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University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #21
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 02:57 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 01:30 PM)panama Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 12:22 PM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:20 AM)p23570 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:15 AM)panama Wrote:  Their endowment is $10B so I assume they will be ok.
LOL. More of the same form you.

You really struggle with the concept of $ as these schools. AD loans and endowment have nothing to do with each other. Nothing.

You can't simply say the school's endowment is huge so they can just take or borrow whatever is needed for the AD, it's no big deal.

Please explain why not?

There will be no explanation

Because no examples have ever been given of a university taking money out of its endowment to pay for athletics.

Cheers!

Sure they do. Stanford has all of it's scholarships for athletics endowed.


Many schools could use more of their endowments for daily operating expenses, but choose not too. Unless the cash was restricted to a specific purpose, it can be spent at any time.

One of the big criticisms of the huge endowment schools is that they spend to little of their endowments...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/opini....html?_r=0

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016...endowments

http://time.com/money/4194739/wealthy-co...ncial-aid/
03-01-2017 03:14 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 03:14 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 02:57 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 01:30 PM)panama Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 12:22 PM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:20 AM)p23570 Wrote:  LOL. More of the same form you.

You really struggle with the concept of $ as these schools. AD loans and endowment have nothing to do with each other. Nothing.

You can't simply say the school's endowment is huge so they can just take or borrow whatever is needed for the AD, it's no big deal.

Please explain why not?

There will be no explanation

Because no examples have ever been given of a university taking money out of its endowment to pay for athletics.

Cheers!

Sure they do. Stanford has all of it's scholarships for athletics endowed.


Many schools could use more of their endowments for daily operating expenses, but choose not too. Unless the cash was restricted to a specific purpose, it can be spent at any time.

One of the big criticisms of the huge endowment schools is that they spend to little of their endowments...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/opini....html?_r=0

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016...endowments

http://time.com/money/4194739/wealthy-co...ncial-aid/

I read every word of those linked articles you provided: No examples of endowments paying for athletics were given. There was a lot of stuff about people WANTING to dip into their schools endowment for various things, but no actual example.

Cheers!
03-01-2017 03:27 PM
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wavefan12 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 03:27 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 03:14 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 02:57 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 01:30 PM)panama Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 12:22 PM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  Please explain why not?

There will be no explanation

Because no examples have ever been given of a university taking money out of its endowment to pay for athletics.

Cheers!

Sure they do. Stanford has all of it's scholarships for athletics endowed.


Many schools could use more of their endowments for daily operating expenses, but choose not too. Unless the cash was restricted to a specific purpose, it can be spent at any time.

One of the big criticisms of the huge endowment schools is that they spend to little of their endowments...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/opini....html?_r=0

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016...endowments

http://time.com/money/4194739/wealthy-co...ncial-aid/

I read every word of those linked articles you provided: No examples of endowments paying for athletics were given. There was a lot of stuff about people WANTING to dip into their schools endowment for various things, but no actual example.

Cheers!

It's just accounting. Whether it comes from the endowment or working capital its the same thing as then they just use the endowment money for something that would have come from working capital.
03-01-2017 03:40 PM
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wavefan12 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 02:37 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 12:55 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  Money is so cheap that they would rather borrow at 4% as opposed to using the endowment to pay off the debt because they believe they will get a better return from the endowment investments.

And since this thread was bogus to begin with, I'm allowed to say this in response:


and of course they expect that kind of return, because they've probably got their huge endowment with high-end hedge funds that use illegal information to beat the market at every twist and turn. Wall Street is rigged, of course.

Not sure what that has to do with anything. BTW, hedge funds are getting slaughtered with their investments and are disappearing everyday. Rich folks/organizations are realizing what a waste of money many hedge funds are....
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2017 03:42 PM by wavefan12.)
03-01-2017 03:41 PM
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p23570
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Post: #25
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 01:30 PM)panama Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 12:22 PM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:20 AM)p23570 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:15 AM)panama Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 10:09 AM)bluesox Wrote:  The university of Michigan has over 2 billion in debt

Their endowment is $10B so I assume they will be ok.
LOL. More of the same form you.

You really struggle with the concept of $ as these schools. AD loans and endowment have nothing to do with each other. Nothing.

You can't simply say the school's endowment is huge so they can just take or borrow whatever is needed for the AD, it's no big deal.

Please explain why not?

There will be no explanation
LOL. there doesn't need to be an explanation becasue most of us realize how ridiculous your plan is.

But for Fun.
Rice has a 5.3 billion $ endowment. Maybe you should call them and let them know if they just use some of that money in the AD it won't be a big deal at all. You can likely singlehandedly get them out of C-USA with your brilliant plan. Say a 100m AD for the next decade would surely get them an AAC invite or better yet, maybe a p-5.

Or you are FOS and have no idea what you are talking about and Endowments are a completely separate entity from AD budgets.

I'm going to guess the latter.
03-01-2017 03:44 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #26
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 02:09 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  $240 million seems like a big number but in perspective it is comparable to someone with a $50k salary having $75k in debt. No way either party could pay off that debt in a year or three but they don't have to.

Its more like someone with net worth $1M having $24k in debt
03-01-2017 03:47 PM
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mturn017 Online
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Post: #27
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 03:44 PM)p23570 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 01:30 PM)panama Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 12:22 PM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:20 AM)p23570 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:15 AM)panama Wrote:  Their endowment is $10B so I assume they will be ok.
LOL. More of the same form you.

You really struggle with the concept of $ as these schools. AD loans and endowment have nothing to do with each other. Nothing.

You can't simply say the school's endowment is huge so they can just take or borrow whatever is needed for the AD, it's no big deal.

Please explain why not?

There will be no explanation
LOL. there doesn't need to be an explanation becasue most of us realize how ridiculous your plan is.

But for Fun.
Rice has a 5.3 billion $ endowment. Maybe you should call them and let them know if they just use some of that money in the AD it won't be a big deal at all. You can likely singlehandedly get them out of C-USA with your brilliant plan. Say a 100m AD for the next decade would surely get them an AAC invite or better yet, maybe a p-5.

Or you are FOS and have no idea what you are talking about and Endowments are a completely separate entity from AD budgets.

I'm going to guess the latter.

The truth is somewhere in between. Rice can use as much money from their general fund as their president and board deem appropriate. So while it's not likely Rice is putting 100 million a year into athletics they're also not floating the AD on contributions, ticket sales and conference payouts. Rice is a private school so we really don't know a lot about their finances but if the will to supercharge their AD was there then there'd be nothing stopping them. Public schools face more restrictions and that will depend on the state.
03-01-2017 03:59 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #28
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
The Big 10 Network and tv contracts could go bust next year. This is how schools tend to used to try to pay off their debts. When the tv money dries up? The P5 schools could go belly up with debt. That is why the whole college athletics should be reformed just in case.
03-01-2017 03:59 PM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #29
University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
It's the Auther Anderson way of accounting
03-01-2017 04:01 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #30
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 03:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The Big 10 Network and tv contracts could go bust next year. This is how schools tend to used to try to pay off their debts. When the tv money dries up? The P5 schools could go belly up with debt. That is why the whole college athletics should be reformed just in case.

Michigan and Bama will not go belly up. They dont make most of their money from TV. Now Iowa State and Wake is another matter.
03-01-2017 04:01 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #31
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 03:41 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  Not sure what that has to do with anything.

Because the thread was bogus to begin with, and didn't have a valid point. So I went tangential.
03-01-2017 04:36 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #32
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 04:36 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 03:41 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  Not sure what that has to do with anything.

Because the thread was bogus to begin with, and didn't have a valid point. So I went tangential.


Well, we know who is really the bogus here and it is not this thread. It shows a pattern that P5 schools are spending money that they really do not have for their ADs.
03-01-2017 04:40 PM
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p23570
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Post: #33
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 04:01 PM)panama Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 03:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The Big 10 Network and tv contracts could go bust next year. This is how schools tend to used to try to pay off their debts. When the tv money dries up? The P5 schools could go belly up with debt. That is why the whole college athletics should be reformed just in case.

Michigan and Bama will not go belly up. They dont make most of their money from TV. Now Iowa State and Wake is another matter.

And once again you are completely uninformed as usual.

It's funny watching uninformed folks like yourself group schools like ISU and Wake together even though they are different in every way possible.

Do some research on the level of fan support through donations, ticket sales, and attendance and you will quickly see that they are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

But I must say that you are quite entertaining at this point.
03-01-2017 04:41 PM
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p23570
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Post: #34
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 03:59 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 03:44 PM)p23570 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 01:30 PM)panama Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 12:22 PM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:20 AM)p23570 Wrote:  LOL. More of the same form you.

You really struggle with the concept of $ as these schools. AD loans and endowment have nothing to do with each other. Nothing.

You can't simply say the school's endowment is huge so they can just take or borrow whatever is needed for the AD, it's no big deal.

Please explain why not?

There will be no explanation
LOL. there doesn't need to be an explanation becasue most of us realize how ridiculous your plan is.

But for Fun.
Rice has a 5.3 billion $ endowment. Maybe you should call them and let them know if they just use some of that money in the AD it won't be a big deal at all. You can likely singlehandedly get them out of C-USA with your brilliant plan. Say a 100m AD for the next decade would surely get them an AAC invite or better yet, maybe a p-5.

Or you are FOS and have no idea what you are talking about and Endowments are a completely separate entity from AD budgets.

I'm going to guess the latter.

The truth is somewhere in between. Rice can use as much money from their general fund as their president and board deem appropriate. So while it's not likely Rice is putting 100 million a year into athletics they're also not floating the AD on contributions, ticket sales and conference payouts. Rice is a private school so we really don't know a lot about their finances but if the will to supercharge their AD was there then there'd be nothing stopping them. Public schools face more restrictions and that will depend on the state.
No it's not. Endowment has nothing to do with AD finances, it's separate for good reason.

Having a big endowment does not make you able to borrow money like what we are discussing here with Michigan. Having a huge fanbase with fans who donate money, buy tickets, and watch on TV determines this kind of borrowing.
03-01-2017 04:45 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #35
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 04:40 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  P5 schools are spending money that they really do not have

Do you own your house outright, now?

Didn't think so.


/thread

(this might help: https://www.google.com/search?q=definiti...8&oe=utf-8)
03-01-2017 04:45 PM
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wavefan12 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 04:40 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 04:36 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 03:41 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  Not sure what that has to do with anything.

Because the thread was bogus to begin with, and didn't have a valid point. So I went tangential.


Well, we know who is really the bogus here and it is not this thread. It shows a pattern that P5 schools are spending money that they really do not have for their ADs.

Depends on how you value athletics.
03-01-2017 04:47 PM
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p23570
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Post: #37
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 04:45 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 04:40 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  P5 schools are spending money that they really do not have

Do you own your house outright, now?

Didn't think so.


/thread

(this might help: https://www.google.com/search?q=definiti...8&oe=utf-8)
I do and I still think many p-5 programs are spending at an unsustainable rate, as are most of the g-5.
03-01-2017 04:52 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #38
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 11:18 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  All universities and most athletic depts carry debt, and they service that debt.

That's how buildings are built, as well as other large capital expenses.


/bogus thread

The thread is not bogus! Some of the conclusions being drawn from the information are bogus.

Debt is debt. But the inability or ability to service the debt is another matter entirely.

So instead of dismissing things out of hand because you do not like the direction of the posts, try educating the discussion with facts.
03-01-2017 04:54 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #39
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
Thanks to endless quantitative easing (read: creating money out of thin air / "managed" inflation) interest rates are more or less zero.

The Fed is too political and cowardly to dare try to pump the brakes on this runaway train, because it is chasing all available assets into the stock market. Because why keep money in savings when you lose 5-6% a year to inflation alone?

Most major .edu athletic programs are tied to public universities. So the amount they can borrow without getting dinged on their credit rating is pretty staggering. Finch and Moody's even give annual creditworthiness ratings to nearly every major athletic department (stop to fully digest THAT one for a moment).

This insanity will continue until the bubble bursts spectacularly, leaving a lot of major players hurting badly. Or until facility and salary caps are installed. Will the NCAA be wise enough and self-limiting enough to impose salary caps? Not likely unless the opponents of salary caps ban transgendered bathrooms or fly the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia leading to the NCAA to push them just for spite.
03-01-2017 05:03 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #40
RE: University of Michigan Athletic Department Is $240 Million In Debt
(03-01-2017 04:41 PM)p23570 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 04:01 PM)panama Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 03:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The Big 10 Network and tv contracts could go bust next year. This is how schools tend to used to try to pay off their debts. When the tv money dries up? The P5 schools could go belly up with debt. That is why the whole college athletics should be reformed just in case.

Michigan and Bama will not go belly up. They dont make most of their money from TV. Now Iowa State and Wake is another matter.

And once again you are completely uninformed as usual.

It's funny watching uninformed folks like yourself group schools like ISU and Wake together even though they are different in every way possible.

Do some research on the level of fan support through donations, ticket sales, and attendance and you will quickly see that they are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

But I must say that you are quite entertaining at this point.
I know dream about me. LOL

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03-01-2017 05:40 PM
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