By Tom's logic to hell with everyone else let's focus on this one kid who decided to transition. Couldn't wait until the season was over or began the transition earlier. Let's worry about it and end sports because one kid is confused.

(02-25-2017 10:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:49 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:38 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:26 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:16 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  We're not talking about bullying. If it is true than it should be condemned.

What we're talking about here is a desire by many to BAR this child from competing, period.

I actually have no problem with allowing her to wrestle in the male division ...but...by taking male hormones she essentially caused her own problem. This is another in a long list of "actions have consequences" items. If wrestling was so important? Why jeopardize that now?

How would you feel if a school made you wear a dress all day in high school, as a condition of participation? You'd find that ridiculous and onerous.

Why should Trans kids have extra and ridiculous bars to participation?

----

We all know why he is competing with girls. Because the state of Texas would LOSE a lawsuit if they tried to ban him from competing. So this is what you'll get in return.

My kids are forced to wear a uniform at school. Not taking male hormones before an athletic competition is forcing uniformity in the competition.

Quote:Or perhaps, they can just get rid of all high school sports instead.

Sports imparts self-confidence, self-respect, teamwork and leadership.

So I'm sure the left will get around to trying to end sports at some point.

And Trans persons are to be exculded from sports....
And I'll bet if a male student has some medical condition requiring testosterone in levels equal to or lower than that naturally occuring in male students...that they'd be allowed to compete with a medical clearance.

I suppose so...The same as a female wrestler that might have some hormone issue. You keep saying that Trans people are being excluded. The fact is...They are excluding people that are taking hormone therapy from competing in a sport in which is highly gender specific and highly physical in nature. It completely negates the essence of the sport to mix females and males. We are not talking about shooting sports or bowling,golf or even tennis... where the differences between physical nature can be offset by practice and skill. We are talking about a combat sport here. That needs to be addressed in this issue. Regardless of how much someone might think that simply taking male hormones makes them male? It doesn't..and the differences in bone structure, strength and size is obvious in grappling,martial arts and pugilistic sports. It is in fact dangerous to mix these genders in these competitions and why this is wrong.

(02-25-2017 11:18 AM)gdunn Wrote:  By Tom's logic to hell with everyone else let's focus on this one kid who decided to transition. Couldn't wait until the season was over or began the transition earlier. Let's worry about it and end sports because one kid is confused.

Actually, just let him compete with the males. No one would be put out that way.

Banning Trans persons from participation isn't the answer. Basically hiding that person in some dark corner somewhere where they'll be marginalized and barred from taxpayer benefits will never be acceptable.

(02-25-2017 11:13 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:11 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:50 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:47 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:34 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Exactly, some appear to agree that Trans people should be barred from existing. Don't let the Trans kids play sports. Don't let them go to the restroom. Misgender them. Block them from participation. That won't carry a stigma at all.

How about this, remove every dime of high school sporting funding, because only some kids can participate.

She made a choice to take male hormones. No one forced her to do that. She could have continued to wrestle as a Trans person. No one was preventing her from doing so. Her gender issues evidently took a higher priority in her life than wrestling. Now everyone else in the wrestling community has to change to accommodate her? I honestly see this as disrespect for the sport she loves and an act of selfishness.

If you can't take hormones, you can't transition. Why don't you live as a girl for 2 or 3 extra years so you can play sports? Ridiculous argument. Of course the correct response from UIL would have been to place the boy in the boys wrestling division, where his testosterone would be equal to that of the boys.

She made a choice Tom. Was she not wrestling as young woman before that choice? Why should the young men be forced to wrestle with young women? No amount of hormones changes the physical differences between them.

Again, you are arguing for a blanket ban on Trans kids participating in the benefits of taxpayer supported sports.

Basically, you appear to advocate for the banning of Trans persons from taxpayer benefits, and to basically bar them from fully participating in life.

No..Im talking about banning men and women from engaging in combat sports against each other. THIS is the real issue that you refuse to consider.

(02-25-2017 11:29 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:49 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:38 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:26 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I actually have no problem with allowing her to wrestle in the male division ...but...by taking male hormones she essentially caused her own problem. This is another in a long list of "actions have consequences" items. If wrestling was so important? Why jeopardize that now?

How would you feel if a school made you wear a dress all day in high school, as a condition of participation? You'd find that ridiculous and onerous.

Why should Trans kids have extra and ridiculous bars to participation?

----

We all know why he is competing with girls. Because the state of Texas would LOSE a lawsuit if they tried to ban him from competing. So this is what you'll get in return.

My kids are forced to wear a uniform at school. Not taking male hormones before an athletic competition is forcing uniformity in the competition.

Quote:Or perhaps, they can just get rid of all high school sports instead.

Sports imparts self-confidence, self-respect, teamwork and leadership.

So I'm sure the left will get around to trying to end sports at some point.

And Trans persons are to be exculded from sports....
And I'll bet if a male student has some medical condition requiring testosterone in levels equal to or lower than that naturally occuring in male students...that they'd be allowed to compete with a medical clearance.

I suppose so...The same as a female wrestler that might have some hormone issue. You keep saying that Trans people are being excluded. The fact is...They are excluding people that are taking hormone therapy from competing in a sport in which is highly gender specific and highly physical in nature. It completely negates the essence of the sport to mix females and males. We are not talking about shooting sports or bowling,golf or even tennis... where the differences between physical nature can be offset by practice and skill. We are talking about a combat sport here. That needs to be addressed in this issue. Regardless of how much someone might think that simply taking male hormones makes them male? It doesn't..and the differences in bone structure, strength and size is obvious in grappling,martial arts and pugilistic sports. It is in fact dangerous to mix these genders in these competitions and why this is wrong.

Oh come on, if we were really concerned about safety we'd cancel football.

Look, you're just advocating banning Trans people from the benefits of sports. That isn't going to fly anymore, Trump or no Trump. Or telling a Trans man, you can't really compete in masculine sports. Actually the UIL isn't even allowing that.

The UIL decided to play hardball with Mack. They basically forced him to wrestle females in an attempt to keep the sport and try to bar him from participating. He called their bluff and good for him.

--

Basically, this would have been a non-issue if they had just allowed him to participate with the boys.

(02-25-2017 11:29 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:18 AM)gdunn Wrote:  By Tom's logic to hell with everyone else let's focus on this one kid who decided to transition. Couldn't wait until the season was over or began the transition earlier. Let's worry about it and end sports because one kid is confused.

Actually, just let him compete with the males. No one would be put out that way.

Banning Trans persons from participation isn't the answer. Basically hiding that person in some dark corner somewhere where they'll be marginalized and barred from taxpayer benefits will never be acceptable.

After thinking about this from the aspect of a combat sport?...No. It is not fair to the men she would be forced to grapple with.

(02-25-2017 11:31 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:13 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:11 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:50 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:47 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  She made a choice to take male hormones. No one forced her to do that. She could have continued to wrestle as a Trans person. No one was preventing her from doing so. Her gender issues evidently took a higher priority in her life than wrestling. Now everyone else in the wrestling community has to change to accommodate her? I honestly see this as disrespect for the sport she loves and an act of selfishness.

If you can't take hormones, you can't transition. Why don't you live as a girl for 2 or 3 extra years so you can play sports? Ridiculous argument. Of course the correct response from UIL would have been to place the boy in the boys wrestling division, where his testosterone would be equal to that of the boys.

She made a choice Tom. Was she not wrestling as young woman before that choice? Why should the young men be forced to wrestle with young women? No amount of hormones changes the physical differences between them.

Again, you are arguing for a blanket ban on Trans kids participating in the benefits of taxpayer supported sports.

Basically, you appear to advocate for the banning of Trans persons from taxpayer benefits, and to basically bar them from fully participating in life.

No..Im talking about banning men and women from engaging in combat sports against each other. THIS is the real issue that you refuse to consider.

Yea, the LGBT's should be banned from all the 'cool' sports, right? Only allow them to do interpretive dance I suppose? No marginalization there at all..

(02-25-2017 11:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:29 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:49 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:38 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  How would you feel if a school made you wear a dress all day in high school, as a condition of participation? You'd find that ridiculous and onerous.

Why should Trans kids have extra and ridiculous bars to participation?

----

We all know why he is competing with girls. Because the state of Texas would LOSE a lawsuit if they tried to ban him from competing. So this is what you'll get in return.

My kids are forced to wear a uniform at school. Not taking male hormones before an athletic competition is forcing uniformity in the competition.

Quote:Or perhaps, they can just get rid of all high school sports instead.

Sports imparts self-confidence, self-respect, teamwork and leadership.

So I'm sure the left will get around to trying to end sports at some point.

And Trans persons are to be exculded from sports....
And I'll bet if a male student has some medical condition requiring testosterone in levels equal to or lower than that naturally occuring in male students...that they'd be allowed to compete with a medical clearance.

I suppose so...The same as a female wrestler that might have some hormone issue. You keep saying that Trans people are being excluded. The fact is...They are excluding people that are taking hormone therapy from competing in a sport in which is highly gender specific and highly physical in nature. It completely negates the essence of the sport to mix females and males. We are not talking about shooting sports or bowling,golf or even tennis... where the differences between physical nature can be offset by practice and skill. We are talking about a combat sport here. That needs to be addressed in this issue. Regardless of how much someone might think that simply taking male hormones makes them male? It doesn't..and the differences in bone structure, strength and size is obvious in grappling,martial arts and pugilistic sports. It is in fact dangerous to mix these genders in these competitions and why this is wrong.

Oh come on, if we were really concerned about safety we'd cancel football.

Look, you're just advocating banning Trans people from the benefits of sports. That isn't going to fly anymore, Trump or no Trump. Or telling a Trans man, you can't really compete in masculine sports. Actually the UIL isn't even allowing that.

The UIL decided to play hardball with Mack. They basically forced him to wrestle females in an attempt to keep the sport and try to bar him from participating. He called their bluff and good for him.

--

Basically, this would have been a non-issue if they had just allowed him to participate with the boys.

Not so... if you had to be one of the men forced to grapple with this woman. There will always be an issue. It can not be just wished away Tom. Men and women are physically different. Nothing can change that.

(02-25-2017 11:35 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:31 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:13 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:11 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:50 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  If you can't take hormones, you can't transition. Why don't you live as a girl for 2 or 3 extra years so you can play sports? Ridiculous argument. Of course the correct response from UIL would have been to place the boy in the boys wrestling division, where his testosterone would be equal to that of the boys.

She made a choice Tom. Was she not wrestling as young woman before that choice? Why should the young men be forced to wrestle with young women? No amount of hormones changes the physical differences between them.

Again, you are arguing for a blanket ban on Trans kids participating in the benefits of taxpayer supported sports.

Basically, you appear to advocate for the banning of Trans persons from taxpayer benefits, and to basically bar them from fully participating in life.

No..Im talking about banning men and women from engaging in combat sports against each other. THIS is the real issue that you refuse to consider.

Yea, the LGBT's should be banned from all the 'cool' sports, right? Only allow them to do interpretive dance I suppose? No marginalization there at all..

Nope...Just combat sports and the reason is purely logical and reasonable. The "coolness" of it is irrelevant. I even have no problem with a woman on the HS football team. There is a difference between a contact sport and combat sport.

(02-25-2017 11:38 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:29 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:49 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  My kids are forced to wear a uniform at school. Not taking male hormones before an athletic competition is forcing uniformity in the competition.


Sports imparts self-confidence, self-respect, teamwork and leadership.

So I'm sure the left will get around to trying to end sports at some point.

And Trans persons are to be exculded from sports....
And I'll bet if a male student has some medical condition requiring testosterone in levels equal to or lower than that naturally occuring in male students...that they'd be allowed to compete with a medical clearance.

I suppose so...The same as a female wrestler that might have some hormone issue. You keep saying that Trans people are being excluded. The fact is...They are excluding people that are taking hormone therapy from competing in a sport in which is highly gender specific and highly physical in nature. It completely negates the essence of the sport to mix females and males. We are not talking about shooting sports or bowling,golf or even tennis... where the differences between physical nature can be offset by practice and skill. We are talking about a combat sport here. That needs to be addressed in this issue. Regardless of how much someone might think that simply taking male hormones makes them male? It doesn't..and the differences in bone structure, strength and size is obvious in grappling,martial arts and pugilistic sports. It is in fact dangerous to mix these genders in these competitions and why this is wrong.

Oh come on, if we were really concerned about safety we'd cancel football.

Look, you're just advocating banning Trans people from the benefits of sports. That isn't going to fly anymore, Trump or no Trump. Or telling a Trans man, you can't really compete in masculine sports. Actually the UIL isn't even allowing that.

The UIL decided to play hardball with Mack. They basically forced him to wrestle females in an attempt to keep the sport and try to bar him from participating. He called their bluff and good for him.

--

Basically, this would have been a non-issue if they had just allowed him to participate with the boys.

Not so... if you had to be one of the men forced to grapple with this woman. There will always be an issue. It can not be just wished away Tom. Men and women are physically different. Nothing can change that.

So, basically throw the Trans kid in a dark corner somewhere, make him or her use the 'question mark' restroom, have Texas spend 300 million bucks on sports a year and then ban them from participating in their benefits, etc.

How about this...just ban taxpayer funding (including bonds) on any high school sports. That way, they'll be no benefit for Cisgendered kids unavailable to Trans kids. That way, no one is excluded. If you don't want that to happen, then just let him compete against males.

(02-25-2017 11:42 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:35 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:31 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:13 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:11 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  She made a choice Tom. Was she not wrestling as young woman before that choice? Why should the young men be forced to wrestle with young women? No amount of hormones changes the physical differences between them.

Again, you are arguing for a blanket ban on Trans kids participating in the benefits of taxpayer supported sports.

Basically, you appear to advocate for the banning of Trans persons from taxpayer benefits, and to basically bar them from fully participating in life.

No..Im talking about banning men and women from engaging in combat sports against each other. THIS is the real issue that you refuse to consider.

Yea, the LGBT's should be banned from all the 'cool' sports, right? Only allow them to do interpretive dance I suppose? No marginalization there at all..

Nope...Just combat sports and the reason is purely logical and reasonable. The "coolness" of it is irrelevant.

Its not reasonable. Its just an attempt to ban Trans kids from taxpayer funded sports.

The coolness of it is HIGHLY relevant. Especially to a marginalized kid.

I think I've mentioned before that wrestling is my favourite sport. Before rugby for me, there was wrestling.

Tom, I've wrestled against a legally blind kid. I've coached and wrestled girls. I've seen Anthony Robles win an NCAA championship with 1 leg. In a tournament you're going to see trans kids, amputees, kids with Down's, etc.

In most states girls wrestle in the same tournaments as the boys.

If there's one thing you can't call wrestling ANYWHERE, it's non-inclusive.

But they do have rules and if they separate the boys and girls tournaments, it's because there are enough girls out there that they can put them where they do have a chance to get a championship without going in severely disadvantaged. You can't let a transperson wrestle in the girls tournament if they are on hormones. They are PEDs and that puts every other girl at the disadvantage and, while wrestling is inclusive, it's also fair. You can't let them in the girl's tournament.

The article suggests that Texas has a rule that you have to compete at the gender on your birth certificate. I think she should absolutely be able to wrestle in the boys tournament.

(02-25-2017 11:43 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:38 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:29 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 10:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And Trans persons are to be exculded from sports....
And I'll bet if a male student has some medical condition requiring testosterone in levels equal to or lower than that naturally occuring in male students...that they'd be allowed to compete with a medical clearance.

I suppose so...The same as a female wrestler that might have some hormone issue. You keep saying that Trans people are being excluded. The fact is...They are excluding people that are taking hormone therapy from competing in a sport in which is highly gender specific and highly physical in nature. It completely negates the essence of the sport to mix females and males. We are not talking about shooting sports or bowling,golf or even tennis... where the differences between physical nature can be offset by practice and skill. We are talking about a combat sport here. That needs to be addressed in this issue. Regardless of how much someone might think that simply taking male hormones makes them male? It doesn't..and the differences in bone structure, strength and size is obvious in grappling,martial arts and pugilistic sports. It is in fact dangerous to mix these genders in these competitions and why this is wrong.

Oh come on, if we were really concerned about safety we'd cancel football.

Look, you're just advocating banning Trans people from the benefits of sports. That isn't going to fly anymore, Trump or no Trump. Or telling a Trans man, you can't really compete in masculine sports. Actually the UIL isn't even allowing that.

The UIL decided to play hardball with Mack. They basically forced him to wrestle females in an attempt to keep the sport and try to bar him from participating. He called their bluff and good for him.

--

Basically, this would have been a non-issue if they had just allowed him to participate with the boys.

Not so... if you had to be one of the men forced to grapple with this woman. There will always be an issue. It can not be just wished away Tom. Men and women are physically different. Nothing can change that.

So, basically throw the Trans kid in a dark corner somewhere, make him or her use the 'question mark' restroom, have Texas spend 300 million bucks on sports a year and then ban them from participating in their benefits, etc.

How about this...just ban taxpayer funding (including bonds) on any high school sports. That way, they'll be no benefit for Cisgendered kids unavailable to Trans kids. That way, no one is excluded. If you don't want that to happen, then just let him compete against males.

Nope...Just don't take hormones and compete in the gender you were assigned at birth. Problem solved. Transition afterwards.

You actually don't care about the safety of this woman while grappling men. It is ALL about an agenda with you Tom. If she got her arm broken or even more seriously injured by male grappler on the mat?...You could care less as long as you get to cheerlead for your LGBT agenda.

(02-25-2017 11:50 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I think I've mentioned before that wrestling is my favourite sport. Before rugby for me, there was wrestling.

Tom, I've wrestled against a legally blind kid. I've coached and wrestled girls. I've seen Anthony Robles win an NCAA championship with 1 leg. In a tournament you're going to see trans kids, amputees, kids with Down's, etc.

In most states girls wrestle in the same tournaments as the boys.

If there's one thing you can't call wrestling ANYWHERE, it's non-inclusive.

But they do have rules and if they separate the boys and girls tournaments, it's because there are enough girls out there that they can put them where they do have a chance to get a championship without going in severely disadvantaged. You can't let a transperson wrestle in the girls tournament if they are on hormones. They are PEDs and that puts every other girl at the disadvantage and, while wrestling is inclusive, it's also fair. You can't let them in the girl's tournament.

The article suggests that Texas has a rule that you have to compete at the gender on your birth certificate. I think she should absolutely be able to wrestle in the boys tournament.

Mad...We are talking about a 17 year old young woman being allowed to grapple with 17 year old young men. No amount of hormones can separate the physical differences between them. There is a reason they are separated as they grow older. Men are simply far more physically gifted. Nothing can change that.

Why should the men be FORCED to grapple with women? You know when that happens the sport becomes a joke and the integrity of the sport is totally compromised. This is silly.

(02-25-2017 11:53 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:43 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:38 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:29 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I suppose so...The same as a female wrestler that might have some hormone issue. You keep saying that Trans people are being excluded. The fact is...They are excluding people that are taking hormone therapy from competing in a sport in which is highly gender specific and highly physical in nature. It completely negates the essence of the sport to mix females and males. We are not talking about shooting sports or bowling,golf or even tennis... where the differences between physical nature can be offset by practice and skill. We are talking about a combat sport here. That needs to be addressed in this issue. Regardless of how much someone might think that simply taking male hormones makes them male? It doesn't..and the differences in bone structure, strength and size is obvious in grappling,martial arts and pugilistic sports. It is in fact dangerous to mix these genders in these competitions and why this is wrong.

Oh come on, if we were really concerned about safety we'd cancel football.

Look, you're just advocating banning Trans people from the benefits of sports. That isn't going to fly anymore, Trump or no Trump. Or telling a Trans man, you can't really compete in masculine sports. Actually the UIL isn't even allowing that.

The UIL decided to play hardball with Mack. They basically forced him to wrestle females in an attempt to keep the sport and try to bar him from participating. He called their bluff and good for him.

--

Basically, this would have been a non-issue if they had just allowed him to participate with the boys.

Not so... if you had to be one of the men forced to grapple with this woman. There will always be an issue. It can not be just wished away Tom. Men and women are physically different. Nothing can change that.

So, basically throw the Trans kid in a dark corner somewhere, make him or her use the 'question mark' restroom, have Texas spend 300 million bucks on sports a year and then ban them from participating in their benefits, etc.

How about this...just ban taxpayer funding (including bonds) on any high school sports. That way, they'll be no benefit for Cisgendered kids unavailable to Trans kids. That way, no one is excluded. If you don't want that to happen, then just let him compete against males.

Nope...Just don't take hormones and compete in the gender you were assigned at birth. Problem solved. Transition afterwards.

You actually don't care about the safety of this woman while grappling men. It is ALL about an agenda with you Tom. If she got her arm broken or even more seriously injured by male grappler on the mat?...You could care less as long as you get to cheerlead for your LGBT agenda.

In other words, bar Trans kids from participating in 'cool' sports.

Oh come on..He is wrestling in his weight class.

You guys could care less about safety. Otherwise we'd get rid of high school football, which isn't safe.

I broke bones playing football in high school. Part of the deal. I was willing to play and put myself out there. So is he.

(02-25-2017 12:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:53 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:43 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:38 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Oh come on, if we were really concerned about safety we'd cancel football.

Look, you're just advocating banning Trans people from the benefits of sports. That isn't going to fly anymore, Trump or no Trump. Or telling a Trans man, you can't really compete in masculine sports. Actually the UIL isn't even allowing that.

The UIL decided to play hardball with Mack. They basically forced him to wrestle females in an attempt to keep the sport and try to bar him from participating. He called their bluff and good for him.

--

Basically, this would have been a non-issue if they had just allowed him to participate with the boys.

Not so... if you had to be one of the men forced to grapple with this woman. There will always be an issue. It can not be just wished away Tom. Men and women are physically different. Nothing can change that.

So, basically throw the Trans kid in a dark corner somewhere, make him or her use the 'question mark' restroom, have Texas spend 300 million bucks on sports a year and then ban them from participating in their benefits, etc.

How about this...just ban taxpayer funding (including bonds) on any high school sports. That way, they'll be no benefit for Cisgendered kids unavailable to Trans kids. That way, no one is excluded. If you don't want that to happen, then just let him compete against males.

Nope...Just don't take hormones and compete in the gender you were assigned at birth. Problem solved. Transition afterwards.

You actually don't care about the safety of this woman while grappling men. It is ALL about an agenda with you Tom. If she got her arm broken or even more seriously injured by male grappler on the mat?...You could care less as long as you get to cheerlead for your LGBT agenda.

Oh come on..He is wrestling in his weight class.

You guys could care less about safety. Otherwise we'd get rid of high school football, which isn't safe.

I broke bones playing football in high school. Part of the deal. I was willing to play and put myself out there. So is he.

No amount of using "he" is going to make her that Tom. You can't wish it so. If you can't see that this is dangerous? I don't know what to think about you.

Joe Rogan has touched on this on his Podcast when discussing the Transgendered MMA fighter. Everything Fo Shizzle has said was touched on. Wrestling is a tougher sport than football. If she had wrestled in the boy's tournament the argument would be that they're making it awkward for her. She decided at 17 to go through this, so what was the hurry. I'm sorry. What was the agenda?

(02-25-2017 12:00 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:50 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I think I've mentioned before that wrestling is my favourite sport. Before rugby for me, there was wrestling.

Tom, I've wrestled against a legally blind kid. I've coached and wrestled girls. I've seen Anthony Robles win an NCAA championship with 1 leg. In a tournament you're going to see trans kids, amputees, kids with Down's, etc.

In most states girls wrestle in the same tournaments as the boys.

If there's one thing you can't call wrestling ANYWHERE, it's non-inclusive.

But they do have rules and if they separate the boys and girls tournaments, it's because there are enough girls out there that they can put them where they do have a chance to get a championship without going in severely disadvantaged. You can't let a transperson wrestle in the girls tournament if they are on hormones. They are PEDs and that puts every other girl at the disadvantage and, while wrestling is inclusive, it's also fair. You can't let them in the girl's tournament.

The article suggests that Texas has a rule that you have to compete at the gender on your birth certificate. I think she should absolutely be able to wrestle in the boys tournament.

Mad...We are talking about a 17 year old young woman being allowed to grapple with 17 year old young men. No amount of hormones can separate the physical differences between them. There is a reason they are separated as they grow older. Men are simply far more physically gifted. Nothing can change that.

Why should the men be FORCED to grapple with women? You know when that happens the sport becomes a joke and the integrity of the sport is totally compromised. This is silly.

It's been standard procedure in wrestling for at least the 70s. It's not new. Girls are participating in boys tournaments everywhere. Having separate tournaments is really the odd thing to have at the school level. She practices with them full steam. I can guarantee that she's had her lips and nose bloodied like the rest of us.

So if it ruins the integrity of the sport, the integrity was ruined a long, long time ago.

(02-25-2017 12:10 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Joe Rogan has touched on this on his Podcast when discussing the Transgendered MMA fighter. Everything Fo Shizzle has said was touched on. Wrestling is a tougher sport than football. If she had wrestled in the boy's tournament the argument would be that they're making it awkward for her. She decided at 17 to go through this, so what was the hurry. I'm sorry. What was the agenda?

Oh, why don't you go through high school as the wrong gender. That couldn't possibly leave a mark on you, could it?

(02-25-2017 12:05 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 12:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:53 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:43 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 11:38 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Not so... if you had to be one of the men forced to grapple with this woman. There will always be an issue. It can not be just wished away Tom. Men and women are physically different. Nothing can change that.

So, basically throw the Trans kid in a dark corner somewhere, make him or her use the 'question mark' restroom, have Texas spend 300 million bucks on sports a year and then ban them from participating in their benefits, etc.

How about this...just ban taxpayer funding (including bonds) on any high school sports. That way, they'll be no benefit for Cisgendered kids unavailable to Trans kids. That way, no one is excluded. If you don't want that to happen, then just let him compete against males.

Nope...Just don't take hormones and compete in the gender you were assigned at birth. Problem solved. Transition afterwards.

You actually don't care about the safety of this woman while grappling men. It is ALL about an agenda with you Tom. If she got her arm broken or even more seriously injured by male grappler on the mat?...You could care less as long as you get to cheerlead for your LGBT agenda.

Oh come on..He is wrestling in his weight class.

You guys could care less about safety. Otherwise we'd get rid of high school football, which isn't safe.

I broke bones playing football in high school. Part of the deal. I was willing to play and put myself out there. So is he.

No amount of using "he" is going to make her that Tom. You can't wish it so. If you can't see that this is dangerous? I don't know what to think about you.

Its insulting to knowingly misgender someone. Can I just call you Missy or Miss Shizzle from here on out? I'm sure I'd get a note from the mods if I did that repeatedly. Mack identifies as a male. You telegraph your bias and your dislike for him when you repeatedly misgender him. And you are attempting to pretend he doesn't exist.