Let's say BYU joined the Big XII as the 11th member. The conference surely wouldn't go to a 10 game schedule in football so they would have to split into two divisions. I think that's where it would be tough. Would BYU join the Texas schools in a five team division? OU-Texas is the only must-have crossover. In basketball, the 20 game schedule would work.

It would be interesting to know if BYU by themselves bring enough to the table for Big XII expansion to XI.

This would allow Bedlam to be played during rivalry week where it belongs.

Also, scheduling for uneven divisions is a big question mark.

NCAA rules for a CCG say you have to play a round-robin in your division. MAthematically, that means some schools play more conference games than others. As simple as I can make the math, Division 5's teams each play 4 division games, while Division 6's teams play 5 division games. If you're aiming at an 8 game schedule, Division 5 needs 4x5= 20 cross-division games, Division 6 needs 6x3 = 18. For a 9 game schedule, Division 5 needs 5x5=25 games, Division 6 needs 6x4=24. There's no way to square this circle except by having someone(s) play 8 and someone(s) play 9, or 9 and 10.

On the other hand, the MAC and CUSA were allowed to ignore the rule when they had 13 teams. (Maybe they got a waiver, nobody who cares seems to know and nobody who knows cares enough to make a big deal of it.) Maybe an 11-team conference gets the same consideration. Maybe not.

Why would the big 12 expand to 11 and not 12? This is the big 12 so they would do something stupid like expand to 11. I think the big 12 should Add byu and Houston to go with

North: ou, osu, ku, ksu, isu, wvu
South: Texas, Texas tech, tcu, Baylor, Houston, Byu

If they want to add byu and cincy than put byu in the north and cincy and wvu in the south. I like putting the 5 old big 8 schools in a division

It can be done but my brain is not equipped currently to figure out how. I remember the NFL used to have a regular 16 team schedule with 31 teams.

(02-26-2017 11:49 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Also, scheduling for uneven divisions is a big question mark.

NCAA rules for a CCG say you have to play a round-robin in your division. MAthematically, that means some schools play more conference games than others. As simple as I can make the math, Division 5's teams each play 4 division games, while Division 6's teams play 5 division games. If you're aiming at an 8 game schedule, Division 5 needs 4x5= 20 cross-division games, Division 6 needs 6x3 = 18. For a 9 game schedule, Division 5 needs 5x5=25 games, Division 6 needs 6x4=24. There's no way to square this circle except by having someone(s) play 8 and someone(s) play 9, or 9 and 10.

On the other hand, the MAC and CUSA were allowed to ignore the rule when they had 13 teams. (Maybe they got a waiver, nobody who cares seems to know and nobody who knows cares enough to make a big deal of it.) Maybe an 11-team conference gets the same consideration. Maybe not.

A G5 conference not following that rule, perhaps only as a temporary measure (CUSA waiting for UAB football to return) is a much different deal than a P5 conference defying that rule with a change not intended to be temporary. If that happened, other P5 conferences would then feel free to also ignore the rule, for example, the ACC could have teams play only 4 or 5 of the 6 opponents in their own division to make it easier for the North Carolina teams to all play each other every year.

(02-26-2017 11:41 AM)esayem Wrote:  Let's say BYU joined the Big XII as the 11th member. The conference surely wouldn't go to a 10 game schedule in football so they would have to split into two divisions. I think that's where it would be tough. Would BYU join the Texas schools in a five team division? OU-Texas is the only must-have crossover. In basketball, the 20 game schedule would work.

It would be interesting to know if BYU by themselves bring enough to the table for Big XII expansion to XI.

This would allow Bedlam to be played during rivalry week where it belongs.

First of all, I don't think BYU is getting a Big XII bid....

But, if they did, they'd have to do the following

1) Have one division play fewer conferfence games than the other.
2) Have one division play one team twice within their division.

My guess is that they'd go with door number one.

This is not that hard, but there is a twist. if the goal is to play 9 conference games, then there must be at least 1 team each year that can play 10 conference games while everybody else plays 9 games. So you could have divisions like this.

North (6)
ISU, Kan, KSU, Ok, OSU, BYU

South (5)
Tex, TT, Bay, TCU, WV

North plays 5 games against its division and 4 games against the opposite division, except for 1 team who plays 5 games against the other division.

4 X 5 + 5 X 1 = 25

South plays 4 games against its own division and 5 against the other division

5 x 5 = 25

An alternative is to designate a team in the south division that only plays 8 games while everybody else plays 9 games.

The Big 10 played with 11 teams for many years if I remember correctly.

That would certainly be an interesting setup with 5/4 but you might be able to make it work if you figured out who wanted 9 and who wanted 8 conference games. I know OU would want 8 so we could have 2 big OOC matchups. Schools like ISU already have Iowa and UNI so they might also prefer 8. WVU would probably prefer 8 to give more regional games. Or you could just require the teams who had 8 conference games to play an extra p-5 to make up for it and only count the divisional games for who wins each division.

Truthfully everyone would probably prefer 8 as its' balanced and give the most. Doesn't the ACC let teams play games cross division that dont' count towards the conference total?

Id rather just go to 12 with BYU and UConn full members or even BYU and Hawaii football only. 2 trips to Hawaii would not be that bad for the kids.

(02-26-2017 02:08 PM)p23570 Wrote:  The Big 10 played with 11 teams for many years if I remember correctly.

No CCG, no divisions, no round-robin requirement for anything.

NCAA waived the divisional round robin every year the MAC was at 13 members.

(02-26-2017 05:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  NCAA waived the divisional round robin every year the MAC was at 13 members.

Plus the last two years for C-USA. They'd have to make the same concession to the 12.

(02-26-2017 07:44 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 05:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  NCAA waived the divisional round robin every year the MAC was at 13 members.

Plus the last two years for C-USA. They'd have to make the same concession to the 12.

No, they wouldn't. The powers of CFB care a lot about how a P5 conference determines its football champ because that team is a potential playoff team. That was apparent when the rule was tweaked last year. I doubt they are bothered so much about how a G5 conference chooses its football champ, unless and until a P5 conference decides that what the G5 conference did is now a loophole they want to exploit. If the Big 12 decided to do what the OP suggests, the P5 conferences would either just block it, or go to battle to figure out how to change the rule again, if at all.

I don't see other conference blocking that. I think they will all want more flexibility moving forward. I think the biggest thing is they all want the Big 12 to play a CCG.

(02-26-2017 02:08 PM)p23570 Wrote:  The Big 10 played with 11 teams for many years if I remember correctly.

That would certainly be an interesting setup with 5/4 but you might be able to make it work if you figured out who wanted 9 and who wanted 8 conference games. I know OU would want 8 so we could have 2 big OOC matchups. Schools like ISU already have Iowa and UNI so they might also prefer 8. WVU would probably prefer 8 to give more regional games. Or you could just require the teams who had 8 conference games to play an extra p-5 to make up for it and only count the divisional games for who wins each division.

Truthfully everyone would probably prefer 8 as its' balanced and give the most. Doesn't the ACC let teams play games cross division that dont' count towards the conference total?

Id rather just go to 12 with BYU and UConn full members or even BYU and Hawaii football only. 2 trips to Hawaii would not be that bad for the kids.

Big 10 started the CCG in 2011 when they had 12 schools. Penn St was member #11 for almost 20 years and the Big 10 was content to stay at 11 with no CCG. I grew up an Iowa fan and remember years when Iowa missed Michigan and Ohio St. One year both Iowa and Ohio St finished 8-0 in Big 10 play. No CCG and no one cared IIRC.

Cheers!