in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

I'll answer with no. And with no hormones.

(02-25-2017 12:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

I think, sans PEDS, that anyone should be able to compete in mens sports if they can hack it. But womens sports were carved out, in part, because men are bigger, faster, and stronger, than the fairer sex.

Agree with Bull's statement.... though I hadn't really thought about it until then.

I mean, let's be honest... How would Caitlyn Jenner have done in the heptathlon if she'd had her surgery sooner? WOuld that have been fair to the women?

I think we're either going to have to have 'special' categories for transgendered (at least female to male) or it could be the end of things like title IX, women's sports... OR anything but paid sports altogether.

Never mine. I thought Brittney Griner was a man.

This is going to end up in court.

(02-25-2017 10:43 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 12:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

I think, sans PEDS, that anyone should be able to compete in mens sports if they can hack it. But womens sports were carved out, in part, because men are bigger, faster, and stronger, than the fairer sex.

SEXIST

In New York State, young ladies are allowed to participate in men's high school sports providing there is no comparable ladies team and they have the ability to compete.

In Rochester, there are at least a half dozen ladies playing men's varsity hockey. Three of them have already committed to Div 1 woman's programs (Cornell, Princeton and Penn State).

So it does happen.

Transgender boy 2 wins away from girls state wrestling title

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/t...e-45731165

(02-25-2017 10:43 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 12:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

I think, sans PEDS, that anyone should be able to compete in mens sports if they can hack it. But womens sports were carved out, in part, because men are bigger, faster, and stronger, than the fairer sex.

I agree with this. If a woman can compete on a level playing field with no concessions in the man's game she should be able to compete with men. But not the reverse with men competing in women's sports because they have an inherent physical advantage.

For Transgenders,
If born a man (genetically an XY), even after hormone transition to a woman that person still carries the build and hormone makeup from being a man so they should not be able to compete in women's sports.
If born a woman (genetically XX) and can compete in the man's game with no concessions, that person should be able to compete in the man's competition.

True hermaphrodites create a bigger conundrum as they are biologically/genetically both. I think in a proven example of hermaphroditism, the person should be able to compete in whichever male or female they ID with.

Maybe in addition to the Olympic Games and the X Games, we need to have the Gay Games with no rules as to who competes in what. And while it sounds like a joke I'm really not kidding. With 56-57 different recognized genders how in the world can we now have the Olympics without someone complaining that they can't compete in their preferred category.

(02-25-2017 10:43 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 12:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

I think, sans PEDS, that anyone should be able to compete in mens sports if they can hack it. But womens sports were carved out, in part, because men are bigger, faster, and stronger, than the fairer sex.

I think this is correct. I think, personally, the inclusion of the MtF trans wrestler is allowed to exist at the expense of the other female wrestlers because of a clear advantage in physiology which exists whether some of the more extreme people on the left would like to admit it or not.

The only issue I see with simply stating that women can join men, but men can't join women is it creates another scenario where women have more advantage and inclusion than men (think divorce law, custody, domestic violence bias, etc.). It's only a minor point, but I don't want to see men excluded from competition where physicality isn't the primary trait (like, for example, a womens only gaming competition, or other events of skill rather than prowess)

TL;DR it should be taken on a case by case basis, but yes, your solution is more than adequate

(02-25-2017 10:43 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 12:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

I think, sans PEDS, that anyone should be able to compete in mens sports if they can hack it. But womens sports were carved out, in part, because men are bigger, faster, and stronger, than the fairer sex.

I can live with this stance.

(02-26-2017 09:51 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:43 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 12:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

I think, sans PEDS, that anyone should be able to compete in mens sports if they can hack it. But womens sports were carved out, in part, because men are bigger, faster, and stronger, than the fairer sex.

I agree with this. If a woman can compete on a level playing field with no concessions in the man's game she should be able to compete with men. But not the reverse with men competing in women's sports because they have an inherent physical advantage.

For Transgenders,
If born a man (genetically an XY), even after hormone transition to a woman that person still carries the build and hormone makeup from being a man so they should not be able to compete in women's sports.
If born a woman (genetically XX) and can compete in the man's game with no concessions, that person should be able to compete in the man's competition.

True hermaphrodites create a bigger conundrum as they are biologically/genetically both. I think in a proven example of hermaphroditism, the person should be able to compete in whichever male or female they ID with.

Maybe in addition to the Olympic Games and the X Games, we need to have the Gay Games with no rules as to who competes in what. And while it sounds like a joke I'm really not kidding. With 56-57 different recognized genders how in the world can we now have the Olympics without someone complaining that they can't compete in their preferred category.

So were going to spend 300 million bucks a year on LGBT high school sports like we do for the sports you guys argue Trans kids can't participate in (or at least can't participate while being Trans - which is the same thing as not allowing them to participate).

(02-26-2017 10:10 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:43 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 12:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

I think, sans PEDS, that anyone should be able to compete in mens sports if they can hack it. But womens sports were carved out, in part, because men are bigger, faster, and stronger, than the fairer sex.

I can live with this stance.

Easy for you.. You aren't being denied the ability to play in high school.

(02-26-2017 10:24 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:51 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:43 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 12:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

I think, sans PEDS, that anyone should be able to compete in mens sports if they can hack it. But womens sports were carved out, in part, because men are bigger, faster, and stronger, than the fairer sex.

I agree with this. If a woman can compete on a level playing field with no concessions in the man's game she should be able to compete with men. But not the reverse with men competing in women's sports because they have an inherent physical advantage.

For Transgenders,
If born a man (genetically an XY), even after hormone transition to a woman that person still carries the build and hormone makeup from being a man so they should not be able to compete in women's sports.
If born a woman (genetically XX) and can compete in the man's game with no concessions, that person should be able to compete in the man's competition.

True hermaphrodites create a bigger conundrum as they are biologically/genetically both. I think in a proven example of hermaphroditism, the person should be able to compete in whichever male or female they ID with.

Maybe in addition to the Olympic Games and the X Games, we need to have the Gay Games with no rules as to who competes in what. And while it sounds like a joke I'm really not kidding. With 56-57 different recognized genders how in the world can we now have the Olympics without someone complaining that they can't compete in their preferred category.

So were going to spend 300 million bucks a year on LGBT high school sports like we do for the sports you guys argue Trans kids can't participate in (or at least can't participate while being Trans - which is the same thing as not allowing them to participate).

No one is saying that trans high school kids can't participate but they have to participate based on their genetic makeup unaltered by hormones. It's not trying to be unfair to the transgendered it is a case of not allowing an unfair advantage in athletic competition.

A biological male competing against girls because he feels like he wants to gender ID with girls isn't fair competition to the other girls. Same with a biological girl transitioning to being a male taking testosterone as evidenced by the wrestler in Texas. That girl transitioning to a man with hormones should compete as a boy or should not be allowed to compete.

If they choose to begin the hormonal process to change while in high school (which would be a mistake since their brains aren't fully developed and they should wait until their brains are fully matured before making such a drastic change) in choosing to do so by making that choice they might be eliminating the option to not participate in sports for their high school if their choosing requires hormonal therapy.

(02-26-2017 10:37 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 10:24 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 09:51 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:43 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 12:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

I think, sans PEDS, that anyone should be able to compete in mens sports if they can hack it. But womens sports were carved out, in part, because men are bigger, faster, and stronger, than the fairer sex.

I agree with this. If a woman can compete on a level playing field with no concessions in the man's game she should be able to compete with men. But not the reverse with men competing in women's sports because they have an inherent physical advantage.

For Transgenders,
If born a man (genetically an XY), even after hormone transition to a woman that person still carries the build and hormone makeup from being a man so they should not be able to compete in women's sports.
If born a woman (genetically XX) and can compete in the man's game with no concessions, that person should be able to compete in the man's competition.

True hermaphrodites create a bigger conundrum as they are biologically/genetically both. I think in a proven example of hermaphroditism, the person should be able to compete in whichever male or female they ID with.

Maybe in addition to the Olympic Games and the X Games, we need to have the Gay Games with no rules as to who competes in what. And while it sounds like a joke I'm really not kidding. With 56-57 different recognized genders how in the world can we now have the Olympics without someone complaining that they can't compete in their preferred category.

So were going to spend 300 million bucks a year on LGBT high school sports like we do for the sports you guys argue Trans kids can't participate in (or at least can't participate while being Trans - which is the same thing as not allowing them to participate).

No one is saying that trans high school kids can't participate but they have to participate based on their genetic makeup unaltered by hormones. It's not trying to be unfair to the transgendered it is a case of not allowing an unfair advantage in athletic competition.

A biological male competing against girls because he feels like he wants to gender ID with girls isn't fair competition to the other girls. Same with a biological girl transitioning to being a male taking testosterone as evidenced by the wrestler in Texas. That girl transitioning to a man with hormones should compete as a boy or should not be allowed to compete.

If they choose to begin the hormonal process to change while in high school (which would be a mistake since their brains aren't fully developed and they should wait until their brains are fully matured before making such a drastic change) in choosing to do so by making that choice they might be eliminating the option to not participate in sports for their high school if their choosing requires hormonal therapy.

So if they are Trans...they can't participate in sports that are funded by taxpayers, right?

Telling people they must not be Trans to participate, or not be VISIBLE to participate is the same as 'you can't participate'.

that isn't what she said at all Tom.

(02-26-2017 11:12 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  that isn't what she said at all Tom.

Effectively, this is appalling. First the UIL decided to not recognize Transgendered persons, by insisting that they compete using their birth certificate. This was done in a politically charged environment where Trans persons are subjected to extreme abuse and demonization.

Then, when a Trans kid decides to compete, people call for him to not be allowed to compete or to be subjected to ridiculous constraints (an effective ban on Trans persons).

---

The solution is to, of course, recognize Trans persons as the gender they present. And to stop the demonization and misgendering. But Texas won't do that. Good for Mack, and congrats to him on his state championship.

---

Again, spending billions on high school sports while banning Trans kids from participating is wrong.

(02-26-2017 10:25 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Easy for you.. You aren't being denied the ability to play in high school.

I was. I wanted to do Track in high school but my school only had a girls track team.

What did I do... I put my big boy pants on and realized that I don't get everything I want in life.

(02-26-2017 11:37 AM)q5sys Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 10:25 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Easy for you.. You aren't being denied the ability to play in high school.

I was. I wanted to do Track in high school but my school only had a girls track team.

What did I do... I put my big boy pants on and realized that I don't get everything I want in life.

But you could compete in other sports. What is being argued for here is that the cool sports (the physical ones) are to be barred to all Trans kids who actually are Trans.

Trans kids are repeatedly humiliated by schools by forcing them to use the 'question mark' restroom, banned from sports participation, bullied and misgendered by teachers, and even banned from participating in classroom activities.

Its not just one sport for the Trans kids, its ALL sports.

This is part of the demands of some to keep Trans kids marginalized, hidden, and abused.