(02-17-2017 07:13 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 05:39 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 05:27 PM)NoDak Wrote:  That might pave the way for FBS and men's hockey, whose rink had a recent major expansion recently.

Liberty University presents "Televangelists on Ice!"

They have six ACHA teams and good facilities.

Ignore the troll.

(02-17-2017 09:57 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  I think Wichita St may be the next school to be requesting the waiver. That will be the tell tale sign if Liberty is one off.

While they might do it, I'm doubtful at this point that WSU will try for FBS independence. Here's why

1) WSU is public...Unless the Koch Bros. want to just pay the bills, going without CFP money will be a very expensive proposition
2) Scheduling, scheduling, scheduling! Its not just about getting a schedule filled, but rather about getting a schedule that fans will care about. Constant schedule changes, which is a problem with Independents, is an energy sapper. Who wants to play Wichita State in football every year in a non-conference environment?

(02-17-2017 07:55 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  unless the NCAA gives the reason for the original waiver

Pretty easy, actually.


NCAA: "Prove, within reason, that you can afford the move."

Liberty: "We have 15k students on campus and over 100k students online, that are paying tuition"

Rest of the schools: "Uhh ... got me!"

I just don't see Wichita getting its hands that dirty for football, because it will take away from its best asset. Plus, football is being explored to help get Wichita out of MVC; the whole unit is going to move before football wanders out ahead.

I wonder if Wichita could field football, leave it in MVFC, and take its ollies to A10 or something.

(02-20-2017 02:01 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I just don't see Wichita getting its hands that dirty for football, because it will take away from its best asset. Plus, football is being explored to help get Wichita out of MVC; the whole unit is going to move before football wanders out ahead.

I wonder if Wichita could field football, leave it in MVFC, and take its ollies to A10 or something.

The Atlantic 10 is not interested in WSU at this time.

If the AAC loses UConn, then it might be interested in WSU without football, which gets WSU where it wants to be without having to restart football.

I know in their perfect world, WSU would love to be Wichita in basketball and Tulsa in football, and in Tulsa's conference for both sports. But that would take a lot of money.

(02-20-2017 02:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 02:01 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I just don't see Wichita getting its hands that dirty for football, because it will take away from its best asset. Plus, football is being explored to help get Wichita out of MVC; the whole unit is going to move before football wanders out ahead.

I wonder if Wichita could field football, leave it in MVFC, and take its ollies to A10 or something.

The Atlantic 10 is not interested in WSU at this time.

I've heard they aren't interested in moving any further west than where they presently are, and have grown enough over the years with mixed results.

If there isn't interest now, I'll wait to see what happens if someone like Dayton or VCU are ever wooed away. I know there are some in that conference who expect it to be a major contributor to college basketball, and not a place for freeloaders to just hang out with good programs.

(02-20-2017 03:34 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 02:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 02:01 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I just don't see Wichita getting its hands that dirty for football, because it will take away from its best asset. Plus, football is being explored to help get Wichita out of MVC; the whole unit is going to move before football wanders out ahead.

I wonder if Wichita could field football, leave it in MVFC, and take its ollies to A10 or something.

The Atlantic 10 is not interested in WSU at this time.

I've heard they aren't interested in moving any further west than where they presently are, and have grown enough over the years with mixed results.

If there isn't interest now, I'll wait to see what happens if someone like Dayton or VCU are ever wooed away.

We will see if that happens. I still don't see what the AAC does for VCU or Dayton. Especially for an AAC that doesn't have UConn.

(02-20-2017 03:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 03:34 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 02:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 02:01 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I just don't see Wichita getting its hands that dirty for football, because it will take away from its best asset. Plus, football is being explored to help get Wichita out of MVC; the whole unit is going to move before football wanders out ahead.

I wonder if Wichita could field football, leave it in MVFC, and take its ollies to A10 or something.

The Atlantic 10 is not interested in WSU at this time.

I've heard they aren't interested in moving any further west than where they presently are, and have grown enough over the years with mixed results.

If there isn't interest now, I'll wait to see what happens if someone like Dayton or VCU are ever wooed away.

We will see if that happens. I still don't see what the AAC does for VCU or Dayton. Especially for an AAC that doesn't have UConn.

Very good point. It is almost a lateral move as it is. The A10 is having a historically down year. RIU has underperformed and the middle of the pack keeps beating one another.

BTW, how about Gibbs for Davidson? I wish they were good enough to get in the dance because that guy will be insane come March!

Still maintain that Wichita St wants more enrollment from the metroplex and Texas and Okie generally. FBS would be a nice advertising device for them. The goal is not the A10 or Big East, it's the AAC or at worst CUSA. The MVC doesn't do much for them anymore, but WSU needs football and needs a way to be FBS before the AAC or CUSA will take them. But first Wichita St needs to announce starting fb.

(02-20-2017 07:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Still maintain that Wichita St wants more enrollment from the metroplex and Texas and Okie generally. FBS would be a nice advertising device for them. The goal is not the A10 or Big East, it's the AAC or at worst CUSA. The MVC doesn't do much for them anymore, but WSU needs football and needs a way to be FBS before the AAC or CUSA will take them. But first Wichita St needs to announce starting fb.

Im starting to think that a lot of people don't know that Wichita St did have a Division 1 football program for a long while.

Cheers!

(02-20-2017 07:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 07:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Still maintain that Wichita St wants more enrollment from the metroplex and Texas and Okie generally. FBS would be a nice advertising device for them. The goal is not the A10 or Big East, it's the AAC or at worst CUSA. The MVC doesn't do much for them anymore, but WSU needs football and needs a way to be FBS before the AAC or CUSA will take them. But first Wichita St needs to announce starting fb.

Im starting to think that a lot of people don't know that Wichita St did have a Division 1 football program for a long while.

Cheers!

Know about the airplane crash, but in the 70's, Texas was not nearly as important economically and for enrollment. Wichita had a expanding aviation industry then too. Times change. If Wichita St had to do it over again, they probably would not have dropped fb.

(02-20-2017 08:02 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 07:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 07:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Still maintain that Wichita St wants more enrollment from the metroplex and Texas and Okie generally. FBS would be a nice advertising device for them. The goal is not the A10 or Big East, it's the AAC or at worst CUSA. The MVC doesn't do much for them anymore, but WSU needs football and needs a way to be FBS before the AAC or CUSA will take them. But first Wichita St needs to announce starting fb.

Im starting to think that a lot of people don't know that Wichita St did have a Division 1 football program for a long while.

Cheers!

Know about the airplane crash, but in the 70's, Texas was not nearly as important economically and for enrollment. Wichita had a expanding aviation industry then too. Times change. If Wichita St had to do it over again, they probably would not have dropped fb.

They are in an area with too many FBS schools, and too few people. OU, Ok St, KU, KSU, Tulsa, Arkansas and Memphis are too close plus Texas/Louisiana/Arkansas have added 6 FBS teams since 1987 when Wichita St ended football.

Cheers!

(02-20-2017 08:07 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 08:02 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 07:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 07:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Still maintain that Wichita St wants more enrollment from the metroplex and Texas and Okie generally. FBS would be a nice advertising device for them. The goal is not the A10 or Big East, it's the AAC or at worst CUSA. The MVC doesn't do much for them anymore, but WSU needs football and needs a way to be FBS before the AAC or CUSA will take them. But first Wichita St needs to announce starting fb.

Im starting to think that a lot of people don't know that Wichita St did have a Division 1 football program for a long while.

Cheers!

Know about the airplane crash, but in the 70's, Texas was not nearly as important economically and for enrollment. Wichita had a expanding aviation industry then too. Times change. If Wichita St had to do it over again, they probably would not have dropped fb.

They are in an area with too many FBS schools, and too few people. OU, Ok St, KU, KSU, Tulsa, Arkansas and Memphis are too close plus Texas/Louisiana/Arkansas have added 6 FBS teams since 1987 when Wichita St ended football.

Cheers!

Conveniently leaving out the fact that Texas has nearly doubled in population since 1980, and almost tripled since back in the 60s.

(02-17-2017 11:35 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Here's the thing: Liberty has so much money to back this, because they have so many online students. So while they aren't going for profit, per se, they are bringing in truck loads of cash.

It would be like if NDSU, JMU, Montana, etc had 100k undergrad students, paying tuition.

And that money can pay for lawyers too, to sue the NCAA.


That's why I think this is a special one-off, and you won't see any other schools copy this in the near future.

And to think the Sunbelt took coastal over Liberty? I guess that's why they're the Sunbelt.

(02-20-2017 08:33 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 11:35 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Here's the thing: Liberty has so much money to back this, because they have so many online students. So while they aren't going for profit, per se, they are bringing in truck loads of cash.

It would be like if NDSU, JMU, Montana, etc had 100k undergrad students, paying tuition.

And that money can pay for lawyers too, to sue the NCAA.


That's why I think this is a special one-off, and you won't see any other schools copy this in the near future.

And to think the Sunbelt took coastal over Liberty? I guess that's why they're the Sunbelt.

Its clear at this point that LU was a non-starter for the Sun Belt.

(02-20-2017 08:07 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 08:02 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 07:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 07:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Still maintain that Wichita St wants more enrollment from the metroplex and Texas and Okie generally. FBS would be a nice advertising device for them. The goal is not the A10 or Big East, it's the AAC or at worst CUSA. The MVC doesn't do much for them anymore, but WSU needs football and needs a way to be FBS before the AAC or CUSA will take them. But first Wichita St needs to announce starting fb.

Im starting to think that a lot of people don't know that Wichita St did have a Division 1 football program for a long while.

Cheers!

Know about the airplane crash, but in the 70's, Texas was not nearly as important economically and for enrollment. Wichita had a expanding aviation industry then too. Times change. If Wichita St had to do it over again, they probably would not have dropped fb.

They are in an area with too many FBS schools, and too few people. OU, Ok St, KU, KSU, Tulsa, Arkansas and Memphis are too close plus Texas/Louisiana/Arkansas have added 6 FBS teams since 1987 when Wichita St ended football.

Cheers!

I would not say that. Wichita is far away from all the schools. It is part of the pieces that fills in empty spaces on the map.

(02-17-2017 10:55 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  I know many of you are too young to remember when Independent football was not that uncommon. I actually am for it. I doubt the P5 will have issues with it because it provides more home games for them. I do see why the G5 will hate it, because it harms them more financially. My problem with the G5 argument, the is unfair for the P5 to make more money but is ok for the G5 to be against FBS independents because it could impact their profit. I a free market person, the market will bear what it wants.

Using the 15K rule for FBS and 2015 attendance. Here are my predictions on next Independents.

1. Montana 7 168,975 24,139 Strong Contender. Really should be in MWC and Replace Hawaii who should go Indy.
2. Jacksonville St. 8 164,781 20,598 Has show strong interest but finance is big question.
3. Yale 4 82,189 20,547 Does anything need to be said?
4. James Madison 7 136,483 19,498 Strong Contender. Really should be in SBC but missed the ship
5. Montana St. 6 115,032 19,172 Strong Contender. Could be start of Big Sky/WAC rehash.
6. Liberty 5 94,950 18,990 Done Deal
7. North Dakota St. 9 166,472 18,497 Should have happened with Libery
8. Southern U. 4 73,239 18,310 Finance is big question. Especially La state finances.
9. Delaware 6 94,954 15,826 Probably most surprising and deserving. Be a great fit with UMASS.
10. South Carolina St. 5 78,147 15,629 With Coastal might be hard
11. Florida A&M 4 60,240 15,060 Florida already FBS overload
12. N.C. A&T 5 74,940 14,988 NC already FBS overload doubt there is room for 8th FBS team
13. Youngstown St. 6 89,125 14,854 Similar to Delaware and is a football town. Very Marshall type program.

Montana and Montana State turned down the Big West, they turned down the WAC, there simply is no evidence that either wants FBS. More importantly if you look at the attendance of the two as a ratio of state population, they draw like Alabama and Auburn. It just isn't likely that becoming FBS draws in enough fans to justify the move and that's before addressing the probability that such a move costs them a win or two (or more) per year. They sell winning.

Jacksonville State, is almost exactly the same size as Louisiana Monroe, the most under-funded program in FBS. It is unlikely they have the resources to fund the move and fund the scheduling required. Getting four FBS schools to come in and a full scholarship FCS every year is a significant challenge and unlike Liberty they don't have the TV access.

Yale. Moving FBS requires awarding 200 athletic scholarships. That is incompatible with their identity.

James Madison. Like Liberty they sit in a high concentration area of FBS schools. Scheduling is much more feasible. The challenge as an independent would be cost with the state imposing financing limits.

NDSU might be able to tap effectively into the Fox Regional Sports Net system because there isn't a lot of competing content in the region (that wouldn't be a revenue source but at least provides exposure), the problem becomes financing and whether they can increase attendance enough for the move to make financial sense.

Southern actually looked at a move in the late 90's. There was a proposal to get Southern and a few other SWAC's to join with schools that became the Sun Belt to feed the champion to the proposed Mobile Bowl. The loss of Classics and traditional rivalries was deemed to be too much a strain.

Delaware if they have the resources make a lot of sense, as long as they can fund but they've been approached over the years and never shown interest. In the cable/satellite/online universe they make more sense. There has never been a stand alone TV market in the state but the market era has long passed. Their issue is simply a question of resources and with state schools that is always a significant question.

SC State I simply don't know enough particulars there to comment.

Florida A&M very nearly became a member of the Sun Belt. They had declared their intention to join FBS and the Sun Belt was quite intrigued. They visited saw the state of facilities and lost enthusiasm. Once they had the chance to look at the books the league fled the city ASAP. If things are financially better and they have the resources, maybe they can pull it off.

NC A&T, another I don't know enough about.

Youngstown. Can they fund it? Can they get the games?

(02-20-2017 08:33 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 11:35 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Here's the thing: Liberty has so much money to back this, because they have so many online students. So while they aren't going for profit, per se, they are bringing in truck loads of cash.

It would be like if NDSU, JMU, Montana, etc had 100k undergrad students, paying tuition.

And that money can pay for lawyers too, to sue the NCAA.


That's why I think this is a special one-off, and you won't see any other schools copy this in the near future.

And to think the Sunbelt took coastal over Liberty? I guess that's why they're the Sunbelt.

You talking about the Sun Belt conference that finished ahead of CUSA in the football rankings (finished third in the CFP distribution vs CUSA's 5th) and is 13th in RPI vs 25th for CUSA?

You can be smug about being in the conference that a lot of great schools were once a member of but hell the Southern and Missouri Valley can say the same.

The school has a reported 100,000 online students. They are private. They would be the lowest rated university in the Sun Belt academically.

Athletically they are inferior to Coastal in baseball, football, and basketball.

All in all sounds like Liberty should have been at the top of the CUSA expansion list since they are flash without a lot of results.

I'd like to think CUSA would take JMU before Liberty.