wade would have taken the job in a NY second if terms and money were right.

(03-05-2017 01:00 PM)VinnieVegas Wrote:  

(03-05-2017 12:35 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(03-05-2017 12:07 PM)VinnieVegas Wrote:  Was Penny really a serious candidate?

Idk ... but he was mentioned so I added him.

From what I've heard it was either Tubby or Jeff Capel. I'm not sure anyone else was even considered.

There were conversations with Buzz. But with our incompetent AD, they went nowhere.

(03-05-2017 09:25 AM)dfwtxtiger Wrote:  I thought Penny did not want the job. Underwood was the best choice, yet no one even talked to him.
Tubby needs to get it in gear for next year. Someone needs to recruit better.
Which highly ranked recruit would come here and play, after seeing yesterday?
How did this coaching team do such a 360 with the players?
It used to be that everyone was all in; now we read that they do not listen.
It is not just the losses, it is how we have been losing.

Hope we make a good showing at UConn, to get some momentum back.

Underwood was hired almost 3 weeks before we even knew we were going to be able to hire a coach

(03-05-2017 02:26 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote:  

(03-05-2017 09:25 AM)dfwtxtiger Wrote:  I thought Penny did not want the job. Underwood was the best choice, yet no one even talked to him.
Tubby needs to get it in gear for next year. Someone needs to recruit better.
Which highly ranked recruit would come here and play, after seeing yesterday?
How did this coaching team do such a 360 with the players?
It used to be that everyone was all in; now we read that they do not listen.
It is not just the losses, it is how we have been losing.

Hope we make a good showing at UConn, to get some momentum back.

Underwood was hired almost 3 weeks before we even knew we were going to be able to hire a coach

Yeah - we should've made the move 1 year sooner but our idiot AD/booster(s) handcuffed us to Pastner.

Greg Marshall should be patrolling the Memphis sideline right now. It's a shame the boosters screwed that deal up.

Marshall has a RECENT track record of significant success. If he was the coach the results would probably be better and more folks would buy in. Tubby really hasn't done much in the last decade. That's the reason for the seemingly early unrest.

(03-05-2017 03:20 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  Greg Marshall should be patrolling the Memphis sideline right now. It's a shame the boosters screwed that deal up.

Marshall has a RECENT track record of significant success. If he was the coach the results would probably be better and more folks would buy in. Tubby really hasn't done much in the last decade. That's the reason for the seemingly early unrest.

It's not my money and it may not have mattered anyway...but I would've made him an unbelievable offer last year if I were a big booster. I'm sure WSU could counter but I would've made them...

I'm talking a 4 year, $30M guaranteed contract with a $2M assistant pool.

Marshall was turning down money at the deepest pockets of Texas and Bama. He wasn't coming here. We need a good dose of reality.

Buzz was a longshot - but possible - if we gave him the keys to the kingdom. He wanted the bank and full control - in other words, the Cal treatment. We got cold feet about that, and rightfully so with the trajectory of football. We can't pull the rug out from under them right now.

The timing was off for Underwood. No way we get him after he's already accepted OSU.

The real list of candidates - it's hard to say for sure anything would be any different right now with any of those. No sure deals on the list. Heck, who saw Dawkins turning it around at UCF after getting fired.

(03-05-2017 01:48 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(03-04-2017 10:30 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  We were never going to get Gregg Marshall, Buzz Williams, Bruce Pearl, Will Wade, Frank Martin or Archie Miller. So, of the names that we, the fans, threw out there...here's how Tubby stacks up.

Tubby Smith, Memphis: 19-11 (165 SOS)...probably going to miss post season

Penny Hardaway, East HS: #1 in TN, #15 Nationally
Kevin Keatts, UNCW: 24-5 (145 SOS)... currently projected as a 12 seed. Needs to win conference tourney. NIT if not.
Steve Forbes, ETSU: 24-7 (223 SOS) ... Needs to win conference tourney. NIT if not.
Brad Underwood, Oklahoma St.: 20-10 (27 SOS) ... currently projected as a 7 seed
Mark Fox, Georgia: 17-12 (15 SOS) ... currently in the Last 4 Out group, probably NIT
Andy Kennedy, Ole Miss: 18-12 (68 SOS) ... NIT bound
Matt McCall, Chattanooga: 17-11 (211 SOS) ... probably going to miss post-season
Chris Beard, Texas Tech: 18-12 (108 SOS) ... probably going to miss post season
Ed Cooley, Providence: 20-8 (41 SOS) ... currently projected as an 11 seed (on the bubble)
Rich Pitino, Minnesota: 23-7 (19 SOS) ... currently projected as a 6 seed
Jerrod Haas, Stanford: 14-16 (8 SOS) ... no post-season
Eric Musselman, Nevada: 25-6 (160 SOS)... currently projected as a 12 seed. Needs to win conference tourney.


I totally understand the concerns and frustration...just thought I'd share for some perspective.

Williams and Wade would have taken the job in a NY second if terms and money were right.

Tubby is getting 3mil a year. How much more would Wade have wanted?

Steve Forbes at ETSU just won the SoCon tournament and will make his 1st NCAA appearance as a HC this year.