(03-02-2017 04:25 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  Just because he didn't work out doesn't mean you should never again try to hire a young, energetic guy who can recruit. It's still the best approach for Memphis IMO.

Tubby has done nothing to generate excitement among any one outside the die-hard group.

Absolutely.

RC blew it when he proclaimed he "had a list" and it would be a "wow" hire. If dude had just stfu and been patient, I'm sure things could have played out differently.

That being said, I still am not upset with the hire at the time. Pastner had the charisma, the charm, and the recruiting reputation. He just didn't grow and learn.

(03-02-2017 04:25 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 04:05 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 03:57 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 03:10 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 01:01 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I've learned recently that being named or considered for COY honors of some sort doesn't necessarily mean anything. Tubbs was B12 COY last year. Josh is apparently a candidate for ACC COY (some have even said national COY). And yet, Tubbs and Josh are not coveted coaches by any stretch of the means.

You can tell me all day long how great Tubbs is and read me his resume. I would have taken Steve Forbes over Tubbs without giving it a second thought.

T Bowen thought it would look great if he hired the antithesis of Josh. The average fan is smarter than that. The strategy behind hiring a guy like Josh is really the only way to go if you're a school like Memphis and want to be successful. Get a guy who is an up-and-comer. Maybe you'll strike gold, maybe you won't. Or, hire a retread like Tubbs and continue down a ho hum path that generates no hope or excitement to invigorate the program.

Memphis chose the latter.

Give it time grasshopper, 10 months.

Pastner's success at GA Tech has little to do with Pastner.

Tubby's success or failure at Memphis has little to do with Tubby.

My point is that COY awards mean jack if guys like Tubby and Pastner are winning them (or in contention). I wouldn't hire either of them if I were an AD.

Tubby isn't going to turn anything around. Memphis needs a young(er) guy who is hungry and can recruit, which will give the fans hope of a better future. I don't fault Memphis for the Pastner hire. I think it was the right hire at the time. I fault them for the deal he ended up with. But I hated the Tubby hire.

Pastner was / is young and hungry and could/ can recruit. You want him back or just 2.0?

Just because he didn't work out doesn't mean you should never again try to hire a young, energetic guy who can recruit. It's still the best approach for Memphis IMO.

Tubby has done nothing to generate excitement among any one outside the die-hard group.

Recruiting is one component, if that was the end all be all, Cal would have 10 championship's. Now I agree that Memphis's fan base wants to be fluffed, but that doesn't mean anything. Impatient, they are, Obi Wan.

10 months, Pastner wasted tremendous talent. The old saying about insanity.

(03-02-2017 04:01 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 02:46 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 01:01 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I've learned recently that being named or considered for COY honors of some sort doesn't necessarily mean anything. Tubbs was B12 COY last year. Josh is apparently a candidate for ACC COY (some have even said national COY). And yet, Tubbs and Josh are not coveted coaches by any stretch of the means.

You can tell me all day long how great Tubbs is and read me his resume. I would have taken Steve Forbes over Tubbs without giving it a second thought.

T Bowen thought it would look great if he hired the antithesis of Josh. The average fan is smarter than that. The strategy behind hiring a guy like Josh is really the only way to go if you're a school like Memphis and want to be successful. Get a guy who is an up-and-comer. Maybe you'll strike gold, maybe you won't. Or, hire a retread like Tubbs and continue down a ho hum path that generates no hope or excitement to invigorate the program.

Memphis chose the latter.

That's an old SEC fan argument about us, but it has not always been true in basketball. Football? Sure. But not hoops. We haven't historically had to reach into low D1 to hire coaches. At least not always. We funded the program as a high major. That could be changing though.

Well, let's go back as far as we can:

Pastner (Hired as a last resort)
Cal (Had fallen from grace and took the best job available at the time he wanted to get back into college coaching)
Tic (Wasn't exactly being courted by the likes of North Carolina and Kansas)
Finch (Memphis guy through and through)

That's as far back as I go. Memphis doesn't have a history of hiring guys who are in high demand. Then again, there are only a few schools who can do that (and/or hold on to them).

Cal was a huge hire - I don't care who you are.
Tic was a proven D1 head coach already.
Finch was continuity and the right hire at the time - no matter the process.
Kirk and Bartow were both proven head coaches.

Memphis has hardly ever hired an up-and-comer with no experience. Except Pastner.

(03-02-2017 04:57 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 04:01 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 02:46 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 01:01 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I've learned recently that being named or considered for COY honors of some sort doesn't necessarily mean anything. Tubbs was B12 COY last year. Josh is apparently a candidate for ACC COY (some have even said national COY). And yet, Tubbs and Josh are not coveted coaches by any stretch of the means.

You can tell me all day long how great Tubbs is and read me his resume. I would have taken Steve Forbes over Tubbs without giving it a second thought.

T Bowen thought it would look great if he hired the antithesis of Josh. The average fan is smarter than that. The strategy behind hiring a guy like Josh is really the only way to go if you're a school like Memphis and want to be successful. Get a guy who is an up-and-comer. Maybe you'll strike gold, maybe you won't. Or, hire a retread like Tubbs and continue down a ho hum path that generates no hope or excitement to invigorate the program.

Memphis chose the latter.

That's an old SEC fan argument about us, but it has not always been true in basketball. Football? Sure. But not hoops. We haven't historically had to reach into low D1 to hire coaches. At least not always. We funded the program as a high major. That could be changing though.

Well, let's go back as far as we can:

Pastner (Hired as a last resort)
Cal (Had fallen from grace and took the best job available at the time he wanted to get back into college coaching)
Tic (Wasn't exactly being courted by the likes of North Carolina and Kansas)
Finch (Memphis guy through and through)

That's as far back as I go. Memphis doesn't have a history of hiring guys who are in high demand. Then again, there are only a few schools who can do that (and/or hold on to them).

Cal was a huge hire - I don't care who you are.
Tic was a proven D1 head coach already.
Finch was continuity and the right hire at the time - no matter the process.
Kirk and Bartow were both proven head coaches.

Memphis has hardly ever hired an up-and-comer with no experience. Except Pastner.

Maybe most similar similar hire would be Moe Iba. Wait. Moe got 5* and 4* recruits.

(03-02-2017 06:12 PM)tigers1125 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 04:57 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 04:01 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 02:46 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 01:01 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I've learned recently that being named or considered for COY honors of some sort doesn't necessarily mean anything. Tubbs was B12 COY last year. Josh is apparently a candidate for ACC COY (some have even said national COY). And yet, Tubbs and Josh are not coveted coaches by any stretch of the means.

You can tell me all day long how great Tubbs is and read me his resume. I would have taken Steve Forbes over Tubbs without giving it a second thought.

T Bowen thought it would look great if he hired the antithesis of Josh. The average fan is smarter than that. The strategy behind hiring a guy like Josh is really the only way to go if you're a school like Memphis and want to be successful. Get a guy who is an up-and-comer. Maybe you'll strike gold, maybe you won't. Or, hire a retread like Tubbs and continue down a ho hum path that generates no hope or excitement to invigorate the program.

Memphis chose the latter.

That's an old SEC fan argument about us, but it has not always been true in basketball. Football? Sure. But not hoops. We haven't historically had to reach into low D1 to hire coaches. At least not always. We funded the program as a high major. That could be changing though.

Well, let's go back as far as we can:

Pastner (Hired as a last resort)
Cal (Had fallen from grace and took the best job available at the time he wanted to get back into college coaching)
Tic (Wasn't exactly being courted by the likes of North Carolina and Kansas)
Finch (Memphis guy through and through)

That's as far back as I go. Memphis doesn't have a history of hiring guys who are in high demand. Then again, there are only a few schools who can do that (and/or hold on to them).

Cal was a huge hire - I don't care who you are.
Tic was a proven D1 head coach already.
Finch was continuity and the right hire at the time - no matter the process.
Kirk and Bartow were both proven head coaches.

Memphis has hardly ever hired an up-and-comer with no experience. Except Pastner.

Maybe most similar similar hire would be Moe Iba. Wait. Moe got 5* and 4* recruits.

A lot of people forget that he got Finch and Robinson. Did they even have stars back then?

(03-02-2017 07:35 PM)VinnieVegas Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 06:12 PM)tigers1125 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 04:57 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 04:01 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 02:46 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  That's an old SEC fan argument about us, but it has not always been true in basketball. Football? Sure. But not hoops. We haven't historically had to reach into low D1 to hire coaches. At least not always. We funded the program as a high major. That could be changing though.

Well, let's go back as far as we can:

Pastner (Hired as a last resort)
Cal (Had fallen from grace and took the best job available at the time he wanted to get back into college coaching)
Tic (Wasn't exactly being courted by the likes of North Carolina and Kansas)
Finch (Memphis guy through and through)

That's as far back as I go. Memphis doesn't have a history of hiring guys who are in high demand. Then again, there are only a few schools who can do that (and/or hold on to them).

Cal was a huge hire - I don't care who you are.
Tic was a proven D1 head coach already.
Finch was continuity and the right hire at the time - no matter the process.
Kirk and Bartow were both proven head coaches.

Memphis has hardly ever hired an up-and-comer with no experience. Except Pastner.

Maybe most similar similar hire would be Moe Iba. Wait. Moe got 5* and 4* recruits.

A lot of people forget that he got Finch and Robinson. Did they even have stars back then?

Yea, they were stars and they played.