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A stinging piece about CSU's WBB coach 0-24
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Stugray2 Offline
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A stinging piece about CSU's WBB coach 0-24
Ouch! http://chicagocrusader.com/zero-wins-999...ago-state/

By J. Coyden Palmer, Chicago Crusader really unloads on the CSU coach and her failure to even fill a roster. He mostly targets the administration of the school. But ouch.
03-03-2017 05:18 PM
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RunnerBall Offline
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RE: A stinging piece about CSU's WBB coach 0-24
(03-03-2017 05:18 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Ouch! http://chicagocrusader.com/zero-wins-999...ago-state/

By J. Coyden Palmer, Chicago Crusader really unloads on the CSU coach and her failure to even fill a roster. He mostly targets the administration of the school. But ouch.

I find is a little interesting that though this is a piece on money, nothing is made of the institution staying at the DI level as a whole in the first place. It just seems to target this one coach/program.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2017 06:16 PM by RunnerBall.)
03-03-2017 06:16 PM
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MWC Tex Online
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RE: A stinging piece about CSU's WBB coach 0-24
Air Force's women's sports are always abysmal in the MW.
03-03-2017 06:21 PM
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joshadam84 Online
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RE: A stinging piece about CSU's WBB coach 0-24
Not real familiar with the outlet, but there wasn't much journalism skills showed off in that piece. Moreso a rant. I don't think there was an interview throughout the whole piece. Mainly took information from a NY Times Article about their roster and budget issues.

Speaking of The NY Times piece, many of Jackson's peers had great things to say about her and her coaching ability. So I don't give a lot of weight to this "article" from Chicago crusader.
03-03-2017 09:10 PM
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SeattleVandals Offline
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RE: A stinging piece about CSU's WBB coach 0-24
She isnt wrong about anything. And CSU wont fire her after this year because no one in their right mind will take the job. Same reason Dildy wont be let go. Dollar has the hottest seat in the WAC just because nobody wants Dildys job
03-04-2017 12:16 AM
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edinburger Offline
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RE: A stinging piece about CSU's WBB coach 0-24
A lot to disagree with in that article.

"While CSU has more problems than probably any other school in the state, school administrators and politicians aren’t serious about making CSU a productive school anymore. If they were, they would take care of the “elephant in the room” problem first. And the one that shines brighter than the Northern Star is women’s basketball Head Coach Angela Jackson."

Exactly backwards. There's a real crisis at CSU and whether the WBB coach is winning is the last thing the admin should be worrying about, not the first.

"The athletic department at a Division I school is supposed to bring in revenue to the school – it’s about making money, period. That means the teams must win! The women’s basketball program is costing the school money. "

Oh BS. 50% of the universities in the country are going to have losing records. This is the mathematically illiterate argument that everyone must be above average. And I don't believe that WBB makes a lot, if any, money except at top 25 schools. And it's not about making "money, period".

"You can’t tell me you can’t offer a full-ride scholarship to a four-year university to a kid nowadays and they are going to turn you down when nobody else is recruiting them as much as college costs."

Yes, I can tell you that. Students do turn down scholarship offers. The most obvious explanation is that they care about eventually getting their degree and CSU's future is in doubt. Right now students in general, not just athletes, are hesitant to enroll. Men might have delusions about going NBA w/o graduating but women are less likely to believe that.

The author also overestimates the value of scholarships at non-elite public colleges serving low-income students. The fact is, almost no one pays cash. It's mostly financial aid, the difference being loans versus outright grants. Of course the grant is better than the loan but many, if not most, people believe you should go to the best school you can swing financially right now. And that might not be CSU in its present condition.

I'll concede that by reducing standards enough (both athletic and academic) you could get somebody to join the team, but the coach may have made the decision that adding non-competitive players would make things worse rather than better.

PS When CSU came to UTRGV this year, they only brought 6 players, but every one of those 6 put up a good fight and looked real. I'm not sure buying plane tickets for 8 HS-level players to sit on the bench or look outclassed on the court would have made things better.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2017 01:31 PM by edinburger.)
03-04-2017 01:24 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: A stinging piece about CSU's WBB coach 0-24
I see a bigger issue, which is why is Chicago State in D-I.

There isn't enough institutional money or a large enough student body or excess income to justify it.

I do agree with one point in the article, but I would apply it to all Chicago State Basketball and Volleyball, which is stop using the JCC and move games into the more modest gym. The JCC should frankly be leased to the City to run, for $1 and a % of any profits. This way it's maintenance is shifted off CSU and to City, who can contract your maintenance service to fulfill that role.

Can they fire the coach and hire another for $30-40K a year less? Definitely. And I would probably do that too, as I drop down to NAIA/D-II.
03-04-2017 04:50 PM
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Brillio Offline
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RE: A stinging piece about CSU's WBB coach 0-24
They can at least renogiate that contract. What power does she have?
03-04-2017 05:18 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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RE: A stinging piece about CSU's WBB coach 0-24
(03-04-2017 04:50 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I see a bigger issue, which is why is Chicago State in D-I.

There isn't enough institutional money or a large enough student body or excess income to justify it.

I do agree with one point in the article, but I would apply it to all Chicago State Basketball and Volleyball, which is stop using the JCC and move games into the more modest gym. The JCC should frankly be leased to the City to run, for $1 and a % of any profits. This way it's maintenance is shifted off CSU and to City, who can contract your maintenance service to fulfill that role.

Can they fire the coach and hire another for $30-40K a year less? Definitely. And I would probably do that too, as I drop down to NAIA/D-II.


Really. So you would fire the coach that is under contract, not knowing the severance package she might receive and then hope to hire another coach for $60,000 to $70,000 per year? For a school with few resources? For a D1 head coach? In the city of Chicago? You are delusional.

Why are you referencing an article from the Chicago Crusader? What is the Chicago Crusader? This is a poorly written article, a basic hit job on the coach at Chicago State. Chicago State women's basketball average attendance last year was 225. UMKC averaged 272. UVU averaged 342 per game. GCU averaged 450 per game. The attendance at the women's games is not that good for many WAC and D1 schools. Her salary is among the lowest at the D1 level. If your goal is to hunt down negative stories on Chicago State, at least try to reference legitimate newspaper sources.

Schools never move down from Division 1 athletics. Chicago State has been at D1 for over thirty years, so I don't see them dropping down.
What is in it for Chicago State? As a D1 school, they are making about $500,000 per year on the money guarantee games in basketball. That revenue goes away as a D2 school. They get NCAA Tournament revenue as a member of the WAC. Last year their share would have been around $250,000. That revenue goes away as a D2 school. So how do they make up the revenue?

They won't save any money dropping down. They have an athletic budget of $6.2 million that has been reduced in half due to the state budget crisis. The University of Illinois at Springfield playing at D2 has an athletic budget of $3.2 million. They are the only D2 public university in the state. So how much does Chicago State save by dropping down?

Why would they lease the Jones Convocation Center to anyone? They own it. It is on their campus property. You think because they have a $59 million backlog on deferred maintenance they should lease it out? In the state of Illinois, there is a deferred maintenance backlog of $3.9 billion at public universities and community colleges. The $59 million number is peanuts in the state of Illinois.

I don't get you argument. The enrollment issues don't have to be permanent problems. They can be solved. The new board can bring in new management and hold people accountable. The state could pass a budget and get the $40 million owed to Chicago State. I don't see what Chicago State gets from dropping down in athletics. They need to be more competitive, but that is a WAC issue.
03-05-2017 08:57 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: A stinging piece about CSU's WBB coach 0-24
I'd fire them when convenient, meaning when the cost is low. CSU has no money to pay severance. WBB is no value, so I'd let the contract run out. Of course CSU is known for bad hires, and also in the academic side, arbitrary fires that get them dragged into court. So they might fire her with a $1m severance based on past moves - par for the course.

Chicago State Should drop athletics completely, save all the money. But if they insist on having sports, they should play at the level they are actually funding, which is NAIA. I don't like liars and hypocrites. Officially Chicago State claims a budget of $5.8m which would barely be minimum for the WAC. The WAC gave much lower numbers to the NYT, closer to $2.6m, which was more or less confirmed by CSU Athletic staff.

To support D-I on say a reasonable cost of $500 per student for a $6m minimum budget (that is no frills) requires an enrollment of 12,000. You can increase the subsidy to a very high figure, say $1000 per student, and make it work for a student body of 6,000. But lets get real SoCalBob, there are not 3,000 students just waiting for a Chicago State to get a budget to enroll, even to meet that low number. Except for Governors State, the Illinois system is seeing declining enrollment everywhere, and has for a few years. It's not all budgetary, much of that is demographic.

But let's say a budget did get in place, and taxes are raised some and some programs axed completely to cover the increased expenditures in high need areas. How will that affect Chicago State's enrollment? The answer is very little in the short term. The rebuilding process will take years. Chicago State wont get that higher attendance necessary to support D-I athletics until well into the next decade. And that is if reforms actually take place at the school to fix the academic and more importantly administrative issues, and a flood of money is given to them to fix all the facility issues (that $59m backlog). Building trust is not a quick thing, and asking people to commit 4 or 5 years of their lives to your institution is a major rebuild of trust.

The JCC is separate issue. And I said so; only your dim witted mind conflated it with maintenance backlog. It is a money pit for the school, expensive to operate, never filled for any school event save convocation (lease agreement would allow a few use dates free). So why not lease it to make money from the JCC instead of lose money? The older gym they have is more than sufficient for the size of crowds they draw for games, and much cheaper to operate. So absolutely, make a move that improves the cash flow.

The maintenance backlog is more related to rebuilding the school to be an attractive place for students to want to attend. It will be a sunk cost. Separate issue. But perhaps related in that the extra money from leasing the JCC would allow you to perform some additional maintenance on campus elsewhere.

But my biggest issue with you is that you seem to think schools exist for athletic teams. Spending any government subsidy money on sports is good and holy to you. That is backasswards, and frankly welfare syndrome thinking. You like something therefore somebody else (i.e., tax payers and specifically their money earmarked for education) should pay for it. But then again you are not alone in that thinking. Many out there think college athletics at D-I level is something of a right (as in positive rights), and people who say it should not impact tax funds are taking away your right to spectate. It's a thinking pattern common in the deep south and African-American communities, which often will cite anecdotal evidence about so-so having their life "saved" by athletics.

It matters not. Chicago State will be dropped by the WAC after 2017-18 anyway. The only question is will they be back in 2017-18 or just quit this summer. I advocate the former, as with letting the WBB coach go, honor your contract first.
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2017 03:57 AM by Stugray2.)
03-06-2017 03:48 AM
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