Points/Rebounds/Assists/Blocks category leader

KJ.......: 14.8/9.80/3.3/0.5
Dedric.: 19.6/11.6/3.2/2.1
Austin.: 16.3/7.50/0.9/2.2
Shaq...: 14.3/8.60/2.6/2.2
Dozier.: 12.2/11.9/1.3/2.4
Shawne:18.9/8.90/2.7/2.0
Banks..:20.2/7.40/1.3/1.0
Ren.....: 17.2/11.8/1.7/2.4
Vaughn.:19.0/11.8/1.0/2.5

(03-03-2017 11:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Points/Rebounds/Assists/Blocks category leader

KJ.......: 14.8/9.80/3.3/0.5
Dedric.: 19.6/11.6/3.2/2.1
Austin.: 16.3/7.50/0.9/2.2
Shaq...: 14.3/8.60/2.6/2.2
Dozier.: 12.2/11.9/1.3/2.4
Shawne:18.9/8.90/2.7/2.0
Banks..:20.2/7.40/1.3/1.0
Ren.....: 17.2/11.8/1.7/2.4
Vaughn.:19.0/11.8/1.0/2.5

Shots
Shooting %

He is a good player but he is limited...He struggles with guys his size or bigger who can move. It is likely he can overcome that but right now he hasn't and he takes a bunch of forced shots

KJ: 40.5%
Dedric: 40.9%
Dozier: 40.4%
Shawne: 41.6%
Banks: 43.4%

To put shooting % into perspective, for KJ to be shooting 45% this season (respectable) one additional shot of his would need to drop every other game. That is the difference between being 40.5% and 45%.

One shot every other game.

(03-03-2017 12:01 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  KJ: 40.5%
Dedric: 40.9%
Dozier: 40.4%
Shawne: 41.6%
Banks: 43.4%

To put shooting % into perspective, for KJ to be shooting 45% this season (respectable) one additional shot of his would need to drop every other game. That is the difference between being 40.5% and 45%.

One shot every other game.

Worst Box Score plus Minus of every starter on the team...

Worst Win Share per 40 of Every Starter on the team

Again not a bad player but he has flaws and needs to round out his game.

...and he's a freshman. No one's saying he's a finished product. Just fools that say he isn't playing up to expectations or is selfish (despite being the leader of the list above in assists per 40).

And last year Dedric was 6th on the team in ws/40.

And Austin was 7th as a frosh in ws/40. And 8th in box score +/-

And Shaq was 5th in both.

(03-03-2017 12:15 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  ...and he's a freshman. No one's saying he's a finished product. Just fools that say he isn't playing up to expectations or is selfish (despite being the leader of the list above in assists per 40).

And last year Dedric was 6th on the team in ws/40.

And Austin was 7th as a frosh in ws/40. And 8th in box score +/-

And Shaq was 5th in both.

Yes...But lets not act like he is a world beater...He is a flawed player and should not be relied upon so heavily for any successful team

Both Shaq and Austin were role players on their respective teams their freshmen years.

(03-03-2017 12:22 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 12:15 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  ...and he's a freshman. No one's saying he's a finished product. Just fools that say he isn't playing up to expectations or is selfish (despite being the leader of the list above in assists per 40).

And last year Dedric was 6th on the team in ws/40.

And Austin was 7th as a frosh in ws/40. And 8th in box score +/-

And Shaq was 5th in both.

Yes...But lets not act like he is a world beater...He is a flawed player and should not be relied upon so heavily for any successful team

Both Shaq and Austin were role players on their respective teams their freshmen years.

Wut?

(03-03-2017 12:56 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 12:22 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 12:15 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  ...and he's a freshman. No one's saying he's a finished product. Just fools that say he isn't playing up to expectations or is selfish (despite being the leader of the list above in assists per 40).

And last year Dedric was 6th on the team in ws/40.

And Austin was 7th as a frosh in ws/40. And 8th in box score +/-

And Shaq was 5th in both.

Yes...But lets not act like he is a world beater...He is a flawed player and should not be relied upon so heavily for any successful team

Both Shaq and Austin were role players on their respective teams their freshmen years.

Wut?

Weren't you the one throwing around the saying that 90% of teams would trade rosters with us based mostly on the Lawsons...Now you admit he is flawed and a freshman...

(03-03-2017 01:01 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 12:56 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 12:22 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 12:15 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  ...and he's a freshman. No one's saying he's a finished product. Just fools that say he isn't playing up to expectations or is selfish (despite being the leader of the list above in assists per 40).

And last year Dedric was 6th on the team in ws/40.

And Austin was 7th as a frosh in ws/40. And 8th in box score +/-

And Shaq was 5th in both.

Yes...But lets not act like he is a world beater...He is a flawed player and should not be relied upon so heavily for any successful team

Both Shaq and Austin were role players on their respective teams their freshmen years.

Wut?

Weren't you the one throwing around the saying that 90% of teams would trade rosters with us based mostly on the Lawsons...Now you admit he is flawed and a freshman...

Logic jump much?

You say you don't like rice, so I didn't offer you orange juice.

I guess we can argue stats all day long.

Based on what I saw last night, I would trade maybe Ojeleye at SMU for Dedric.

That's it to me. There are other good players in this league, but I don't see anyone who does things across the board like those two.

IMO

(03-03-2017 01:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 01:01 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 12:56 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 12:22 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 12:15 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  ...and he's a freshman. No one's saying he's a finished product. Just fools that say he isn't playing up to expectations or is selfish (despite being the leader of the list above in assists per 40).

And last year Dedric was 6th on the team in ws/40.

And Austin was 7th as a frosh in ws/40. And 8th in box score +/-

And Shaq was 5th in both.

Yes...But lets not act like he is a world beater...He is a flawed player and should not be relied upon so heavily for any successful team

Both Shaq and Austin were role players on their respective teams their freshmen years.

Wut?

Weren't you the one throwing around the saying that 90% of teams would trade rosters with us based mostly on the Lawsons...Now you admit he is flawed and a freshman...

Logic jump much?

You say you don't like rice, so I didn't offer you orange juice.

Topic jump yes...Same logic...

KJ flawed player which you now admit...According to you one of the reasons most teams would swap rosters...Why would teams swap rosters when one of the best pieces is a flawed player.

(03-03-2017 01:07 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I guess we can argue stats all day long.

Based on what I saw last night, I would trade maybe Ojeleye at SMU for Dedric.

That's it to me. There are other good players in this league, but I don't see anyone who does things across the board like those two.

IMO

Agreed...Dedric is a very good offensive player, very good rebounder and average defender.

I wouldn't trade Dedric for many other guys in THIS league.

(03-03-2017 01:10 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 01:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 01:01 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 12:56 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 12:22 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Yes...But lets not act like he is a world beater...He is a flawed player and should not be relied upon so heavily for any successful team

Both Shaq and Austin were role players on their respective teams their freshmen years.

Wut?

Weren't you the one throwing around the saying that 90% of teams would trade rosters with us based mostly on the Lawsons...Now you admit he is flawed and a freshman...

Logic jump much?

You say you don't like rice, so I didn't offer you orange juice.

Topic jump yes...Same logic...

KJ flawed player which you now admit...According to you one of the reasons most teams would swap rosters...Why would teams swap rosters when one of the best pieces is a flawed player.

YOU keep calling him "flawed."

He is a frosh who is a really good rebounder, has mettle, acutally distributes well for a big, and really just needs to work on shot selection.

He is lean and part of the issue of being "pushed around" is that he's playing ot of position during decent parts of the game.

Raw talent and ability, his numbers in the OP indicated he is worthy of being included in that company. His numbers are strikingly similar to Dedric's last year, and Dedric is a hell of a player. If KJ can grow as a player, he every easily could be a 16 and 10 guy next year.

I guess if you disparage the players, it's easier to rationalize in favor of the coach.

(03-03-2017 01:13 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 01:07 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I guess we can argue stats all day long.

Based on what I saw last night, I would trade maybe Ojeleye at SMU for Dedric.

That's it to me. There are other good players in this league, but I don't see anyone who does things across the board like those two.

IMO

Agreed...Dedric is a very good offensive player, very good rebounder and average defender.

I wouldn't trade Dedric for many other guys in THIS league.

Average defender?

You trot out all those advanced stats to "prove" KJ is "flawed."

Don't be dishonest, because I know when you were digging up those metrics you had to have seen that Dedric is rated very highly in defensive metrics.

(03-03-2017 01:28 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 01:13 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 01:07 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I guess we can argue stats all day long.

Based on what I saw last night, I would trade maybe Ojeleye at SMU for Dedric.

That's it to me. There are other good players in this league, but I don't see anyone who does things across the board like those two.

IMO

Agreed...Dedric is a very good offensive player, very good rebounder and average defender.

I wouldn't trade Dedric for many other guys in THIS league.

Average defender?

You trot out all those advanced stats to "prove" KJ is "flawed."

Don't be dishonest, because I know when you were digging up those metrics you had to have seen that Dedric is rated very highly in defensive metrics.

Don't know if you will turtle up on this so:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/play...son-1.html

Dedric:

Block Percentage
2015-16 AAC 5.1 (9th)
2016-17 AAC 6.8 (4th)
Career AAC 5.9 (15th)

Defensive Win Shares
2015-16 AAC 2.4 (3rd)
2016-17 AAC 2.4 (4th)
Career AAC 4.8 (10th)

Defensive Rating
2015-16 AAC 93.0 (6th)
2016-17 AAC 93.0 (9th)
Career AAC 93.0 (9th)

Defensive Box Plus/Minus
2015-16 AAC 4.8 (6th)
2016-17 AAC 5.3 (6th)
Career AAC 5.1 (9th)

I had different seats than normal last game and sat close to the home bench. noticed that Dedric does not look like he hits the gym as much as others. Might be interesting to see what he can do if he puts on muscle/weight in the pros, D league, or overseas.

(03-03-2017 01:41 PM)tiger2000 Wrote:  I had different seats than normal last game and sat close to the home bench. noticed that Dedric does not look like he hits the gym as much as others. Might be interesting to see what he can do if he puts on muscle/weight in the pros, D league, or overseas.

As much as I ragged about Frank the Lifechanger as a team trainer, his methods would be fantastic for Dedric, I believe.

(03-03-2017 01:32 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 01:28 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 01:13 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-03-2017 01:07 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I guess we can argue stats all day long.

Based on what I saw last night, I would trade maybe Ojeleye at SMU for Dedric.

That's it to me. There are other good players in this league, but I don't see anyone who does things across the board like those two.

IMO

Agreed...Dedric is a very good offensive player, very good rebounder and average defender.

I wouldn't trade Dedric for many other guys in THIS league.

Average defender?

You trot out all those advanced stats to "prove" KJ is "flawed."

Don't be dishonest, because I know when you were digging up those metrics you had to have seen that Dedric is rated very highly in defensive metrics.

Don't know if you will turtle up on this so:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/play...son-1.html

Dedric:

Block Percentage
2015-16 AAC 5.1 (9th)
2016-17 AAC 6.8 (4th)
Career AAC 5.9 (15th)

Defensive Win Shares
2015-16 AAC 2.4 (3rd)
2016-17 AAC 2.4 (4th)
Career AAC 4.8 (10th)

Defensive Rating
2015-16 AAC 93.0 (6th)
2016-17 AAC 93.0 (9th)
Career AAC 93.0 (9th)

Defensive Box Plus/Minus
2015-16 AAC 4.8 (6th)
2016-17 AAC 5.3 (6th)
Career AAC 5.1 (9th)

My lying damn eyes say otherwise.

Does he grab a bunch of rebounds yes
Does he get a bunch of blocks yes
Does get steals yes

Do we give him help against below average post players yes
Does he get destroyed if caught in a switch on a high screen yes

So wouldn't you say the fact Tubby feels he needs defensive help along with the fact that other teams try to get him involved in the pick roll indicate they are not good in these areas.

You see you have to watch the games to get a true feel of what is happening...

And I posted Stats earlier because that is what you respond to...Anyone watching enough games would know KJ is flawed and mostly ineffective against certain types of players unless he is shooting well from the outside.