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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
My reason was pretty much what Axeme and OUVan reiterated. If you take Keene out because of CMU's poor conference record, which his bad D and high number of turnovers have contributed to, there just isn't a clear cut guy. In said scenario, I fully expect the best player on the best team to win said tie-breaker when there are 2-3 candidates without much separating them.
02-27-2017 10:34 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #22
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-27-2017 10:22 AM)OUVan Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 10:50 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 09:18 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Big Dog is going to win MAC POY and honestly I don't expect voting to be close.

players with multiple Player of the Week awards-

5- Keene, CMU
4- Hall, Kent St
3- Campbell, Ohio
3- Johnson, Akron
2- Taylor, Toledo
2- Williams, Toledo


you should recalibrate your expectations.

He shouldn't need to recalibrate. It's what the MAC media does. Isaiah Johnson is the best player on the best team. It doesn't matter that he's not the best player in the league. It's how you end up with guys like DeAndre Haynes, Romeo Travis, Al Fisher and Justin Greene winning the award. And they don't even pay attention to the West so you can eliminate Keene, Wilder and Taylor (1 of last 12 has gone to a player from the West).

So how did David Kool and David Weber and the big kid from WMU ever win MAC POY04-jawdrop04-jawdrop04-jawdrop
02-27-2017 10:54 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #23
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-27-2017 08:45 AM)axeme Wrote:  But do coaches pick the POY? I thought the media did?

Media??? picks most individual awards ... but this thread was talking All-MAC team (5 players)
02-27-2017 11:05 AM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #24
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-26-2017 10:50 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 09:18 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Big Dog is going to win MAC POY and honestly I don't expect voting to be close.

players with multiple Player of the Week awards-

5- Keene, CMU
4- Hall, Kent St
3- Campbell, Ohio
3- Johnson, Akron
2- Taylor, Toledo
2- Williams, Toledo


you should recalibrate your expectations.

And number 5 for Hall. Wilder picks up one in the West.
02-27-2017 07:10 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #25
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-27-2017 10:22 AM)OUVan Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 10:50 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 09:18 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Big Dog is going to win MAC POY and honestly I don't expect voting to be close.

players with multiple Player of the Week awards-

5- Keene, CMU
4- Hall, Kent St
3- Campbell, Ohio
3- Johnson, Akron
2- Taylor, Toledo
2- Williams, Toledo


you should recalibrate your expectations.

He shouldn't need to recalibrate. It's what the MAC media does. Isaiah Johnson is the best player on the best team. It doesn't matter that he's not the best player in the league. It's how you end up with guys like DeAndre Haynes, Romeo Travis, Al Fisher and Justin Greene winning the award. And they don't even pay attention to the West so you can eliminate Keene, Wilder and Taylor (1 of last 12 has gone to a player from the West).

Im not saying he won't win, I'm saying it wont be a landslide.
02-27-2017 07:41 PM
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DICK Offline
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Post: #26
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
I would have picked Johnson as POY last year and once again this year. Best player on the best team both years. Other guys have done as much for their teams, but he seems to come up big when it matters most, and Akron seldom loses.
02-27-2017 08:23 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder
Best player on best team? Johnson
Stuck on a team with lots of issues? JT4
Best big man statistically? Taylor
Best scorer and most popular player in the conference and will win POY? Keane
02-28-2017 10:57 AM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-28-2017 10:57 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder

Take Johnson off of Akron and I'm not sure they are even a .500 team in the MAC. Akron has a lot of good shooters, but outside of Antino and I suppose maybe Kwan nobody else can create their own shot. The attention Big Dog draws in the post is what creates shot opportunities for everyone else.

I expect Akron to take a huge step back next year as they have looked inept every time Big Dog heads to the bench for a breather.
02-28-2017 11:24 AM
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BullBoy Offline
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Post: #29
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-28-2017 11:24 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 10:57 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder

Take Johnson off of Akron and I'm not sure they are even a .500 team in the MAC. Akron has a lot of good shooters, but outside of Antino and I suppose maybe Kwan nobody else can create their own shot. The attention Big Dog draws in the post is what creates shot opportunities for everyone else.

I expect Akron to take a huge step back next year as they have looked inept every time Big Dog heads to the bench for a breather.

Can't you make that arguement for guys like Jimmy Hall and Blake Hamilton as well
02-28-2017 11:42 AM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-28-2017 11:42 AM)BullBoy Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:24 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 10:57 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder

Take Johnson off of Akron and I'm not sure they are even a .500 team in the MAC. Akron has a lot of good shooters, but outside of Antino and I suppose maybe Kwan nobody else can create their own shot. The attention Big Dog draws in the post is what creates shot opportunities for everyone else.

I expect Akron to take a huge step back next year as they have looked inept every time Big Dog heads to the bench for a breather.

Can't you make that arguement for guys like Jimmy Hall and Blake Hamilton as well

Take the nations leading rebounder and double double man off Toledo and we have 5 players with no post.
02-28-2017 11:48 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #31
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-28-2017 11:48 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:42 AM)BullBoy Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:24 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 10:57 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder

Take Johnson off of Akron and I'm not sure they are even a .500 team in the MAC. Akron has a lot of good shooters, but outside of Antino and I suppose maybe Kwan nobody else can create their own shot. The attention Big Dog draws in the post is what creates shot opportunities for everyone else.

I expect Akron to take a huge step back next year as they have looked inept every time Big Dog heads to the bench for a breather.

Can't you make that arguement for guys like Jimmy Hall and Blake Hamilton as well

Take the nations leading rebounder and double double man off Toledo and we have 5 players with no post.

A REMINDER ....

Last year Wilder was left off the first team in favor of CMU's Fowler, who was injured part of the season and certainly never 100-percent ... and by any measure Wilder had the better season ... coaches votes can be funny and tend to lean toward guys who have been in the league for awhile over first-timers ... just sayin'
02-28-2017 11:55 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #32
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-28-2017 11:48 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:42 AM)BullBoy Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:24 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 10:57 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder

Take Johnson off of Akron and I'm not sure they are even a .500 team in the MAC. Akron has a lot of good shooters, but outside of Antino and I suppose maybe Kwan nobody else can create their own shot. The attention Big Dog draws in the post is what creates shot opportunities for everyone else.

I expect Akron to take a huge step back next year as they have looked inept every time Big Dog heads to the bench for a breather.

Can't you make that arguement for guys like Jimmy Hall and Blake Hamilton as well

Take the nations leading rebounder and double double man off Toledo and we have 5 players with no post.

I think you take any of these guys off their teams and they look distinctly different ... which takes us back to what these teams look like with them ... For all that Taylor and Keene have done, those are still .500 type teams with them. ... Johnson in particular stands apart in that regard while Simmons/Hall/Wilder/Hamilton have all kept their teams viable in MAC play in terms of potential byes and (in a few cases) even potential 20-win seasons.

That's the difference in these eyes ...
02-28-2017 12:00 PM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-28-2017 11:42 AM)BullBoy Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:24 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 10:57 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder

Take Johnson off of Akron and I'm not sure they are even a .500 team in the MAC. Akron has a lot of good shooters, but outside of Antino and I suppose maybe Kwan nobody else can create their own shot. The attention Big Dog draws in the post is what creates shot opportunities for everyone else.

I expect Akron to take a huge step back next year as they have looked inept every time Big Dog heads to the bench for a breather.

Can't you make that arguement for guys like Jimmy Hall and Blake Hamilton as well

You can make that argument for several players. The difference is with Emmanuel Olojakpoke starting at C, the Zips are nowhere near sniffing the MAC regular season title. With Big Dog they ran away with the conference regular season title (leading by as many as 5 games at 1 point). With Hall, Hamilton, and Taylor Buffalo, Kent, and Toledo are still only 8-8 & 9-7 teams.
02-28-2017 12:06 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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Post: #34
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-28-2017 12:06 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:42 AM)BullBoy Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:24 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 10:57 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder

Take Johnson off of Akron and I'm not sure they are even a .500 team in the MAC. Akron has a lot of good shooters, but outside of Antino and I suppose maybe Kwan nobody else can create their own shot. The attention Big Dog draws in the post is what creates shot opportunities for everyone else.

I expect Akron to take a huge step back next year as they have looked inept every time Big Dog heads to the bench for a breather.

Can't you make that arguement for guys like Jimmy Hall and Blake Hamilton as well

You can make that argument for several players. The difference is with Emmanuel Olojakpoke starting at C, the Zips are nowhere near sniffing the MAC regular season title. With Big Dog they ran away with the conference regular season title (leading by as many as 5 games at 1 point). With Hall, Hamilton, and Taylor Buffalo, Kent, and Toledo are still only 8-8 & 9-7 teams.

Take away 13 rebounds, a 55% shooter, scoring 20 a game and that 8-8 team is 2-14. And I agree that being on a good team helps... Akron is a team that 5 points in the other direction fastly changes their record. They are inches from being 8-8 as well. Its a weird year... this isn't Gonzaga vs. the rest of that league. Its a super close league. Wilder has been way clutch lately! What does Big dog do that other post players arent?? Some other guys have better stats. IMO because Akron has a better team to help him, but also take stats away from him. They are more well rounded as a team than most. For that reason, give it to the most impactful, or nations leading scorer.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2017 12:21 PM by UofToledoFans.)
02-28-2017 12:14 PM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-28-2017 12:14 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 12:06 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:42 AM)BullBoy Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:24 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 10:57 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder

Take Johnson off of Akron and I'm not sure they are even a .500 team in the MAC. Akron has a lot of good shooters, but outside of Antino and I suppose maybe Kwan nobody else can create their own shot. The attention Big Dog draws in the post is what creates shot opportunities for everyone else.

I expect Akron to take a huge step back next year as they have looked inept every time Big Dog heads to the bench for a breather.

Can't you make that arguement for guys like Jimmy Hall and Blake Hamilton as well

You can make that argument for several players. The difference is with Emmanuel Olojakpoke starting at C, the Zips are nowhere near sniffing the MAC regular season title. With Big Dog they ran away with the conference regular season title (leading by as many as 5 games at 1 point). With Hall, Hamilton, and Taylor Buffalo, Kent, and Toledo are still only 8-8 & 9-7 teams.

Take away 13 rebounds, a 55% shooter, scoring 20 a game and that 8-8 team is 2-14.

Well for starters he's averaging 15.6 points, not 20 and according to the MAC official stat page he's shooting something below .516 in conference play as he didn't even make the top 15 in fg%. Even if what you say is the case, under said scenario Toledo would still have to play their way into Cleveland at 8-8 or 2-14. Akron won the conference with Big Dog and they would in my estimation be playing their way into Cleveland without him. I'd say that's a much bigger difference.

http://www.mac-sports.com/custompages/st...NFONLY.HTM
02-28-2017 12:39 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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Post: #36
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
Before The weekend games. My mistake on Taylors points.

In MAC play:
POINTS
Keene 28.9
Rayson 23.7
Wilder 21.3
Williams 19.6
Hall 18.8
Johnson 18.1
Simmons 18
Hamilton 17.1

REBOUNDS
Taylor 13.2
Thompson 10.6
Hall 9.6
Maric 9.1
Moses 9.0
Wiggins 8.8
Cheatham 8.7
Johnson 8.1

FG%
Kadiri 62.7
Johnson 59.9
Moses 58.6
Thompson 57.9
Dugan 56.5

ASSISTS
Simmons 6.2
Persons 5.1
Hamilton 5
Weathers 4.7
Keene 4.7
Bond 4.1
Wilder 4.1

BLOCKS
Meyer 1.5
Scott 1.3
Moses 1.3
Weathers 1.3
Nobles 1.1
Hall 1

Assist/TO ratio
Robotham 2.8
Wilder 2.3
Bond 2.3
Sanford 2.1
Jackson 1.7
Persons 1.7
Simmons 1.6

MINUTES
Rayson 38.5
Keene 37.8
Sanford 36.7
Simmons 36.6
Williams 36.5
Lauf 36.1

3's
Keene and Rayson have the most but Keene isnt shooting 40%.
02-28-2017 02:23 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #37
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-28-2017 11:24 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 10:57 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder

Take Johnson off of Akron and I'm not sure they are even a .500 team in the MAC. Akron has a lot of good shooters, but outside of Antino and I suppose maybe Kwan nobody else can create their own shot. The attention Big Dog draws in the post is what creates shot opportunities for everyone else.

I expect Akron to take a huge step back next year as they have looked inept every time Big Dog heads to the bench for a breather.

that is wayyy overstating the impact of Big Chubbs who spends half the game either on the bench or bent over huffing and puffing on the court.
02-28-2017 06:50 PM
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kreed5120 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-28-2017 06:50 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:24 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 10:57 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder

Take Johnson off of Akron and I'm not sure they are even a .500 team in the MAC. Akron has a lot of good shooters, but outside of Antino and I suppose maybe Kwan nobody else can create their own shot. The attention Big Dog draws in the post is what creates shot opportunities for everyone else.

I expect Akron to take a huge step back next year as they have looked inept every time Big Dog heads to the bench for a breather.

that is wayyy overstating the impact of Big Chubbs who spends half the game either on the bench or bent over huffing and puffing on the court.

Considering all but 3-4 of Akron's conference wins have been by single digits, I don't find it farfetched.
02-28-2017 06:54 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #39
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
KenPom's All-MAC team ranked in order:

1. Johnson
2. Hall
3. Hamilton
4. Wilder
5. Keane
03-05-2017 05:11 PM
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Roberto Gato Offline
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Post: #40
RE: THE LAST SPOT ....
(02-28-2017 06:54 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 06:50 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 11:24 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 10:57 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Most relevent to a teams success? Wilder

Take Johnson off of Akron and I'm not sure they are even a .500 team in the MAC. Akron has a lot of good shooters, but outside of Antino and I suppose maybe Kwan nobody else can create their own shot. The attention Big Dog draws in the post is what creates shot opportunities for everyone else.

I expect Akron to take a huge step back next year as they have looked inept every time Big Dog heads to the bench for a breather.

that is wayyy overstating the impact of Big Chubbs who spends half the game either on the bench or bent over huffing and puffing on the court.

Considering all but 3-4 of Akron's conference wins have been by single digits, I don't find it farfetched.

Yes, but Dambrot and his sorcerer's ways still always manage to put a top MAC team on the floor.
03-05-2017 05:18 PM
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