(02-22-2017 10:09 PM)p23570 Wrote:  We always knew there were some things going on at ole Piss. Hopefully the bag man is getting shut down but I think he just moved to LSU.

I look forward to hearing the stories as they come out.

http://www.tailgateheisman.com/2017/02/1...-in-there/

(02-23-2017 11:53 AM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 10:09 PM)p23570 Wrote:  We always knew there were some things going on at ole Piss. Hopefully the bag man is getting shut down but I think he just moved to LSU.

I look forward to hearing the stories as they come out.

http://www.tailgateheisman.com/2017/02/1...-in-there/

Just the idea of that is hilarious!

(02-22-2017 10:21 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Sorry Southern Miss, you're gonna get it now...

In all seriousness, it doesn't take Nostradamus to guess that this kind of thing was on the horizon for Ole Miss.

Already been there done that with the NCAA/Donnie Tyndall fiasco which has essentially destroyed our decent run as a basketball program (not that we've been historically impressive or anything).

And as far as football goes, we're just now "recovering" from our own incompetence in hiring Ellis Johnson for football in 2012. We don't need any other "random" NCAA investigations.

(02-23-2017 11:47 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 11:33 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  Penn State never sued the NCAA. What are you talking about?

The state did, and won. Which is correct as the NCAA had no grounds to extract such a monetary penalty on the school as it tried to do.


But to keep it on track here, it doesn't look like (at least so far) that the NCAA is trying to extract any excessive fine or penalties. Ole Miss already self imposing scholarship reductions and a bowl ban next season.

Yes, I don't want to derail the thread. But there is a narrative out there (mainly among low-IQ folk) of "Penn State (the school) whined and complained and that's the only reason they got off with a quote unquote slap on the wrist!"

Anything to combat that narrative ...

Well, if Ole Miss cheated the rules on recruiting football players (and it seems the school is not denying it), then that's exactly what the NCAA is for. That's the point of it.

(02-23-2017 04:44 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Well, if Ole Miss cheated the rules on recruiting football players (and it seems the school is not denying it), then that's exactly what the NCAA is for. That's the point of it.

It is what they are for. However, they are expected to be impartial and fair in their dealings with all offenders.

We have an interesting scenario setting up here. If North Carolina skates on 25 years of illegally and in violation of NCAA rules, cooking grades to keep player eligible, and the NCAA ignores this or slaps them on the wrist, and then hands out the maximum to Ole Miss which has only given undue benefits to players there will be a major backlash against the NCAA.

IMO the NCAA had to do something about Ole Miss because their player admitted to being paid during the national broadcast of the NFL draft and did so after the NCAA had essentially closed the book on that part of the investigation. It was a massively embarrassing moment for the NCAA. It made their investigative and compliance group look totally inept.

But, are three years of payola more serious of a violation of institutional control than academic fraud for the purposes of keeping players eligible? I think not. Boosters and coaches can pay players without the President and faculty being aware.

But if the University pays a professor for a non existent class, if the Bursar bills students or the government for classes not taken, if the Records office records the grades of non existent classes, and diplomas are issued for work never done, you tell me which is the bigger case of lack of institutional control? All of the above is solely the responsibility of the University's staff. The only way UNC can claim innocence here is if they say hey we were in control, we just lied!

Now juxtapose those two cases against the horror that is Baylor athletics. Neither UNC nor Ole Miss are monsters by comparison.

The current maelstrom that is the convergence of these cases is going to be very difficult for the NCAA to navigate with integrity. All three institutions are going to have get hammered if the NCAA is to keep it's credibility. If not, it could be the seminal moment in a move away from NCAA governance altogether.

(02-23-2017 04:36 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-23-2017 11:47 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 11:33 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  Penn State never sued the NCAA. What are you talking about?

The state did, and won. Which is correct as the NCAA had no grounds to extract such a monetary penalty on the school as it tried to do.


But to keep it on track here, it doesn't look like (at least so far) that the NCAA is trying to extract any excessive fine or penalties. Ole Miss already self imposing scholarship reductions and a bowl ban next season.

Yes, I don't want to derail the thread. But there is a narrative out there (mainly among low-IQ folk) of "Penn State (the school) whined and complained and that's the only reason they got off with a quote unquote slap on the wrist!"

Anything to combat that narrative ...

LOL. You don't have to have a low IQ to think poorly pf PSU. Dislike of PSU has no social or intellectual boundaries.

Cheating to get recruits is not in the same realm of PSU/Baylor/Montana.

Hugh did amazing things with Ole Miss. Now it's time to pay up. I don't really expect much to come of this. I think the louisville story has much more potential for juicy details of sex and recruiting. Ole piss was just handing out cash and cars.

I wonder what that fan said to Petrino to get him so mad.

(02-23-2017 04:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  All three institutions are going to have get hammered if the NCAA is to keep it's credibility. If not, it could be the seminal moment in a move away from NCAA governance altogether.

Don't want to derail from Ole Miss, but in the case of Baylor the NCAA has no jurisdiction. It was crimes against the law, not cheating NCAA rules.

I think it's easy to see the difference.

(02-23-2017 04:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  But if the University pays a professor for a non existent class, if the Bursar bills students or the government for classes not taken, if the Records office records the grades of non existent classes, and diplomas are issued for work never done, you tell me which is the bigger case of lack of institutional control? All of the above is solely the responsibility of the University's staff. The only way UNC can claim innocence here is if they say hey we were in control, we just lied!

Does the name Thomas Petee ring a bell?

(02-22-2017 08:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 07:43 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 07:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 05:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 05:44 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sounds like a made up blanket term letting the NCAA arbitrarily determine violations and punishments, as it pleases.

Sue them, then. Worked for Penn St.

No. The allegations phase of an investigation simply formalizes the areas to be determined for any subsequent charges against the school. In this phase Ole Miss will cooperate with the lesser charges and accept them, deny the lack of institutional control allegation (which does provoke a larger turnover of information by Ole Miss and therefore gives the NCAA a clearer access to administrative oversight issues) and from this negotiation when the charges are finally leveled, punishment can follow.

So right now they enter a dialogue with the NCAA in which they will quickly settle on some allegations, deny others, and seek a compromise (plea bargain) position.

The allegation of lack of institutional control merely means they will have to settle on a lot more in order to defend against that charge, and they will have to give the NCAA a much greater look into their program.

That said, I'm fine with all of this and it's fair. But it's fair only inasmuch as the same happens at Chapel Hill with regards to bogus classes, billed through the bursar's office, recorded by the records office, complete with falsified signatures of instructors who were on the payroll of the University. It's fair if the textbook definition of lack of institutional control is actually investigated and adjudicated at Chapel Hill.

And by the way if any of those classes were paid for with government money, or paid for by actual students unrelated to the athletic department then of course there are criminal charges that are possible there for fraud.

So who do you think turned them in? A Big 12 school? The SEC has sworn to protect each other. (or Dabo and Clemson?)

Miss State...plus I think they got caught incidentally with the La Lafayette investigation. I think it was Lafayette, don't jump in me if it was one of the other Louisiana schools.

Well.........it certainly doesn't take a major stool pigeon when your recruits post Facebook pictures of each other waiving a hand full of 100 dollar bills to the nation.

Justice may be blind, but she's not stupid!

Didn't some Alabama recruits do that a couple years back and nothing happened?

(02-22-2017 10:09 PM)p23570 Wrote:  We always knew there were some things going on at ole Piss. Hopefully the bag man is getting shut down but I think he just moved to LSU.

I look forward to hearing the stories as they come out.

1 top 3 recruiting class there-ok, new coach, good sell. Its possible. But 2 in 3 years? Getting 4 of the top 100 in Texas including 2 of the top 3? Not at Ole Miss.

(02-23-2017 04:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-23-2017 04:44 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Well, if Ole Miss cheated the rules on recruiting football players (and it seems the school is not denying it), then that's exactly what the NCAA is for. That's the point of it.

It is what they are for. However, they are expected to be impartial and fair in their dealings with all offenders.

We have an interesting scenario setting up here. If North Carolina skates on 25 years of illegally and in violation of NCAA rules, cooking grades to keep player eligible, and the NCAA ignores this or slaps them on the wrist, and then hands out the maximum to Ole Miss which has only given undue benefits to players there will be a major backlash against the NCAA.

IMO the NCAA had to do something about Ole Miss because their player admitted to being paid during the national broadcast of the NFL draft and did so after the NCAA had essentially closed the book on that part of the investigation. It was a massively embarrassing moment for the NCAA. It made their investigative and compliance group look totally inept.

But, are three years of payola more serious of a violation of institutional control than academic fraud for the purposes of keeping players eligible? I think not. Boosters and coaches can pay players without the President and faculty being aware.

But if the University pays a professor for a non existent class, if the Bursar bills students or the government for classes not taken, if the Records office records the grades of non existent classes, and diplomas are issued for work never done, you tell me which is the bigger case of lack of institutional control? All of the above is solely the responsibility of the University's staff. The only way UNC can claim innocence here is if they say hey we were in control, we just lied!

Now juxtapose those two cases against the horror that is Baylor athletics. Neither UNC nor Ole Miss are monsters by comparison.

The current maelstrom that is the convergence of these cases is going to be very difficult for the NCAA to navigate with integrity. All three institutions are going to have get hammered if the NCAA is to keep it's credibility. If not, it could be the seminal moment in a move away from NCAA governance altogether.

To me, fake classes are the ultimate violation. Then they really aren't students (alright, they took a few real ones).

Yet the NCAA is most concerned about agents.

(02-23-2017 05:45 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(02-23-2017 04:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  But if the University pays a professor for a non existent class, if the Bursar bills students or the government for classes not taken, if the Records office records the grades of non existent classes, and diplomas are issued for work never done, you tell me which is the bigger case of lack of institutional control? All of the above is solely the responsibility of the University's staff. The only way UNC can claim innocence here is if they say hey we were in control, we just lied!

Does the name Thomas Petee ring a bell?

Are we talking about the Wesleyan grad who got his MD in Massachusetts (Thomas Peteet), or someone else?

Watch out Mississippi Valley State. You're gonna get slammed.

(02-23-2017 06:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-23-2017 04:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-23-2017 04:44 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Well, if Ole Miss cheated the rules on recruiting football players (and it seems the school is not denying it), then that's exactly what the NCAA is for. That's the point of it.

It is what they are for. However, they are expected to be impartial and fair in their dealings with all offenders.

We have an interesting scenario setting up here. If North Carolina skates on 25 years of illegally and in violation of NCAA rules, cooking grades to keep player eligible, and the NCAA ignores this or slaps them on the wrist, and then hands out the maximum to Ole Miss which has only given undue benefits to players there will be a major backlash against the NCAA.

IMO the NCAA had to do something about Ole Miss because their player admitted to being paid during the national broadcast of the NFL draft and did so after the NCAA had essentially closed the book on that part of the investigation. It was a massively embarrassing moment for the NCAA. It made their investigative and compliance group look totally inept.

But, are three years of payola more serious of a violation of institutional control than academic fraud for the purposes of keeping players eligible? I think not. Boosters and coaches can pay players without the President and faculty being aware.

But if the University pays a professor for a non existent class, if the Bursar bills students or the government for classes not taken, if the Records office records the grades of non existent classes, and diplomas are issued for work never done, you tell me which is the bigger case of lack of institutional control? All of the above is solely the responsibility of the University's staff. The only way UNC can claim innocence here is if they say hey we were in control, we just lied!

Now juxtapose those two cases against the horror that is Baylor athletics. Neither UNC nor Ole Miss are monsters by comparison.

The current maelstrom that is the convergence of these cases is going to be very difficult for the NCAA to navigate with integrity. All three institutions are going to have get hammered if the NCAA is to keep it's credibility. If not, it could be the seminal moment in a move away from NCAA governance altogether.

To me, fake classes are the ultimate violation. Then they really aren't students (alright, they took a few real ones).

Yet the NCAA is most concerned about agents.

The NCAA is most concerned about whatever it is that makes their job easier, so they can focus on banking 70 million a year in basketball tourney profits to one of their endowments. Nothing loves future funding like a bureaucracy.

(02-23-2017 06:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-23-2017 05:45 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(02-23-2017 04:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  But if the University pays a professor for a non existent class, if the Bursar bills students or the government for classes not taken, if the Records office records the grades of non existent classes, and diplomas are issued for work never done, you tell me which is the bigger case of lack of institutional control? All of the above is solely the responsibility of the University's staff. The only way UNC can claim innocence here is if they say hey we were in control, we just lied!

Does the name Thomas Petee ring a bell?

Are we talking about the Wesleyan grad who got his MD in Massachusetts (Thomas Peteet), or someone else?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/14/sports...uburn.html

(02-23-2017 06:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 10:09 PM)p23570 Wrote:  We always knew there were some things going on at ole Piss. Hopefully the bag man is getting shut down but I think he just moved to LSU.

I look forward to hearing the stories as they come out.

1 top 3 recruiting class there-ok, new coach, good sell. Its possible. But 2 in 3 years? Getting 4 of the top 100 in Texas including 2 of the top 3? Not at Ole Miss.

Yep. Reminds me of Baylor and Louisville recruiting classes in the past. This year was like MAryland??? UA bag man?

(02-23-2017 10:20 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(02-23-2017 06:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-23-2017 05:45 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(02-23-2017 04:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  But if the University pays a professor for a non existent class, if the Bursar bills students or the government for classes not taken, if the Records office records the grades of non existent classes, and diplomas are issued for work never done, you tell me which is the bigger case of lack of institutional control? All of the above is solely the responsibility of the University's staff. The only way UNC can claim innocence here is if they say hey we were in control, we just lied!

Does the name Thomas Petee ring a bell?

Are we talking about the Wesleyan grad who got his MD in Massachusetts (Thomas Peteet), or someone else?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/14/sports...uburn.html

I didn't know the guys name but knew about the investigation and the NYT piece. I can't say I'm surprised. I've not been enthused with the Jay Jacobs athletic department for a number of reasons. They dodged this issue in the 80's by having a major in general studies (alumni helped to stop that one).

I checked out allegations for years. It's nothing new, but it is easier to see now because the literacy rate for these kids is nil in a lot of cases. Some of them couldn't make heads or tails out of the McGuffey reader. Dick, Jane, Spot, Fluffy and Sally would be tough enough.

All I can say is I long for the day when this stuff is cleaned up and cleaned out. When I was in school the jocks weren't as thuggish around the students as many are today. I can totally understand why many undergrads are turned off of going to the events.

So 58-56 what do you suggest as a mode of attack. The culture is rife with this hypocrisy. It's wealthy business men who pay them. It's academics who tolerate, coddle and pass them for the publicity and cash. It's the social justice people who make excuses for them. And it's the NCAA that calls them amateurs while bankrolling millions off of their basketball tourney. And all too frequently it is the court system that handles them years on down the road.

The failure is complete and extant, and will remain so. Why? We no longer live in an age of personal accountability. Deny responsibility and assign blame is the modern mantra. It is uniformly destructive to both the individual and society. One cannot change, or improve without first admitting error. And we dare not speak of morality because to do so now is no longer considered constructive instruction, but rather hate speech against the immoral.

Sine Die.

Oxford — A day after Ole Miss administrators announced a self-imposed bowl ban amid scandalous allegations and potential NCAA sanctions, the university has elected to formally terminate their high profile Bag Men.

“The primary responsibility of a Bag Man is not to get caught,” said a dejected Coach Freeze. “Obviously, based on some poor investments and some chatty Cathys, our Bag Men have gotten us into some hot water.”

Freeze continued, “It’s like they always say, ‘loose lips sink scholarships’.”

A cloud of embarrassment hung over the campus as obnoxiously dressed preppy kids came to grips that a Bag Man paid a recruit $13,000 only to have the young man sign elsewhere.

“The Bag Man should have paid him more,” said sophomore Shackleford Bramwick from Houston. “I haven’t seen an investment this embarrassing since my father’s snafu with Enron.”

Despite a bleak set of circumstances, Ole Miss chancellor Jeffrey Vitter remained optimistic. “We have a deep alumni base that is crafty with credit and holds deep-seated insecurities about having Mississippi roots and not winning a conference championship in over 50 years. This breeds a passion to do whatever it takes.”

While the program will sit out next year’s official bowl season, they insist that the Egg Bowl will be a worthy replacement. This, despite a 55-20 embarrassment in the 2016 Egg Bowl at home.

By all appearances, the program is already looking toward the future. “We must press on,” Freeze said. “We’re humbled and grateful for the service of the Bag Men that lucratively shepherded this program into the middle of the SEC West standings. I’m saddened that we need to formally part ways, but I trust that God will open the right slush funds to bring us back together for that next Sugar Bowl trip.”

(02-23-2017 10:31 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(02-23-2017 06:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  1 top 3 recruiting class there-ok, new coach, good sell. Its possible. But 2 in 3 years? Getting 4 of the top 100 in Texas including 2 of the top 3? Not at Ole Miss.

Yep. Reminds me of Baylor and Louisville recruiting classes in the past. This year was like MAryland??? UA bag man?

Maryland finished 17th this year (Rivals) coming off a 6-7 season.

Louisville finished 29th this season. The Cards have had several years where they were ranked in the 25-30 range. Despite having winning records all but three years this century, I don't believe they have ever had a recruiting class ranked in the top 20.

What year are you referring to in regards to your unfounded implication?