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Any lawyers on here? Question!
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Redbanksdog Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
(03-02-2017 03:36 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 03:16 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  ECU where did you get this information?

Mr. K's wife ("Mrs. K") knew that she could manage to pay the mortgage for about 5-6 years before she would ultimately lose it to the bank. Knowing this, Mrs. K decided to GIFT 1 acre of land to her daughter, son-in-law, and grandson.

From our realtor, who supposedly dug into it for us.

It seemed to line up with the info on QPublic where it shows it was gifted in 2009.

Thanks ECU, I'm just trying to help.

I wonder when Mrs. K mortgage the property. Maybe she deeded that one acre to her daughter before she took out the mortgage to pay for her husband's medical bills? If the property had been in the family since 1960. I would think at one time the property was paid for.
03-02-2017 03:49 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
I know a good lawyer in your neck of the woods, check him out:

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03-04-2017 12:04 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
(03-02-2017 09:52 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:21 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 09:16 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 09:02 PM)I45owl Wrote:  I have to believe the best move is probably to contest ownership of the one acre, as harsh as that sounds...
can you elaborate more on this?
There is something about the way that family set this up that makes me suspicious about their motives. It could be just a way to make sure the younger generation has a place to stay, but it could also be with the intent to keep or regain possession of the entire 24 acres. At the very least, the situation looks awkward. Given the timeframe involved, it seems like the best move for the family would've been to put the land on the market rather than let it go into foreclosure. So, why didn't they do that?
How would you go about contesting ownership

You file a lawsuit to try title (or whatever it is called in your jurisdiction). You send notices to everyone who might have a claim. They either show up and prove their claim, or their claims are extinguished.

As for the gift, as a general rule you can't give more of an interest in property than you have. So if you own the land subject to the lien, the gift of part of that land remains subject to the lien unless the bank releases it.

I'm giving you general rules here, you need to consult a lawyer with real estate expertise in your jurisdiction to understand exactly what the laws affecting you are. Texas real property law is somewhat different from the other states. Texas real property law is based largely upon Spanish law because so much of the land had already been titled, bought, and sold under Spanish/Mexican law by the time Texas entered the US. Louisiana is based on French law, the other 48 states on English law, and there are differences from state to state.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2017 09:09 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
03-04-2017 01:47 PM
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Jugnaut Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
(03-04-2017 01:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 09:52 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:21 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 09:16 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 09:02 PM)I45owl Wrote:  I have to believe the best move is probably to contest ownership of the one acre, as harsh as that sounds...
can you elaborate more on this?
There is something about the way that family set this up that makes me suspicious about their motives. It could be just a way to make sure the younger generation has a place to stay, but it could also be with the intent to keep or regain possession of the entire 24 acres. At the very least, the situation looks awkward. Given the timeframe involved, it seems like the best move for the family would've been to put the land on the market rather than let it go into foreclosure. So, why didn't they do that?
How would you go about contesting ownership

You file a lawsuit to clear title (or whatever it is called in your jurisdiction). You send notices to everyone who might have a claim. They either show up and prove their claim, or their claims are extinguished.

As for the gift, as a general rule you can't give more of an interest in property than you have. So if you own the land subject to the lien, the gift of part of that land remains subject to the lien unless the bank releases it.

I'm giving you general rules here, you need to consult a lawyer with real estate expertise in your jurisdiction to understand exactly what the laws affecting you are. Texas real property law is somewhat different from the other states. Texas real property law is based largely upon Spanish law because so much of the land had already been titled, bought, and sold under Spanish/Mexican law by the time Texas entered the US. Louisiana is based on French law, the other 48 states on English law, and there are differences from state to state.

I was thinking the same thing, in bankruptcy court, you call that a "fraudulent transfer."
03-04-2017 04:21 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
(03-04-2017 01:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 09:52 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:21 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 09:16 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 09:02 PM)I45owl Wrote:  I have to believe the best move is probably to contest ownership of the one acre, as harsh as that sounds...
can you elaborate more on this?
There is something about the way that family set this up that makes me suspicious about their motives. It could be just a way to make sure the younger generation has a place to stay, but it could also be with the intent to keep or regain possession of the entire 24 acres. At the very least, the situation looks awkward. Given the timeframe involved, it seems like the best move for the family would've been to put the land on the market rather than let it go into foreclosure. So, why didn't they do that?
How would you go about contesting ownership

You file a lawsuit to clear title (or whatever it is called in your jurisdiction). You send notices to everyone who might have a claim. They either show up and prove their claim, or their claims are extinguished.

As for the gift, as a general rule you can't give more of an interest in property than you have. So if you own the land subject to the lien, the gift of part of that land remains subject to the lien unless the bank releases it.

I'm giving you general rules here, you need to consult a lawyer with real estate expertise in your jurisdiction to understand exactly what the laws affecting you are. Texas real property law is somewhat different from the other states. Texas real property law is based largely upon Spanish law because so much of the land had already been titled, bought, and sold under Spanish/Mexican law by the time Texas entered the US. Louisiana is based on French law, the other 48 states on English law, and there are differences from state to state.

what even is the eviction procedure in a case like this?
03-04-2017 04:25 PM
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ECUGrad07 Online
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Post: #86
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
UPDATE

The bank that owns the property contacted my realtor today and told her that they have to cancel our contract on the property due to "ongoing litigation."

APPARENTLY - when the property went to auction on the courthouse steps back in November, a woman bid way low on it, and won. However, she did not make the cashiers check out to the correct party, and the bank contacted her to let her know that her bid was rejected, as a result.

She filed a lawsuit, claiming that she has rightful claim to the property.

I'm not sure what has transpired over the last 3-4 months, but the bank never mentioned this to us, and are only telling us now that a judge has agreed to hear the case. The bank's lawyers assure us that the woman does not have a leg to stand on in the matter, and they are begging us to not walk away, and to give them about 30 days to clear up this matter. They are apparently afraid we are going to walk away and that they will have to start from scratch.

However, if the judge sides with the woman, she gets to buy the property. But apparently the bank in no way wants to sell for anywhere near that low of a number.

So... it's a wait and see game now to see how the hearing goes. Sigh... nothing is easy.

03-banghead
03-07-2017 05:03 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
Just when I was thinking to myself that perhaps we all over-analyzed your question....

Good luck. Spin Room Meet and Greet on your back forty in 2018.
03-07-2017 05:10 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
(03-07-2017 05:03 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  UPDATE

The bank that owns the property contacted my realtor today and told her that they have to cancel our contract on the property due to "ongoing litigation."

APPARENTLY - when the property went to auction on the courthouse steps back in November, a woman bid way low on it, and won. However, she did not make the cashiers check out to the correct party, and the bank contacted her to let her know that her bid was rejected, as a result.

She filed a lawsuit, claiming that she has rightful claim to the property.

I'm not sure what has transpired over the last 3-4 months, but the bank never mentioned this to us, and are only telling us now that a judge has agreed to hear the case. The bank's lawyers assure us that the woman does not have a leg to stand on in the matter, and they are begging us to not walk away, and to give them about 30 days to clear up this matter. They are apparently afraid we are going to walk away and that they will have to start from scratch.

However, if the judge sides with the woman, she gets to buy the property. But apparently the bank in no way wants to sell for anywhere near that low of a number.

So... it's a wait and see game now to see how the hearing goes. Sigh... nothing is easy.

03-banghead

I hope you get the property. But I would consult an attorney on what to do if the lady wins her court case. You deserve to get back all your money. If they are not your lawyers and you are not paying for them, then don't trust them.

PS: Keep us updated!
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2017 05:26 PM by CrimsonPhantom.)
03-07-2017 05:26 PM
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ECUGrad07 Online
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Post: #89
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
(03-07-2017 05:10 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Just when I was thinking to myself that perhaps we all over-analyzed your question....

Good luck. Spin Room Meet and Greet on your back forty in 2018.

Fly into Tallahassee and drive about 45 minutes north, an I'll have some steaks and homebrews ready for ya.

I'll be the only person in south GA with an ECU flag flying. Can't miss it.
03-07-2017 05:49 PM
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ECUGrad07 Online
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Post: #90
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
(03-07-2017 05:26 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(03-07-2017 05:03 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  UPDATE

The bank that owns the property contacted my realtor today and told her that they have to cancel our contract on the property due to "ongoing litigation."

APPARENTLY - when the property went to auction on the courthouse steps back in November, a woman bid way low on it, and won. However, she did not make the cashiers check out to the correct party, and the bank contacted her to let her know that her bid was rejected, as a result.

She filed a lawsuit, claiming that she has rightful claim to the property.

I'm not sure what has transpired over the last 3-4 months, but the bank never mentioned this to us, and are only telling us now that a judge has agreed to hear the case. The bank's lawyers assure us that the woman does not have a leg to stand on in the matter, and they are begging us to not walk away, and to give them about 30 days to clear up this matter. They are apparently afraid we are going to walk away and that they will have to start from scratch.

However, if the judge sides with the woman, she gets to buy the property. But apparently the bank in no way wants to sell for anywhere near that low of a number.

So... it's a wait and see game now to see how the hearing goes. Sigh... nothing is easy.

03-banghead

I hope you get the property. But I would consult an attorney on what to do if the lady wins her court case. You deserve to get back all your money. If they are not your lawyers and you are not paying for them, then don't trust them.

PS: Keep us updated!

Thanks! Besides the earnest money, I've got no real skin in the game to date.

I really hope it isn't a My Cousin Vinny situation with a local judge and local plaintiff...sigh.
03-07-2017 05:50 PM
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Redbanksdog Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
Thanks for the update. That sounds like a Tax Sale thing for it to be on the Court House steps.

Good Luck; that came out of left field.
03-07-2017 06:40 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #92
RE: Any lawyers on here? Question!
(03-04-2017 04:21 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 01:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 09:52 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:21 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 09:16 PM)john01992 Wrote:  can you elaborate more on this?
There is something about the way that family set this up that makes me suspicious about their motives. It could be just a way to make sure the younger generation has a place to stay, but it could also be with the intent to keep or regain possession of the entire 24 acres. At the very least, the situation looks awkward. Given the timeframe involved, it seems like the best move for the family would've been to put the land on the market rather than let it go into foreclosure. So, why didn't they do that?
How would you go about contesting ownership

You file a lawsuit to clear title (or whatever it is called in your jurisdiction). You send notices to everyone who might have a claim. They either show up and prove their claim, or their claims are extinguished.

As for the gift, as a general rule you can't give more of an interest in property than you have. So if you own the land subject to the lien, the gift of part of that land remains subject to the lien unless the bank releases it.

I'm giving you general rules here, you need to consult a lawyer with real estate expertise in your jurisdiction to understand exactly what the laws affecting you are. Texas real property law is somewhat different from the other states. Texas real property law is based largely upon Spanish law because so much of the land had already been titled, bought, and sold under Spanish/Mexican law by the time Texas entered the US. Louisiana is based on French law, the other 48 states on English law, and there are differences from state to state.

I was thinking the same thing, in bankruptcy court, you call that a "fraudulent transfer."

This was also the premise I was operating under.

(03-02-2017 01:29 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  "There is a legal description of the property against which the lien is filed...(TRUE) and THAT is what he bought...(TRUE) NOT what is recorded at the registrar. Not all deeds are filed."
You lost me on the last two.

You don't have to file every deed. Of course you should so that a title search shows up correctly and they know who to contact if there is a dispute, but you don't have to.... so what is recorded isn't always what 'is'.

This is especially true in FDIC asset sales or sometimes even simply securitized asset sales where 'old bank' sells (or loses) an asset and 'new bank' takes it over. They may not re-file the liens in the new name... so while they ARE legally the lien holder, they may not get notified of the conveyance... until there is a true 'sale'.
03-08-2017 11:07 AM
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