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UTEP 3,2,1
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Post: #41
RE: UTEP 3,2,1
(03-04-2017 12:17 PM)757ODU Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 12:08 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 08:53 AM)bigblue78 Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 08:43 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(03-03-2017 02:49 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  First, it was a really well played game by both teams. Slow pace with good defense but both offenses played well.

I disagree on Fields. We were negative almost 1 point per possession with him on the court. Thought hes defense was rough in particular. He def isnt scared to shoot though.

Talley was obviously the MVP but Stith played well in the first half. Taylor was the under the radar MVap, imo. His defense on Thomas was key and rebounded well.



Fields had a decent enough game. Better than decent given the huge circumstances of that game and in that hostile atmosphere.

Attributing a team stat - (negative almost 1 point per possession) - to an individual is crazy. Hypothetically - It would be like blaming Baker because ODU was a negative 6 in rebounding while he was in the game (maybe Vassor came in for Denzel during much of the time Baker was in the game which is the real story there). Whoever is on the court, there are 4 other individuals out there with them. If all 5 players were to go in and come out at the same time then they all would be guilty of the same negative. It would not necessarily mean however that they all played to the same level.


BJ was the only one scoring for ODU in the first several minutes of the game. Most of that time they were playing man-to-man against ODU. Their entire team suffered the negative that he was putting on them even though for the most part his scoring was all the responsibility of the one player that was actually assigned to guard BJ. Wilms (for example) who did not guard BJ one-on-one should not be held to task for that (via this stat) even though he was on the floor too. This +/- stat related to 'team' points does just that.


My original observation was that I thought Fields rose to the occassion by not playing timid and managing to execute the offense while Caver had to sit.

GF's counter argument was that ODU was much less effective with Fields executing the offense than when Caver was in the game (1 pt per possession is a large margin). It's a qualitive observation vs a statistical reality. I always enjoy GF's alternative analyses and often amend my conclusions after his posts.

Your original observation was on target. Coach Jones mentioned Fields in his post game remarks as having played a good game. Doubt he would have had that opinion had he sucked as badly as GF's +/- stat would have us believe. He would have pulled him out of the game and put Pinckney in if he was playing that poorly. ODU frequently goes through hot and cold shooting streaks and it is very easy to be in or out of the action at the wrong time for this stat to be all that meaningful in the short term. I believe Fields only played about 12 minutes total with Caver playing about 28.

I agree with the points you have made. I will say that it is very visible that Fields is not where he needs to be defensively. I still think he's going to become a good player and will learn to be a better defender.

Thanks 757 and I also agree with what you are saying about Fields defensively. Coach Floyd did exactly what I would probably have done after Fields came in ... He posted up his 6'-3" guard against our 5'-9" Fields and got a fairly easy basket. I was pretty surprised that he didn't go back to that again and again since we stayed in the man-to-man defense. Guess he had his reasons.

I suspect if Fields gets a decent amount of minutes next season he will progress defensively by utilizing the one strength that he needs to have (quickness). Without that he will have difficultly at both ends of the floor due to his small stature. I have no doubt that he is still very much learning what he can and can't get away with playing against Division 1 scholarship college basketball players. He knows he is smaller than his opponents and can't fix that, but he does have some unique strengths that the bigger players don't. He just has to figure out how to best use them to his advantage at both ends of the court. With Caver and Green on the team next season, the question is how much will Fields play if Green ends up playing minutes at the point? Time will tell.
03-04-2017 01:07 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #42
RE: UTEP 3,2,1
I never said Fields was the sole reason the team struggled while he was in the game. Its just a fact they played badly with him in.

Hes not a good shooter and I believe he took bad shots (made 1). He did not get the team kn theirnsets very well and he started too far outside. He struggled to guard.

Hes a true freshman project playing mins he shouldnt be getting (perfect redshirt candidate). But hes the best we have behind Caver.

Ps there are instances where a guy played well but the other 4 did not with him on court. Did not look to be the case Thurs, imo
03-04-2017 01:32 PM
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Blue_Trombone Offline
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Post: #43
RE: UTEP 3,2,1
(03-04-2017 12:52 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 12:39 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 12:12 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Is the game against UTSA this afternoon being shown on a TV station, or on a streaming network that does not involve a fee? Thanks for your help.

C-USA.tv

Thanks Trombone ... My wife mentioned that to me this morning, but I thought that feed had a fee associated with it. I'll give it a try and see if I can get it linked up to the big screen via my Apple TV. Thanks again and GO MONARCHS.

Oops, didn't see the part where you mentioned a fee. I think it may have that.
03-04-2017 03:19 PM
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Post: #44
RE: UTEP 3,2,1
(03-04-2017 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I never said Fields was the sole reason the team struggled while he was in the game. Its just a fact they played badly with him in.

Hes not a good shooter and I believe he took bad shots (made 1). He did not get the team kn theirnsets very well and he started too far outside. He struggled to guard.

Hes a true freshman project playing mins he shouldnt be getting (perfect redshirt candidate). But hes the best we have behind Caver.

Ps there are instances where a guy played well but the other 4 did not with him on court. Did not look to be the case Thurs, imo

You didn't say it but the implication you made about Fields was there via your stat comment much like it is with your comments above ... (i.e. not a good shooter, took bad shots, didn't get them in their sets, started too far outside, shouldn't be getting minutes, yada, yada, yada). From this and a few other instances it really appears that you have some kind of personal thing against Fields. Everyone realizes that he is not the best point guard on the team, that he is a true freshman, that he is undersized, and that he has plenty to work on in making the jump from high school to college.

He was 1-3 from the floor if memory serves me correctly, and scored 3 points. By any 'stats' that is 3 points in those 3 possessions that he himself shot, or 1 point per possession (which in the past you have lamented as being decent). None of the shots he took were "bad shots" as you have stated. Just to be clear, I am not saying that at this point in his career that Fields is a "good shooter". In this particular game he was adequate though, and his shot selection was good.

I just went back and reviewed the 2nd half of the UTEP game (don't have the 1st half recorded). Fields came in at the 14;21 mark and went out 6 minutes later. During his time in the game the lead increased from a 3 point advantage to an 8 point advantage. The player he was guarding took 2 shots while working one-on-one against Fields, and missed both shots. Another time Fields got caught on a pick, recovered to join in on a double team and helped to create a turnover on the play. Fields was winded and asked to come out of the game or he likely would have been in longer. Immediately (within seconds) after he came out, Kah came in and hit a jumper to push the lead to 10. From that point on UTEP mounted a come back and took the lead going into the final seconds. I also noted your comments that, "Fields didn't get the team into their sets very well and started the offense too far out". The recording I just reviewed of the 2nd half of Thursday's game showed that to be absolutely false. In fact, even Jason Capel doing the game commented while I was reviewing the action on the nice job that Fields was doing.

Fields is not the only back-up point guard option. I assume that you noticed Pinckney playing in that role for several games recently. If Fields was so poorly doing all of what you have accused him of doing against UTEP two things stand to reason ... First, Jones would have at least given Pinckney a try to see if he could do better. Second, neither Jones nor Twardzik would have mentioned the good play of Fields in their post game comments such as they did.
03-04-2017 03:59 PM
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Post: #45
RE: UTEP 3,2,1
(03-04-2017 03:19 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 12:52 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 12:39 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 12:12 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Is the game against UTSA this afternoon being shown on a TV station, or on a streaming network that does not involve a fee? Thanks for your help.

C-USA.tv

Thanks Trombone ... My wife mentioned that to me this morning, but I thought that feed had a fee associated with it. I'll give it a try and see if I can get it linked up to the big screen via my Apple TV. Thanks again and GO MONARCHS.

Oops, didn't see the part where you mentioned a fee. I think it may have that.

Hey, no problem. I went to the web site and discovered that to be the case.
03-04-2017 04:00 PM
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