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Liberty to FBS
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #141
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-17-2017 09:58 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 06:31 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  I'm not sure whether more Idaho fans are on suicide watch or homicide watch right now.

Liberty has a few things Idaho does not. The main thing, they have money, lots of money. They also have better facilities and are located in a better location (see population center). Plus, didn't they just hire the AD from Baylor who oversaw the rape culture? Maybe they are looking for a Big 12 invite?

Oh, I'm hard-pressed to think of many things Idaho and Liberty have in common. But since the Big Sky is a worse financial move than FBS Indy, plus the U of I community other than the President and a few people who don't know the difference and don't contribute has no interest in that conference, plus Liberty's move is going to make it easier to schedule as an Independent, Idaho fans are a little salty right now.
02-17-2017 11:09 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #142
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-17-2017 11:02 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 10:42 AM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:19 PM)luvyosef Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 05:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  UConn (nor UMass) will likely never schedule Liberty, nor will Cal, Texas, Michigan, Virginia, Duke, UNC, Georgia, Florida, Wisconsin, Stanford, Kansas, Missouri, Miami, Tennessee, or any number of liberal leaning campuses (e.g., the Ohio and Michigan MAC schools). It's just inviting protests and controversy. If there is one thing University Presidents want to avoid it is campus wide protests - whether real or imagined. I can see Conferences like the P12, B1G and ACC quietly instituting a black listing of Liberty, without ever saying anything in public. GCU ran into that with the Pac-12, Liberty could see a national version of that.

As for UConn an Independent, it requires FOX to come up with a package similar to Army has from CBS or BYU from ESPN, along with Bowl access and help scheduling a few P5 opponents (maybe an annual neutral game guaranteed in Foxborough or Fenway, or Yankee Stadium or Meadowlands; I do think the B1G would be open to help, given the FOX connection). But does FOX want to bother? That is a lot of extra work for adding one BE school. Unless and until FOX decides to do that, this is just fan talk, going nowhere.

So in other words "liberalism" actually means throw a tantrum because some other entity has a different point of view? I would venture to the one poster who coined "conservative ignorance" that we call actions that you are describing as what may happen nothing but "leftist" ignorance.

Your first sentence actually defined liberalism.

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]

People that get pissy when someone wishes them Happy Holidays shouldn't call others whiners. But UVA and Liberty play regularly in baseball. I think the politics is being overblown. I don't share their views but I know plenty of Liberty Alumni and look forward to a short trip to Lynchburg to see the Monarchs play. Joining a conference with them is different than an OOC game and I don't think it''ll be as big of a deal as some are making it.
02-17-2017 11:14 AM
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domer1978 Offline
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Post: #143
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-17-2017 11:14 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 11:02 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 10:42 AM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:19 PM)luvyosef Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 05:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  UConn (nor UMass) will likely never schedule Liberty, nor will Cal, Texas, Michigan, Virginia, Duke, UNC, Georgia, Florida, Wisconsin, Stanford, Kansas, Missouri, Miami, Tennessee, or any number of liberal leaning campuses (e.g., the Ohio and Michigan MAC schools). It's just inviting protests and controversy. If there is one thing University Presidents want to avoid it is campus wide protests - whether real or imagined. I can see Conferences like the P12, B1G and ACC quietly instituting a black listing of Liberty, without ever saying anything in public. GCU ran into that with the Pac-12, Liberty could see a national version of that.

As for UConn an Independent, it requires FOX to come up with a package similar to Army has from CBS or BYU from ESPN, along with Bowl access and help scheduling a few P5 opponents (maybe an annual neutral game guaranteed in Foxborough or Fenway, or Yankee Stadium or Meadowlands; I do think the B1G would be open to help, given the FOX connection). But does FOX want to bother? That is a lot of extra work for adding one BE school. Unless and until FOX decides to do that, this is just fan talk, going nowhere.

So in other words "liberalism" actually means throw a tantrum because some other entity has a different point of view? I would venture to the one poster who coined "conservative ignorance" that we call actions that you are describing as what may happen nothing but "leftist" ignorance.

Your first sentence actually defined liberalism.

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]

People that get pissy when someone wishes them Happy Holidays shouldn't call others whiners. But UVA and Liberty play regularly in baseball. I think the politics is being overblown. I don't share their views but I know plenty of Liberty Alumni and look forward to a short trip to Lynchburg to see the Monarchs play. Joining a conference with them is different than an OOC game and I don't think it''ll be as big of a deal as some are making it.

I don't get "pissy" about it, I just say Merry Christmas. Just like if I use the word fag or homo or the like don't get pissy about it(which I don't use ).
[Image: unnamed%2B%25286%2529%2B%25281%2529.jpg]
[Image: Pronoun-cards-2016-02-1024x585.png]
[Image: racist-clothing-777x437.jpg]

Above is comedy....Lol... Thanks liberals for all the laughs!
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2017 11:56 AM by domer1978.)
02-17-2017 11:49 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #144
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-16-2017 06:34 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  We just opened up your long sought after path to FBS and you are cheering against us? Interesting.

You didn't open anything.

Liberty -- by far -- has a very unique situation among to FCS programs: no one else has 100k undergrads paying tuition, to finance such a move. I might be exaggerating somewhat, but the point is correct. No other school has nearly the cash to just snap their fingers and do this, especially as an independent. (or to pay the lawyers to sue the NCAA)


(02-16-2017 07:19 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The situation looks bleak for FCS. No self respecting FCS school will want to stay if the division loses five or ten top attendance teams.

Even if that were true, and that were the case ... how many of those "self-respecting" FCS schools could afford a move up????? Very few.


(02-16-2017 07:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Well you've got your path to FBS, if you want it. And you think you can schedule it.

If only it were free!


(02-16-2017 10:08 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Somehow I doubt that Liberty will have any trouble setting a schedule.

Maybe.

P5 aren't going to play at Liberty, even for 3-for-1 deals.

Liberty has to try to get G5 teams to come to Lynchburg. Could offer them 2-for-1's, or could offer them straight cash. I personally hope no G5 take the deal, but as a Minnesota fan you learn very quickly that you rarely get what you want.

One thing going for me, at least, is that FBS schedules (in particular P5) are often scheduled well far in advance. So maybe there just aren't that many opportunities for 2018. But one "easy" target for Liberty will be FBS independents. It just has to get NM St, UMass, and Army to come to Lynchburg in 2018.

It will get more interesting for 2019.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2017 12:01 PM by MplsBison.)
02-17-2017 11:59 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #145
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-17-2017 11:59 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 06:34 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  We just opened up your long sought after path to FBS and you are cheering against us? Interesting.

You didn't open anything.

Liberty -- by far -- has a very unique situation among to FCS programs: no one else has 100k undergrads paying tuition, to finance such a move. I might be exaggerating somewhat, but the point is correct. No other school has nearly the cash to just snap their fingers and do this, especially as an independent. (or to pay the lawyers to sue the NCAA)


(02-16-2017 07:19 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The situation looks bleak for FCS. No self respecting FCS school will want to stay if the division loses five or ten top attendance teams.

Even if that were true, and that were the case ... how many of those "self-respecting" FCS schools could afford a move up????? Very few.


(02-16-2017 07:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Well you've got your path to FBS, if you want it. And you think you can schedule it.

If only it were free!


(02-16-2017 10:08 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Somehow I doubt that Liberty will have any trouble setting a schedule.

Maybe.

P5 aren't going to play at Liberty, even for 3-for-1 deals.

Liberty has to try to get G5 teams to come to Lynchburg. Could offer them 2-for-1's, or could offer them straight cash. I personally hope no G5 take the deal, but as a Minnesota fan you learn very quickly that you rarely get what you want.

One thing going for me, at least, is that FBS schedules (in particular P5) are often scheduled well far in advance. So maybe there just aren't that many opportunities for 2018. But one "easy" target for Liberty will be FBS independents. It just has to get NM St, UMass, and Army to come to Lynchburg in 2018.

It will get more interesting for 2019.

Regarding scheduling, if I'm Liberty, I'd have some Transgendered access plan for visiting fans. My strong advice is to not do it in a way that humiliates the Trans community. This wasn't an issue in the past, but times change, as BYU can attest. Remember that there are LGBT student, faculty and alumni groups at most, if not all, of the schools LU will seek to schedule. LU's stated ban on Jews and married LGBT persons in all athletic employment is going to cause problems too.

I can see UMass having internal pushback with playing LU if changes aren't made. If desperate, they'll play them, but if there's pushback, it could cause issues. UMass has 11 games and 6 road games scheduled for 2018, BTW. Army has 11 games schedules and 6 of them are away from West Point. Neither BYU nor ND have slots now.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2017 12:21 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
02-17-2017 12:15 PM
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MinerInWisconsin Offline
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Post: #146
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-17-2017 12:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 11:59 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 06:34 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  We just opened up your long sought after path to FBS and you are cheering against us? Interesting.

You didn't open anything.

Liberty -- by far -- has a very unique situation among to FCS programs: no one else has 100k undergrads paying tuition, to finance such a move. I might be exaggerating somewhat, but the point is correct. No other school has nearly the cash to just snap their fingers and do this, especially as an independent. (or to pay the lawyers to sue the NCAA)


(02-16-2017 07:19 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The situation looks bleak for FCS. No self respecting FCS school will want to stay if the division loses five or ten top attendance teams.

Even if that were true, and that were the case ... how many of those "self-respecting" FCS schools could afford a move up????? Very few.


(02-16-2017 07:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Well you've got your path to FBS, if you want it. And you think you can schedule it.

If only it were free!


(02-16-2017 10:08 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Somehow I doubt that Liberty will have any trouble setting a schedule.

Maybe.

P5 aren't going to play at Liberty, even for 3-for-1 deals.

Liberty has to try to get G5 teams to come to Lynchburg. Could offer them 2-for-1's, or could offer them straight cash. I personally hope no G5 take the deal, but as a Minnesota fan you learn very quickly that you rarely get what you want.

One thing going for me, at least, is that FBS schedules (in particular P5) are often scheduled well far in advance. So maybe there just aren't that many opportunities for 2018. But one "easy" target for Liberty will be FBS independents. It just has to get NM St, UMass, and Army to come to Lynchburg in 2018.

It will get more interesting for 2019.

Regarding scheduling, if I'm Liberty, I'd have some Transgendered access plan for visiting fans. My strong advice is to not do it in a way that humiliates the Trans community. This wasn't an issue in the past, but times change, as BYU can attest. Remember that there are LGBT student, faculty and alumni groups at most, if not all, of the schools LU will seek to schedule. LU's stated ban on Jews and married LGBT persons in all athletic employment is going to cause problems too.

I can see UMass having internal pushback with playing LU if changes aren't made. If desperate, they'll play them, but if there's pushback, it could cause issues. UMass has 11 games and 6 road games scheduled for 2018, BTW. Army has 11 games schedules and 6 of them are away from West Point. Neither BYU nor ND have slots now.

There should be no plan at all to deal with bathrooms. Transgender people just go to the bathroom that suits the way they look, for the most part. No reason to do anything about that. Homosexual people use the bathroom according to the way they look as well. I have never noticed someone that looks decidedly like a woman going into the men's room or vice versa.
02-17-2017 12:25 PM
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MJG Offline
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Post: #147
RE: Liberty to FBS
According to a Liberty fan they offered the SBC ten million for Coastal's spot.
The offer backfired because conference members worried they would outspend everyone in the conference.
They have their own TV network that has to help scheduling .
02-17-2017 12:33 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #148
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-17-2017 12:33 PM)MJG Wrote:  According to a Liberty fan they offered the SBC ten million for Coastal's spot.
The offer backfired because conference members worried they would outspend everyone in the conference.
They have their own TV network that has to help scheduling .

I think a fear was that the ten million would have been offset by others stopping donations as well.

I'm not sure that LU's network is really that desirable. Who wants to have the game televised on channel 23,457? I'd rather have my games on ESPN3 than BeIn. And I can find BeIn on my cable lineup.
02-17-2017 12:47 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #149
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-17-2017 10:26 AM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 05:02 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 04:53 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  This is a lawsuit averted more than anything else. I think it nudges the P5 a little closer to their own division, given the weakness of the NCAA to be any kind of a barrier.

It will be interesting to see if hey can schedule. Will Falwell try to sue schools that refuse to schedule the Flames?

It's funny, because this move, overdue and well done on Liberty's behalf, I might say, was probably done with a lawyer threatening to sue if the NCAA didn't allow it.

If nobody schedules them, they'll have a lawyer ready for that, too.

And in both cases, they are right to.

These move-up's used to have a bit more merit to them. If Rutgers started the trend against that, Coastal was a step ahead (and there's nothing against either, good job to both for getting there). Folks at these football schools want this to reflect a business, then go right to institutional politics and pettiness when it comes down to it. Liberty's story the last decade or so with CAAF and SoCon. Same for Coastal. **** those conferences.

The rules stink. The politics are putrid.

I am no fan of that institution, but the enemy of my enemy is my ally in this one. Good luck, Liberty. You're going to need it.

Actually you're wrong on the second point. You cannot force performance - you can't make anyone play Liberty on the field. Slavery and indentured servitude is illegal in the US.

Liberty was justified in your first point. NCAA had little chance of forcing schools to stay down. But a court may also see that in cases other than Liberty that the NCAA is trying to save schools from themselves. NCAA is blocking the schools from losing millions of dollars each season.

It's not a matter of Liberty forcing itself onto schedules, but getting to the heart of why they might be resisted. If Liberty is shunned again, I think they're within their right to explore their legal options. Enough of the conference shenanigans from CAA, SoCon, and Sun Belt, where Liberty had a lot of its competitors over the years beat in terms of financial and departmental infrastructure, program readiness, fan support...all the stuff that made Liberty a clear winner from the business side of operations, to see them overlooked for nothing more than "they don't have the votes."

Well, why don't they have the votes? It's one of the worst kept secrets in NCAA Division 1.

The folks over on AGS are having a lot of fun with this. To hear it from them over there, once Coastal got the nod, and then suffered its resistance with the football stadium, that pretty much did it for Liberty and their patience.

There used to be a component of merit with this stuff. That's getting tossed out the window now.
02-17-2017 01:42 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #150
RE: Liberty to FBS
Too bad, Bish.

You can't sue someone for not liking you. End of story
02-17-2017 01:44 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #151
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-17-2017 01:42 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-17-2017 10:26 AM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 05:02 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 04:53 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  This is a lawsuit averted more than anything else. I think it nudges the P5 a little closer to their own division, given the weakness of the NCAA to be any kind of a barrier.

It will be interesting to see if hey can schedule. Will Falwell try to sue schools that refuse to schedule the Flames?

It's funny, because this move, overdue and well done on Liberty's behalf, I might say, was probably done with a lawyer threatening to sue if the NCAA didn't allow it.

If nobody schedules them, they'll have a lawyer ready for that, too.

And in both cases, they are right to.

These move-up's used to have a bit more merit to them. If Rutgers started the trend against that, Coastal was a step ahead (and there's nothing against either, good job to both for getting there). Folks at these football schools want this to reflect a business, then go right to institutional politics and pettiness when it comes down to it. Liberty's story the last decade or so with CAAF and SoCon. Same for Coastal. **** those conferences.

The rules stink. The politics are putrid.

I am no fan of that institution, but the enemy of my enemy is my ally in this one. Good luck, Liberty. You're going to need it.

Actually you're wrong on the second point. You cannot force performance - you can't make anyone play Liberty on the field. Slavery and indentured servitude is illegal in the US.

Liberty was justified in your first point. NCAA had little chance of forcing schools to stay down. But a court may also see that in cases other than Liberty that the NCAA is trying to save schools from themselves. NCAA is blocking the schools from losing millions of dollars each season.

It's not a matter of Liberty forcing itself onto schedules, but getting to the heart of why they might be resisted. If Liberty is shunned again, I think they're within their right to explore their legal options. Enough of the conference shenanigans from CAA, SoCon, and Sun Belt, where Liberty had a lot of its competitors over the years beat in terms of financial and departmental infrastructure, program readiness, fan support...all the stuff that made Liberty a clear winner from the business side of operations, to see them overlooked for nothing more than "they don't have the votes."

Well, why don't they have the votes? It's one of the worst kept secrets in NCAA Division 1.

The folks over on AGS are having a lot of fun with this. To hear it from them over there, once Coastal got the nod, and then suffered its resistance with the football stadium, that pretty much did it for Liberty and their patience.

There used to be a component of merit with this stuff. That's getting tossed out the window now.

Not voting to invite a new conference member that doesn't share your problems, your goals, your resources, your FOIA requirements, your state oversight and restrictions, etc. is not actionable in court.
02-17-2017 01:47 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #152
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-17-2017 10:26 AM)Scoochpooch Wrote:  Liberty was justified in your first point. NCAA had little chance of forcing schools to stay down. But a court may also see that in cases other than Liberty that the NCAA is trying to save schools from themselves. NCAA is blocking the schools from losing millions of dollars each season.

The NCAA's conference-invitation rule is intended to ensure that teams moving into FBS will be readily able to schedule the required 5 home games, 4 of which have to be vs. FBS opponents, and the required minimum of 8 total games vs. FBS opponents.

Based on Liberty's statement about the materials they submitted to the NCAA, the NCAA covered itself well in the event that other schools apply for a waiver. The NCAA can point to the materials that Liberty submitted and tell schools that you have to do just as much (finances, facilities, assurances about future football game contracts, and other criteria) to get a waiver of the conference-invitation rule.

One example, using athletic budget as an indication of readiness for FBS and whether a school should get a waiver: Someone started another thread here asking about Tennessee-Chattanooga possibly moving to FBS. Chattanooga's annual athletic budget, as reported to the federal government, is about $17 million. Liberty's reported athletic budget is about $39 million.
02-17-2017 01:56 PM
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Rabonchild Offline
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Post: #153
RE: Liberty to FBS
For those who hate Liberty and feel they have lost some major campaign against them. For those who are ticked off about Liberty becoming FBS in spite of their hopes and those who are now hoping nobody will schedule Liberty and just can't accept reality:

it's time to listen to your mother and "get over it! Just get over it!

Please drop it.
02-17-2017 01:58 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #154
RE: Liberty to FBS
If Liberty was able to push this through under the veil of legal force, then, they may have had grounds to dispute the spirit of the sponsorship rule was askew. That under whatever parameters or foundation was set when the rule was written, so many of these conferences just disregarded it when they saw Liberty's application. A bias. An abuse of the rule as a prohibitive manner.

All I'm saying is...Liberty has every right to explore its options.
02-17-2017 02:15 PM
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Post: #155
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-16-2017 04:29 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Darn. Guess the NCAA wussed out on the legal front. Liberty wanted this bad, and the Sun Belt wouldn't have them.

Hope they have middling success in football, at best. But doubt that will be the case.

Their program will be well funded, with truckloads of cash by fraudulent profiteers, claiming to be Christians.

03-lmfao
02-17-2017 02:57 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #156
RE: Liberty to FBS
(02-17-2017 02:15 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  If Liberty was able to push this through under the veil of legal force, then, they may have had grounds to dispute the spirit of the sponsorship rule was askew. That under whatever parameters or foundation was set when the rule was written, so many of these conferences just disregarded it when they saw Liberty's application. A bias. An abuse of the rule as a prohibitive manner.

All I'm saying is...Liberty has every right to explore its options.

So you're saying schools and conferences shouldn't have the right to free association? Academic standards have been the cornerstone of many conference inclusion decisions for a long time. If you're suggesting that their snub is 100% due to their religious affiliation then you're way off base. They have 90K online students. Do you really think William & Mary would ever want anything to do with that? Like it or not sports is a small part of the equation. And even if it were Liberty still wasn't a homerun add for any of these conferences. CCU brings a whole lot more, the Sun Belt made the right decision.
02-17-2017 02:59 PM
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