(02-18-2017 12:50 PM)Gallia Cat Wrote:  

(02-18-2017 12:18 PM)axeme Wrote:  One hopes in Liberty's pursuit of the football golden ring they don't become like Baylor and fill their athletic department and administration with morally reprehensible people who will trade their Christianity in for nationally ranked teams. Baylor wears their Christianity on their sleeve, but are not really Christian at all in practice. At least the secular universities don't make the pretense of claiming some moral high ground.

I think we need to be careful questing people's Christianity or whatever faith they follow. When you question someone's belief you seem to imply that you process the ability to actually look right into someone's mind, heart and soul. No one has that ability. Most people also do not walk in absolute lockstep with every fundamental belief of ones religion. The very small percentage that do are those that often live on the fringe. For example not all Catholics are pro-life and anti birth control but that does not give anyone the right to question their overall commitment to their faith. Same goes for Muslims, Mormons, Christians, Jews, etc. Same for people that consider themselves to be atheist.

How about we just focus on Liberty's pursuit of achieving FBS status. I wouldn't mind seeing OU schedule Liberty at some point.

I'd be happy to hear how the systemic corruption of their football program, athletic department and university administration as it has been publicly demonstrated over the last 5-6 years follows any religions' moral tenets, especially Christian. I won't pretend to know what is in anyone individual's heart, and know that anyone can fail in the moment, but leaders there showed a vile, cynical, and despicable disregard for basic decency and justice, all in the name of protecting the football brand. They clearly are about money and winning football games and not much else. Trying to brand the institution as "Christian " while they do this beneath contempt. Their institutional actions are a mockery of Christianity. And they still haven't truly owned up to the crimes committed under their watch that they were fully aware of. It's been a steady parade of coverup, blame the whistleblowers and the victims, stonewalling.

My point in this thread is that Baylor used to be a religion-first school and then decided to get into the football fast lane. It's a cautionary tale for Liberty.

Turner Gill is their head coach

(02-18-2017 01:12 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  An example that comes to mind for me is the fact that Jerry Falwell Jr. censors the Liberty U. student newspaper as he sees fit.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...ump-column

I don't want to be in conference with a school like that.

Oh yea, cause you never see secular school presidentds censor their school news paper as they see fit..

Northern Michigan University, the student newspaper's board of directors ousted its adviser, Cheryl Reed, and denied the promotion of a student from managing editor to editor in chief. According to the report, these decisions followed “attempts by student journalists to aggressively cover the administration.”

Fairmont State University, in West Virginia, administrators removed a newspaper adviser in 2015 after the paper published a two-part story investigating mold on campus, the report asserts.

Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, President Wingfield condemned The Star for ''negative'' reporting, and later removed the newspaper's adviser, Jerry Thompson, from his post.

(02-18-2017 06:42 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-18-2017 01:12 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  An example that comes to mind for me is the fact that Jerry Falwell Jr. censors the Liberty U. student newspaper as he sees fit.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...ump-column

I don't want to be in conference with a school like that.

Oh yea, cause you never see secular school presidentds censor their school news paper as they see fit..

Northern Michigan University, the student newspaper's board of directors ousted its adviser, Cheryl Reed, and denied the promotion of a student from managing editor to editor in chief. According to the report, these decisions followed “attempts by student journalists to aggressively cover the administration.”

Fairmont State University, in West Virginia, administrators removed a newspaper adviser in 2015 after the paper published a two-part story investigating mold on campus, the report asserts.

Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, President Wingfield condemned The Star for ''negative'' reporting, and later removed the newspaper's adviser, Jerry Thompson, from his post.

Didn't stop the Star from being negative about the sports teams, that's for sure.

(02-18-2017 06:42 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-18-2017 01:12 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  An example that comes to mind for me is the fact that Jerry Falwell Jr. censors the Liberty U. student newspaper as he sees fit.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...ump-column

I don't want to be in conference with a school like that.

Oh yea, cause you never see secular school presidentds censor their school news paper as they see fit..

Northern Michigan University, the student newspaper's board of directors ousted its adviser, Cheryl Reed, and denied the promotion of a student from managing editor to editor in chief. According to the report, these decisions followed “attempts by student journalists to aggressively cover the administration.”

Fairmont State University, in West Virginia, administrators removed a newspaper adviser in 2015 after the paper published a two-part story investigating mold on campus, the report asserts.

Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, President Wingfield condemned The Star for ''negative'' reporting, and later removed the newspaper's adviser, Jerry Thompson, from his post.

Not proud moments for any of these schools, but not the same. In none of those cases was a university president literally reading the student newspaper and removing content before it was even published.

Also, your Northern Illinois example was from 1986. Moreover, in that case, it looks as if the community was so angry with Wingfield that the board of trustees forced him to resign less than a year after he was hired.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-...dent-reign

(02-18-2017 07:53 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Not proud moments for any of these schools, but not the same.

Of course it's not.... Why would they be.

Quote:In none of those cases was a university president literally reading the student newspaper and removing content before it was even published.

And doing it before vs removing the staff after is substantially different how?

Quote:Also, your Northern Illinois example was from 1986

Ok so in 20 years what Liberty did will not matter, gotcha...

Quote:Moreover, in that case, it looks as if the community was so angry with Wingfield that the board of trustees forced him to resign less than a year after he was hired.

Let me ask... How many examples of this happening at universities, how many examples of massive political censorship at state universities, would I have to find for you to stop trying to make excuses?

See I have a theory. It goes like this.

Because Liberty is an evangelical school which does not run away from it's religious background many see anything they do is automatically "worse" than a similar, if not identical, transgression at a secular school.

(02-18-2017 08:44 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-18-2017 07:53 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Not proud moments for any of these schools, but not the same.

Of course it's not.... Why would they be.

Quote:In none of those cases was a university president literally reading the student newspaper and removing content before it was even published.

And doing it before vs removing the staff after is substantially different how?

Quote:Also, your Northern Illinois example was from 1986

Ok so in 20 years what Liberty did will not matter, gotcha...

Quote:Moreover, in that case, it looks as if the community was so angry with Wingfield that the board of trustees forced him to resign less than a year after he was hired.

Let me ask... How many examples of this happening at universities, how many examples of massive political censorship at state universities, would I have to find for you to stop trying to make excuses?

See I have a theory. It goes like this.

Because Liberty is an evangelical school which does not run away from it's religious background many see anything they do is automatically "worse" than a similar, if not identical, transgression at a secular school.

AMEN

(02-18-2017 08:44 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-18-2017 07:53 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Not proud moments for any of these schools, but not the same.

Of course it's not.... Why would they be.

Quote:In none of those cases was a university president literally reading the student newspaper and removing content before it was even published.

And doing it before vs removing the staff after is substantially different how?

Quote:Also, your Northern Illinois example was from 1986

Ok so in 20 years what Liberty did will not matter, gotcha...

Quote:Moreover, in that case, it looks as if the community was so angry with Wingfield that the board of trustees forced him to resign less than a year after he was hired.

Let me ask... How many examples of this happening at universities, how many examples of massive political censorship at state universities, would I have to find for you to stop trying to make excuses?

See I have a theory. It goes like this.

Because Liberty is an evangelical school which does not run away from it's religious background many see anything they do is automatically "worse" than a similar, if not identical, transgression at a secular school.

2016-1986=20?

Let me take the view from 30,000 feet.

MAC is a group of public universities of similar size, similar geographical area, similar budgets, similar athletic budgets and interests, etc. etc.

Liberty does not meet the profile. Notre Dame* does not meet the profile. Hillsdale College (small, private college in MI) does not meet the profile, but neither does Saginaw Valley State U (public college in the thumb area of MI).

One does not and should not accept any suitor who comes knocking.

I have long been a lukewarm to warm advocate of expansion, but I'd only want two more FB only teams from the SAME REGION. I support schools like UMass, UConn, Army, and Stony Brook (if they ever want to go FBS) because they would extend the MAC eastward in a sensible way.

IF the MAC commish wanted to add NDSU and say IL. State they would meet my criteria. It would strengthen the MAC in the Midwest.

They all seem a good fit. UCF does not because of location. Neither does Idaho... Lol. Rutgers, Lol, because it doesn't fit with huge budgets, etc.

* Do remember when there was talk of ND to the Big Ten and then we discovered it would have been a match made in hell, not heaven. ND invited Obama and set off a civil war within the university and the Catholic Church. UofMichigan and ND would have been the biggest odd couple since since...

(02-19-2017 07:48 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Let me take the view from 30,000 feet.

MAC is a group of public universities of similar size, similar geographical area, similar budgets, similar athletic budgets and interests, etc. etc.

Liberty does not meet the profile. Notre Dame* does not meet the profile. Hillsdale College (small, private college in MI) does not meet the profile, but neither does Saginaw Valley State U (public college in the thumb area of MI).

One does not and should not accept any suitor who comes knocking.

I have long been a lukewarm to warm advocate of expansion, but I'd only want two more FB only teams from the SAME REGION. I support schools like UMass, UConn, Army, and Stony Brook (if they ever want to go FBS) because they would extend the MAC eastward in a sensible way.

IF the MAC commish wanted to add NDSU and say IL. State they would meet my criteria. It would strengthen the MAC in the Midwest.

They all seem a good fit. UCF does not because of location. Neither does Idaho... Lol. Rutgers, Lol, because it doesn't fit with huge budgets, etc.

* Do remember when there was talk of ND to the Big Ten and then we discovered it would have been a match made in hell, not heaven. ND invited Obama and set off a civil war within the university and the Catholic Church. UofMichigan and ND would have been the biggest odd couple since since...

Well yes and no.

I agree Liberty does not bring enough of anything to be worth adding to the MAC. They are out of our footprint and they would dilute the revenue stream for the football playoff.

The fact they are not in the mid west is besides the point. UMass and UConn are not in the mid west.

NDSU has the same problems as Liberty. They are very far from the rest of the conference and they dilute the money. And they don't add anything.

But at least you're not attacking the school's integrity or mission as part of the reason not to include them.

Toledo has played Liberty a few times and it's one of the FCS schools that I wouldn't have minded playing away. Now we can schedule a home-and-home with them.

I am not sure why the tone of this thread shifted towards whether or not Liberty would be a good fit for the MAC. We're going independent, and for the foreseeable future. The MAC didn't invite us previously, and won't now, or ever. No worries. We aren't asking for a MAC invite.


Having said that, one thing the leftist leaning members of this board should remember about Liberty moving forward: the MAC states went red, and there is much disdain from the everyday American concerning the SJW's and sensitive snowflakes on college campuses. The UAW worker who voted staunch Democrat over the years is sick and tired of the nonsense the left is peddling on college campuses. He doesn't recognize this New Democratic Party, and he left en masse in 2016. You're asking automotive guys to support a radical agenda that looks nothing like traditional Ohio and Michigan. These are blue-collar states. That isn't going to change anytime soon.

And Liberty is a non-elitist, blue-collar university with an average SAT score of 1070. We (the aforementioned red states and Liberty) have much in common, unless of course you're far left of center and isolated in the tower. In which case, California will welcome you - you have few friends in Ohio or Michigan.

It's looking & sounding like this thread has reached a natural conclusion, no? Liberty gets to move up, may or may not end up being a good decision for them, neither we nor they want them in the MAC...moving on...

(02-17-2017 11:08 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(02-17-2017 09:34 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 11:26 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

Quote:On top of that they have an academic reputation that is more heavilly influenced by religion than most of the schools that you may think of that is not always well received.

What does that even mean?

They teach young earth creationism alongside biology. Personally, I don't like my science getting mixed up with that ideology.

I'm also not a fan of their concealed carry policy on campus. But this might be more appropriate for the spinroom, so I'll leave it at that! : )

Then you shouldn't have mentioned it at all.

Excuse me for expressing my opinion. Besides it looks like this thread got political anyway.

(02-19-2017 11:28 AM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  ...
Having said that, one thing the leftist leaning members of this board should remember about Liberty moving forward: the MAC states went red, and there is much disdain from the everyday American concerning the SJW's and sensitive snowflakes on college campuses. The UAW worker who voted staunch Democrat over the years is sick and tired of the nonsense the left is peddling on college campuses. He doesn't recognize this New Democratic Party, and he left en masse in 2016. You're asking automotive guys to support a radical agenda that looks nothing like traditional Ohio and Michigan. These are blue-collar states. That isn't going to change anytime soon.

And Liberty is a non-elitist, blue-collar university with an average SAT score of 1070. We (the aforementioned red states and Liberty) have much in common, unless of course you're far left of center and isolated in the tower. In which case, California will welcome you - you have few friends in Ohio or Michigan.

I'm NOT the one who gave Trump his info on the Electoral College for his press conference. [I've been following the Electoral College since high school.]

Using the EMU Steve verified electoral map, Clinton won N.Y. (Buffalo) and Illinois (NIU). Trump won Ohio, Michigan and Indiana.

FDR packed the (Supreme) Court. If we add UConn and UMass we will have 'packed' the MAC electoral college to give Clinton a 4 - 3 advantage after re-assessing the MAC electoral college map for expansion...

(02-19-2017 01:24 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-19-2017 11:28 AM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  ...
Having said that, one thing the leftist leaning members of this board should remember about Liberty moving forward: the MAC states went red, and there is much disdain from the everyday American concerning the SJW's and sensitive snowflakes on college campuses. The UAW worker who voted staunch Democrat over the years is sick and tired of the nonsense the left is peddling on college campuses. He doesn't recognize this New Democratic Party, and he left en masse in 2016. You're asking automotive guys to support a radical agenda that looks nothing like traditional Ohio and Michigan. These are blue-collar states. That isn't going to change anytime soon.

And Liberty is a non-elitist, blue-collar university with an average SAT score of 1070. We (the aforementioned red states and Liberty) have much in common, unless of course you're far left of center and isolated in the tower. In which case, California will welcome you - you have few friends in Ohio or Michigan.

I'm NOT the one who gave Trump his info on the Electoral College for his press conference. [I've been following the Electoral College since high school.]

Using the EMU Steve verified electoral map, Clinton won N.Y. (Buffalo) and Illinois (NIU). Trump won Ohio, Michigan and Indiana.

FDR packed the (Supreme) Court. If we add UConn and UMass we will have 'packed' the MAC electoral college to give Clinton a 4 - 3 advantage after re-assessing the MAC electoral college map for expansion...

I was more so just commenting on the fact that SJWs and delicate snowflakes have little in common with MAC culture, and especially MAC football fans. If there were ever a sport where trigger warnings and safe spaces were ridiculed by the fan base, it would and should be football.

(02-19-2017 11:28 AM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  I am not sure why the tone of this thread shifted towards whether or not Liberty would be a good fit for the MAC. We're going independent, and for the foreseeable future. The MAC didn't invite us previously, and won't now, or ever. No worries. We aren't asking for a MAC invite.


Having said that, one thing the leftist leaning members of this board should remember about Liberty moving forward: the MAC states went red, and there is much disdain from the everyday American concerning the SJW's and sensitive snowflakes on college campuses. The UAW worker who voted staunch Democrat over the years is sick and tired of the nonsense the left is peddling on college campuses. He doesn't recognize this New Democratic Party, and he left en masse in 2016. You're asking automotive guys to support a radical agenda that looks nothing like traditional Ohio and Michigan. These are blue-collar states. That isn't going to change anytime soon.

And Liberty is a non-elitist, blue-collar university with an average SAT score of 1070. We (the aforementioned red states and Liberty) have much in common, unless of course you're far left of center and isolated in the tower. In which case, California will welcome you - you have few friends in Ohio or Michigan.

Do you believe in creationism?

(02-19-2017 04:09 PM)niubrad00 Wrote:  

(02-19-2017 11:28 AM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  I am not sure why the tone of this thread shifted towards whether or not Liberty would be a good fit for the MAC. We're going independent, and for the foreseeable future. The MAC didn't invite us previously, and won't now, or ever. No worries. We aren't asking for a MAC invite.


Having said that, one thing the leftist leaning members of this board should remember about Liberty moving forward: the MAC states went red, and there is much disdain from the everyday American concerning the SJW's and sensitive snowflakes on college campuses. The UAW worker who voted staunch Democrat over the years is sick and tired of the nonsense the left is peddling on college campuses. He doesn't recognize this New Democratic Party, and he left en masse in 2016. You're asking automotive guys to support a radical agenda that looks nothing like traditional Ohio and Michigan. These are blue-collar states. That isn't going to change anytime soon.

And Liberty is a non-elitist, blue-collar university with an average SAT score of 1070. We (the aforementioned red states and Liberty) have much in common, unless of course you're far left of center and isolated in the tower. In which case, California will welcome you - you have few friends in Ohio or Michigan.

Do you believe in creationism?

Its not just does he believe in it or not but does he believe it should be taught in science class as if it is actual science.

I want nothing to with a so called "university" that commits academic fraud on this scale.

(02-19-2017 04:36 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(02-19-2017 04:09 PM)niubrad00 Wrote:  

(02-19-2017 11:28 AM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  I am not sure why the tone of this thread shifted towards whether or not Liberty would be a good fit for the MAC. We're going independent, and for the foreseeable future. The MAC didn't invite us previously, and won't now, or ever. No worries. We aren't asking for a MAC invite.


Having said that, one thing the leftist leaning members of this board should remember about Liberty moving forward: the MAC states went red, and there is much disdain from the everyday American concerning the SJW's and sensitive snowflakes on college campuses. The UAW worker who voted staunch Democrat over the years is sick and tired of the nonsense the left is peddling on college campuses. He doesn't recognize this New Democratic Party, and he left en masse in 2016. You're asking automotive guys to support a radical agenda that looks nothing like traditional Ohio and Michigan. These are blue-collar states. That isn't going to change anytime soon.

And Liberty is a non-elitist, blue-collar university with an average SAT score of 1070. We (the aforementioned red states and Liberty) have much in common, unless of course you're far left of center and isolated in the tower. In which case, California will welcome you - you have few friends in Ohio or Michigan.

Do you believe in creationism?

Its not just does he believe in it or not but does he believe it should be taught in science class as if it is actual science.

I want nothing to with a so called "university" that commits academic fraud on this scale.

Agreed. Lynchburg is only a three hour drive for me yet I wouldn't pay a dime to see Ohio play there if they ever scheduled them.