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Cost of FBS vs FCS football
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-17-2017 10:49 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 09:48 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 08:40 PM)dtd_vandal Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 08:03 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  With FCS you spend less on scholarships (22 fewer scholarships, times however much a full ride costs annually). Let's say that it's $100k per year. That saves you $2.2 million, as an example. But that comes with the loss of revenue streams from the CFP payout and TV contracts. It's probably a wash in terms of hard money, but then you have the bad optics of being the only team to drop to the FCS in 30 years affecting donations and it's no surprise that FCS is the worse option for Idaho.

There is no benefit to moving down. Honestly, dropping football completely and focusing on basketball is preferable to moving down.

According to the finance guy during the questioning by the state board the other day, the 22 less scholarships will only save about $300k per year. When you look at that and compare the revenue streams being lost, it's even more of a no brainer that a move down is horrible financially.

But Idaho wouldn't get the playoff money as an FBS Indy right? You have to be in a conference don't you?

Cheers!

There isn't much playoff money -- just the Indy share which is I think around $300K. Most of the extra money comes from increased payouts for guarantee games and higher donation levels to the department.

Coincidentally, that amount makes up the scholarship costs of FBS versus FCS, at least according to what UI claimed just this week. Since UI is virtually never at the 85 limit, it may even be a net gain... sigh.
02-18-2017 10:48 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-17-2017 03:08 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 02:59 PM)YNot Wrote:  Excuse my ignorance, but aren't there several FCS institutions that already operate at similar budgets to many of the Sun Belt, MAC, and C-USA schools? Especially recent call-ups like Charlotte, Old Dominion, Coastal Carolina, etc.

WEST: Montana, Montana St., NDSU, South Dakota St., (and Wichita St.)[Idaho and NMSU]
EAST: Liberty, JMU, Delaware, Jacksonville St., Youngstown St. [UMass]

People keep repeating "FBS is too expensive" like it's Gospel, but I'm very familiar with the numbers for Idaho and even without any CFP or FBS conference money Idaho will still lose considerably more money as an FCS school than it would as an FBS Independent.

For the Montanas, who've already basically maxed out the revenue in their markets, maybe it doesn't make sense to go FBS without a conference. But in many other places it may be actually be a better financial decision to go FBS, conference or no.

If you look at the USA Today revenues and costs, the biggest losers are the G5 schools. FCS schools don't have the same deficits as the MAC/CUSA/Sun Belt schools. Some of the AAC schools have the biggest deficits of all.

You not only have the extra 20 football scholarships, but you have to have extra women's scholarships to comply with Title IX, you have to have 2 extra sports (16 minimum instead of 14) and the salary and facilities gap is huge and continuing to grow.

That has to be offset by buy-a-win road games, donations and attendance. For a number of schools, going 3-9 in the Sun Belt means lower attendance than going 10-2 in FCS.
02-18-2017 10:48 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-17-2017 02:59 PM)YNot Wrote:  Excuse my ignorance, but aren't there several FCS institutions that already operate at similar budgets to many of the Sun Belt, MAC, and C-USA schools? Especially recent call-ups like Charlotte, Old Dominion, Coastal Carolina, etc.

WEST: Montana, Montana St., NDSU, South Dakota St., (and Wichita St.)[Idaho and NMSU]
EAST: Liberty, JMU, Delaware, Jacksonville St., Youngstown St. [UMass]

Athletic Budgets sometimes don't really mean much. I think it might be more instructive to look at the cash outlays required to make the jump or sustain a program

1) Facilities - You'll need a place to play. And they usually don't come cheap. And its not just a stadium. You'll need practice facilities, workout facilities, etc. As a FBS, you'll be competing for recruits with schools that provide the 'best of the best'. You can try to do it on the cheap, but you're going to have challenges competing if you do it that way.

2) Coaching salaries - FBS coaches make more....much more. And you'll need more assistant coaches too, and they make much more than FCS or D2 assistants too.

3) Title IX cash outlays - You'll need more womens teams, coaches, and travel budgets, plus facilities for them.

4) FCOA - You'll be paying it as a FBS.

So beyond the scholarship (usually non-cash) costs, there are significant costs to being FBS over FCS.
02-18-2017 11:08 AM
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uakronkid Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-17-2017 08:40 PM)dtd_vandal Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 08:03 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  With FCS you spend less on scholarships (22 fewer scholarships, times however much a full ride costs annually). Let's say that it's $100k per year. That saves you $2.2 million, as an example. But that comes with the loss of revenue streams from the CFP payout and TV contracts. It's probably a wash in terms of hard money, but then you have the bad optics of being the only team to drop to the FCS in 30 years affecting donations and it's no surprise that FCS is the worse option for Idaho.

There is no benefit to moving down. Honestly, dropping football completely and focusing on basketball is preferable to moving down.

According to the finance guy during the questioning by the state board the other day, the 22 less scholarships will only save about $300k per year. When you look at that and compare the revenue streams being lost, it's even more of a no brainer that a move down is horrible financially.

Does Idaho not cover Full Cost of Attendance?

All of this just makes me wonder if you're going to see Idaho use the backlash from all this as an excuse to just drop football completely.
02-18-2017 01:17 PM
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-18-2017 01:17 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 08:40 PM)dtd_vandal Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 08:03 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  With FCS you spend less on scholarships (22 fewer scholarships, times however much a full ride costs annually). Let's say that it's $100k per year. That saves you $2.2 million, as an example. But that comes with the loss of revenue streams from the CFP payout and TV contracts. It's probably a wash in terms of hard money, but then you have the bad optics of being the only team to drop to the FCS in 30 years affecting donations and it's no surprise that FCS is the worse option for Idaho.

There is no benefit to moving down. Honestly, dropping football completely and focusing on basketball is preferable to moving down.

According to the finance guy during the questioning by the state board the other day, the 22 less scholarships will only save about $300k per year. When you look at that and compare the revenue streams being lost, it's even more of a no brainer that a move down is horrible financially.

Does Idaho not cover Full Cost of Attendance?

All of this just makes me wonder if you're going to see Idaho use the backlash from all this as an excuse to just drop football completely.

You are not the first to suggest this possibility. The BSC has a rule against having a full time member without football (they saw what happened to the BWC and WAC). They made an exception for UI but it was understood they expected and wanted UI football. UI without football is not as valuable to the BSC and sets a precedent for other cash strapped schools to drop football, however they did make an exception and take UI without football. It would be interesting to see what the BSC would do if UI dropped football and wanted to remain.
02-18-2017 02:08 PM
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NoDak Online
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Post: #36
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
Liberty, UND, NDSU, and USD are the only FCS schools paying FCOA to my knowledge. UND will drop more sports (like M/W tennis) before it will touch FCOA.
02-18-2017 03:01 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-18-2017 01:17 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  All of this just makes me wonder if you're going to see Idaho use the backlash from all this as an excuse to just drop football completely.

Would be a more sensible decision for the university than playing FCS football. My view has always been, try indy for a while and see what happens, especially now that the program has straightened out. If we fall down, scheduling is terrible and the program falls apart again, then fine, give up and drop the sport.

If the fanbase hates the idea of FCS, the marketing value is actually negative for a school that competes with BSU, and it costs a ton of money then why do it?
02-18-2017 04:12 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-18-2017 03:01 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Liberty, UND, NDSU, and USD are the only FCS schools paying FCOA to my knowledge. UND will drop more sports (like M/W tennis) before it will touch FCOA.

UND has d-1 wrestling still right?

Cheers!
02-18-2017 06:03 PM
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NoDak Online
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Post: #39
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-18-2017 06:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 03:01 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Liberty, UND, NDSU, and USD are the only FCS schools paying FCOA to my knowledge. UND will drop more sports (like M/W tennis) before it will touch FCOA.

UND has d-1 wrestling still right?

Cheers!

No, that was dropped in the 90's at the DII level to add more women's sports. NDSU and SDSU have it though and it's pretty high priority with them because their now Big 12 affiliates.

As said before, the ND schools wanted to go DI even in the 70's and on, but could not get a conference invite and couldn't convince our North Central Conference schools to move up enough masse. When Northern Iowa left the NCC to start the then MidCon with Green Bay, Valpo, E Ill, W Ill and Sw Mo St, that was a massive blow to the NCC and our egos as we werent wanted. N Colorado and Omaha later did move up along with the SD schools. ND schools have always been much more comprehensive than other NCC schools and have more Minnesota fans and connections
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2017 06:52 PM by NoDak.)
02-18-2017 06:42 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-18-2017 06:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 06:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 03:01 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Liberty, UND, NDSU, and USD are the only FCS schools paying FCOA to my knowledge. UND will drop more sports (like M/W tennis) before it will touch FCOA.

UND has d-1 wrestling still right?

Cheers!

No, that was dropped in the 90's at the DII level to add more women's sports. NDSU and SDSU have it though and it's pretty high priority with them because their now Big 12 affiliates.

As said before, the ND schools wanted to go DI even in the 70's and on, but could not get a conference invite and couldn't convince our North Central Conference schools to move up enough masse. When Northern Iowa left the NCC to start the then MidCon with Green Bay, Valpo, E Ill, W Ill and Sw Mo St, that was a massive blow to the NCC and our egos as we werent wanted. N Colorado and Omaha later did move up along with the SD schools. ND schools have always been much more comprehensive than other NCC schools and have more Minnesota fans and connections

Oh ok. That's also good historical info. I didn't know UNI excluded you guys.

Cheers!
02-18-2017 07:46 PM
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