(02-20-2017 11:45 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  I agree with striving to be the best. Where folks differ is how that is defined.

VCU, UR, ODU, GMU and APP are all peer schools during my adult life. I see JMU athletics as more successful across the board than any of these schools. Two went all in on football and three all in on basketball. None have had the all around athletic success JMU has had over the years.

It seems there is a small, loud contingent that wants FBS at all cost and they are on these boards. In Frisco, FBS was the topic of many conversations. To a person, all I heard was how people liked where we are and I did not start any of these conversations. I just listened to what folks had to say.

The CAA is a very good mid major league. Should JMU leave it, it needs to be for a better all sports conference not just football. Our administration has made this clear in their communications.

Why are a few of you still struggling to accept this?

Why do you think JMU will not continue to have the same dominant success (i.e. going to NCAA tournaments) in those sports in an FBS conference as we would in the CAA? Its not like VCU, ODU, GMU or App St. were any good in the sports JMU is good in other than MBB, FB or in ODU's case WBB. If we are Sun Belt, CUSA or MAC we'd still be great in those sports (probably best in each league except in Sun Belt Baseball). Oh ye of little faith.

Agreed that MBB has been the tough nut to crack- all other sports at JMU seem to flourish. All the more reason to launch a Men's LAX program. I have no doubt if JMU did that within 5 years they would be a national player.

I understand now. I thought you were saying it was Football against the other sports.

I'm not sure any schools have made their conference decisions based on Olympic sports, maybe someone can shed light on when that has happened.
Football and Men's basketball are the revenue generators in the NCAA and they do take priority over other sports when selecting a conference home. That is not saying you completely ignore how Olympic sports are impacted, but they can't be construed as equivalent in the current college landscape. That's why you see some schools have Olympic sports playing in a conference that doesn't match their Football/Basketball conference. I.e Air Force plays ice Hockey in the northeastern based Atlantic Hockey conference.
The priority has to be to take care of the big rocks first and all the Little Rocks will fall into place, not vice versa.

There are plenty of examples where programs compete at the highest level in Football and Men's basketball as well as competing at the highest level in Olympic sports.
JMU's heavy $44 million athletic budget is plenty big to do both with proper resource allocation and I am all for supporting Olympic sports at an appropriate level, which to my knowledge, they all are currently fully funded with max scholarships.
JMU spending $62 million on a football stadium and ready to spend $88 million on a basketball arena tells us exactly where the priorities are. Those humongous investments have to be foreshadowing of a move to the highest level of NCAA competition. Otherwise, somebody owes us a ton of construction money back including the creators of the Carr Report.

(02-20-2017 08:15 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I still don't understand the premise of the original post. Is horn saying Football aspirations prevent JMU from having good women's sports and baseball team?

Is it...we're winning yay..better stop looking for the next challenge?

Yes CAA is an excellent mid major conference overall..there is just hardly any fit left for football or peers remaining

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(02-21-2017 09:59 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I understand now. I thought you were saying it was Football against the other sports.

I'm not sure any schools have made their conference decisions based on Olympic sports, maybe someone can shed light on when that has happened.
Football and Men's basketball are the revenue generators in the NCAA and they do take priority over other sports when selecting a conference home. That is not saying you completely ignore how Olympic sports are impacted, but they can't be construed as equivalent in the current college landscape. That's why you see some schools have Olympic sports playing in a conference that doesn't match their Football/Basketball conference. I.e Air Force plays ice Hockey in the northeastern based Atlantic Hockey conference.
The priority has to be to take care of the big rocks first and all the Little Rocks will fall into place, not vice versa.

There are plenty of examples where programs compete at the highest level in Football and Men's basketball as well as competing at the highest level in Olympic sports.
JMU's heavy $44 million athletic budget is plenty big to do both with proper resource allocation and I am all for supporting Olympic sports at an appropriate level, which to my knowledge, they all are currently fully funded with max scholarships.
JMU spending $62 million on a football stadium and ready to spend $88 million on a basketball arena tells us exactly where the priorities are. Those humongous investments have to be foreshadowing of a move to the highest level of NCAA competition. Otherwise, somebody owes us a ton of construction money back including the creators of the Carr Report.

JMU also spent $40+ million on Sentara Park, home to many of JMU's Olympic sports like soccer, lacrosse and field hockey, and another $10 million on the baseball and softball parks. There's can be no argument JMU has invested in the necessary facilities to succeed.

To the highlighted passage in your post...you shared there are many examples...(and by "examples" I assume you mean all-sport conferences) where all the varsity sports played at JMU might continue to flourish at the highest possible levels of D1 competition.

If you're correct, you shouldn't have any trouble naming one. It's mandatory, however, that the conference named provides an inclusive home for all JMU sports. And that's where we find the rub. I can honestly think of only one such conference...the ACC...and the ACC isn't looking to invite JMU anytime soon.

I'm not arguing JMU's situation one way or another...I was simply pointing out the overall success JMU was experiencing. If JMU was willing to sacrifice/limit the other varsity sports in favor of elevating FB and MBB (the justifications for doing so being irrelevant) JMU might already be playing FBS FB. Given the less than ideal choices in possible G5 conference mates, however, I've come to accept that JMU will stay in the CAA.

Nothing like setting up an impossible strawman as step one... to pretend the CAA is OK for football...

Independent would be better - stay CAA for all else.

If UMass can do it with their weak pedigree...and yes, they are pulling it off...damn straight jmu can do it (if nobody comes calling...but how long do we wait?)

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(02-22-2017 01:07 AM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Nothing like setting up an impossible strawman as step one... to pretend the CAA is OK for football...

Independent would be better - stay CAA for all else.

If UMass can do it with their weak pedigree...and yes, they are pulling it off...damn straight jmu can do it (if nobody comes calling...but how long do we wait?)

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Apparently you don't really understand what a "strawman" argument means (because first off I'm not arguing, and secondly there's nothing "strawman" about what I've shared).

A rational acceptance of the reality of where our varsity athletic programs reside (and the national success they are experiencing) isn't to be dismissed.

You offer up UMass as an example of an institution "pulling it off"...whatever that means...while ignoring the fact UMass was first a member of a FBS FB conference, and remains a member of another conference for all other sports. The original connection to the MAC is what allowed UMass to then go independent. That's hardly a model for anything (except how not to manage a transition), and is a pathway that's no longer open (the MAC is not admitting anyone right now, much less a FB only member).

You think JMU going independent in FB (while dissing and dismissing the CAA in the process) is the way to go. That's fine...we're all entitled to dream, however, I don't see that ever happening.

My original post was meant to highlight the success our varsity programs enjoyed this past week, while seeing them balanced against the aspirations of the FB program. These are good times people, and they're all happening in the CAA. That's reality. We can spin yarns of future success in scenarios yet to come, but for the moment, and until that "unicorn" conference comes calling for JMU, enjoy what's happening right before your eyes.

(02-22-2017 01:07 AM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Independent would be better - stay CAA for all else.

If UMass can do it with their weak pedigree...and yes, they are pulling it off...damn straight jmu can do it (if nobody comes calling...but how long do we wait?)

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There are plenty of reasoned and logical arguments for an FBS move. Using Umass as an example is not one. Umass is exhibit 1A in how not to handle a move to FBS. Their program is a disaster. Their program has been such a disaster, I would argue they are behind us in attractiveness to FBS conferences.

try again bcp

(02-22-2017 10:59 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  

(02-22-2017 01:07 AM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Independent would be better - stay CAA for all else.

If UMass can do it with their weak pedigree...and yes, they are pulling it off...damn straight jmu can do it (if nobody comes calling...but how long do we wait?)

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There are plenty of reasoned and logical arguments for an FBS move. Using Umass as an example is not one. Umass is exhibit 1A in how not to handle a move to FBS. Their program is a disaster. Their program has been such a disaster, I would argue they are behind us in attractiveness to FBS conferences.

try again bcp

I would agree.

I don't think JMU has to sacrifice Olympic sports in pursuing another conference for FBS football. The current budget is big enough to do both as JMU is spending at G5 Levels already.
In my mind, The sacrifice was made years ago when they eliminated 10 Olympic sports so they could fully fund the rest. 17 JMU sports compete at the highest NCAA level, only one does not which makes it very weird for JMU to say they want to compete at the highest national level, except for football.
Cost containment football in FCS was good for the developmental phase of JMU's athletic program. Not so much now. Our younger football siblings are growing up much faster than we are and all the reasons point to having more ambition.

The one thing we cannot get back is time.
I say all this as a supporter who is more invested in the basketball program, but I know the football bus drives the NCAA landscape.

(02-22-2017 12:48 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I don't think JMU has to sacrifice Olympic sports in pursuing another conference for FBS football. The current budget is big enough to do both as JMU is spending at G5 Levels already.

I say all this as a supporter who is more invested in the basketball program, but I know the football bus drives the NCAA landscape.

As others have stated, the CAA is a top mid-major conference....except Men's Basketball. Football does drive the bus but MBB is in the back-up driver. JMU basketball will never (or at least anytime soon) reach it's potential playing in the CAA. Even if that program dominates every season, they must win the CAAT in order to play in March. The NCAAT is the measure of success.

I agree that football can't be the only deciding factor when considering a conference move but at the same time, they aren't going to be able to make a decision that will be better for every sport.

It's just not an either or argument... thrilled for Olympic sports doing well...and how is football limiting other sports now or when we go FBS? Is this all about travel in the regular season?

UMass isn't great, but they are making it...

Dissing CAA football is not the same as dissing CAA...separate entities...

Longhorn you are saying ACC is ideal, and we can't, so let's not try (now there is accurate strawmanning for ya ...many others say take FBS and know it's a steppingstone.

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(02-22-2017 05:43 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  It's just not an either or argument... thrilled for Olympic sports doing well...and how is football limiting other sports now or when we go FBS? Is this all about travel in the regular season?

UMass isn't great, but they are making it...

Dissing CAA football is not the same as dissing CAA...separate entities...

Longhorn you are saying ACC is ideal, and we can't, so let's not try (now there is accurate strawmanning for ya ...many others say take FBS and know it's a steppingstone.

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None of us will ever know (with 100% surety) if JMU's administration ever seriously pursued a "FB only" membership in any conference...the Sunbelt being the prime suspect. If JMU had asked, and had it been accepted, we'd all be happy right now (or at least I would).

Unfortunately, the CUSA, MAC and Sunbelt will not accept a "FB only" member. Perhaps those conferences don't want to accept a FB only member because they fear being used as a stepping stone. Whatever reason(s), it's all speculation, and is irrelevant to the current success JMU's programs are having.

Frankly, (lacking an invitation from a G5 conference) the CAA is a good fit for JMU. Not one of those G5 conferences (MAC, CUSA or Sunbelt) is setting the world on fire in MBB, and their FB programs aren't anything special.

A good question ... what are Liberty's other sports doing when football moves to FBS independent? Still part of the Big South?

(02-22-2017 07:00 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  A good question ... what are Liberty's other sports doing when football moves to FBS independent? Still part of the Big South?

That is my understanding.

So if JMU can get one good P5 in Bridgeforth every season, some of you feel we should go to FBS as a football Indy?

(02-22-2017 07:00 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  A good question ... what are Liberty's other sports doing when football moves to FBS independent? Still part of the Big South?

I think they said in the press conference that the Big South members have to vote on whether or not to allow LU to remain for the rest of the sports. Could be interesting. LU is interested in staying for the other sports

(02-20-2017 03:55 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 03:46 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  This goes beyond the teams listed in the subject line, and to build off the sentiment in bold above, I submit the following:

Men's soccer had a strong end to their season after a disappointing start. Women's soccer had a decent run in the CAA tournament. VB made it to the NCAAs, swimming and diving is tearing it up, and men's golf and track/cross country have some very strong student-athletes. Women's golf is a little up and down, as are our tennis teams. All in all, it shapes up to a great athletics department top to bottom.

I totally agree.

Women's swimming and diving in a neck and neck battle with W&M for what could be another CAA title this school year. JMU will likely have a slight lead heading into the final day (Saturday).