Well, that gives FBS Independents Liberty, UMass, NMSU plus Army, BYU and Notre Dame. (I'm setting aside Army, BYU and Notre Dame because they have no real problems filling schedules.)

That makes FBS Independence a little bit less daunting for Idaho--and UConn. If Liberty, UMass, UConn, NMSU and Idaho form a scheduling alliance, that's 2 FBS home games each for everybody. Your FCS game makes 3, and you're only 2 FBS home games short of a schedule.

(02-16-2017 04:31 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  What FBS conference would ever want Liberty? Mostly because Ian McCaw is a piece of garbage, among other reasons.

How on earth can Liberty sustain independence?

What the hell are they thinking?

Pretty easy......they have lots of students and lots of money.

(02-16-2017 04:49 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  No, there's a dozen or more other accreditations that can get you eligible for Federal aid. Most for-profits are not regionally accredited.

Quick search says GCU has regional accreditation:

https://www.gcu.edu/academics/academic-policies.php

HLC, which was part of the NCA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Cent...nd_Schools

(02-16-2017 04:59 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 04:55 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  That being said, good on them for selling diplomas. It's been a profitable model.

Not sure if you're being tongue-in-cheek here, or if you know something that people in Virginia know but the rest of the country doesn't know?

Because technically Liberty is non-profit.

He is being spiteful.

I have worked with many Liberty grads and my sister-in-law is doing an MBA there. It's not as easy as people who have never taken a class there try to paint it as.

(02-16-2017 04:51 PM)connecticutguy Wrote:  Just because Liberty has a strong online program, doesn't mean it's a sub-par university. And we should especially avoid negative comments because it is a university that teaches religious-based values/traditions. When recruiting, I think they might be able to draw from the large U.S. Evangelical community -- which includes many fine athletes. And those fans may be very loyal to the team. Best of luck to them! Maybe they will defeat ND and BYU some day!!

They don't teach religious based values/traditions. They teach conservative ignorance. If they actually taught christian values they wouldn't be run by the Falwells.

(02-16-2017 04:35 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'm guessing Liberty will remain in the Big South. Just indy in football.


Big South (FCS) football still has Charleston Southern. That team has been really good the last couple years. And I suppose they'll continue that until their coach is poached by a larger fish.

Charleston Southern's coach actually left to become the OC at Coastal. Apparently he and the Charleston Southern administration didn't see eye to eye on how to run the football team.

(02-16-2017 05:07 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Well, that gives FBS Independents Liberty, UMass, NMSU plus Army, BYU and Notre Dame. (I'm setting aside Army, BYU and Notre Dame because they have no real problems filling schedules.)

That makes FBS Independence a little bit less daunting for Idaho--and UConn. If Liberty, UMass, UConn, NMSU and Idaho form a scheduling alliance, that's 2 FBS home games each for everybody. Your FCS game makes 3, and you're only 2 FBS home games short of a schedule.

That does not make sense for Uconn, what would they gain? They might profit about 3 million dollars but they will lose a crap ton of fans, support, and CFP money so they would probably just break even.

If they want to be in a better basketball league they would be better off trying to push the AAC to add some good basketball teams.

(02-16-2017 04:54 PM)NDSUguy Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 04:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 04:42 PM)NDSUguy Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 04:37 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 04:33 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  Their diploma mill operations produces truck loads of cash.

Exactly. Liberty isn't another BYU or Baylor. Liberty is another Grand Canyon University. They just beat Grand Canyon in the race to be first to extend their online-education branding to include an FBS football team.

Think what you want about Liberty but they are a regionally accredited university which is the same as any other major university in the country. They are considered "not for profit" and they do have a substantial on campus presence. They are NOT Grand Canyon University.

GCU also has a physical campus with students in attendance. Look 'em up. And every online college that feasts on student loan money has regional accreditation, because that is a prerequisite for those student loans.

The idea that they would be considered a diploma mill or that their degrees are somehow less reputable than other religious schools is an exaggeration of the truth.

There are many legitimate reasons to dislike the university for their religious viewpoints. To dislike the university based on the notion that the degrees there are not up to par shouldn't be one of them. They have over 200 program that are accredited and they produce quality students.

It's a political science machine. They crank out right wing lobbyists to work in Washington. I had two cousins go there for teaching. Their diplomas aren't worth the paper they're printed on and can't get public school jobs. Only religious private schools will hire them. They don't teach actual science there. Thats a pretty good reason not to like a "University" that doesn't teach actual science.

(02-16-2017 04:55 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  They'll probably do bodybag games cheaper than the rest of us so should have no problem getting games.

I see problems for them in scheduling. P12, B12, B1G, and MAC simply don't have late season slots even if they were willing to play them. A lot of ACC schools - frankly almost all public P5 schools and many G5 public schools, even a number of the SBC (their presidents were near unanimous in rejecting them) - will refuse to schedule them. The elite privates wont touch them either. Sure a Baylor (if they even have schedule space) and desperate school for November dates like NMSU might schedule them, but it's hard to see a long list. It may cost Georgia $500K more to schedule Kent State, but that is one protest headache a school President and AD don't have to deal with.

Maybe Falwell is hoping President Trump will force Army to create a hole in their schedule (they're booked through 2021) by EO.

(02-16-2017 05:02 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 04:53 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  This is a lawsuit averted more than anything else. I think it nudges the P5 a little closer to their own division, given the weakness of the NCAA to be any kind of a barrier.

It will be interesting to see if hey can schedule. Will Falwell try to sue schools that refuse to schedule the Flames?

It's funny, because this move, overdue and well done on Liberty's behalf, I might say, was probably done with a lawyer threatening to sue if the NCAA didn't allow it.

If nobody schedules them, they'll have a lawyer ready for that, too.

And in both cases, they are right to.

These move-up's used to have a bit more merit to them. If Rutgers started the trend against that, Coastal was a step ahead (and there's nothing against either, good job to both for getting there). Folks at these football schools want this to reflect a business, then go right to institutional politics and pettiness when it comes down to it. Liberty's story the last decade or so with CAAF and SoCon. Same for Coastal. **** those conferences.

The rules stink. The politics are putrid.

I am no fan of that institution, but the enemy of my enemy is my ally in this one. Good luck, Liberty. You're going to need it.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. What did Rutgers start?

Also I don't know how lawyers will help Liberty schedule games. You can't sue Notre Dame or Ohio State because they wont play you in FB.

(02-16-2017 05:17 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 04:55 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  They'll probably do bodybag games cheaper than the rest of us so should have no problem getting games.

I see problems for them in scheduling. P12, B12, B1G, and MAC simply don't have late season slots even if they were willing to play them. A lot of ACC schools - frankly almost all public P5 schools and many G5 public schools, even a number of the SBC (their presidents were near unanimous in rejecting them) - will refuse to schedule them. The elite privates wont touch them either. Sure a Baylor (if they even have schedule space) and desperate school for November dates like NMSU might schedule them, but it's hard to see a long list. It may cost Georgia $500K more to schedule Kent State, but that is one protest headache a school President and AD don't have to deal with.

Maybe Falwell is hoping President Trump will force Army to create a hole in their schedule (they're booked through 2021) by EO.

The SEC loves to play late season ooc games. They might land a couple of those and front load the schedule with the home games. Anything is possible when money is involved.

(02-16-2017 05:00 PM)connecticutguy Wrote:  Please remember that not everyone can afford four years tuition, room and board, and fees at a residential campus.

But on the other hand, I'm willing to bet that a good deal more people who enroll in "online degree programs" never finish them.

The general idea for such a model is to get potential students to sign up for the (ridiculously) high costs and then have the government foot the cost by loaning the student the money.

The student never finishes, and never gets anything for their time and money. The school makes off with the money, while the student deals with the government to pay the money back.


This is outright fraud, in my opinion.


BUT at least in Liberty's case, it is a non-profit organization. Although, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the online operation was a separate organization that was for-profit. But I'm making that up, I don't know if that's true.

(02-16-2017 05:11 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I have worked with many Liberty grads and my sister-in-law is doing an MBA there. It's not as easy as people who have never taken a class there try to paint it as.

Sure. I wasn't necessarily suggesting that Liberty (online) classes are all really easy, and thus an easy way to get a degree.

Nor suggesting that no smart and/or talented people attend/attended Liberty.

(02-16-2017 05:13 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  They don't teach religious based values/traditions. They teach conservative ignorance. If they actually taught christian values they wouldn't be run by the Falwells.

+3

(02-16-2017 05:14 PM)Teal2018 Wrote:  Charleston Southern's coach actually left to become the OC at Coastal. Apparently he and the Charleston Southern administration didn't see eye to eye on how to run the football team.

Ah. Well, that's that I guess. Be interesting if Chuck South can maintain the recent success, but guessing that guy was a huge reason for it.

(02-16-2017 05:15 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  That does not make sense for Uconn, what would they gain? They might profit about 3 million dollars but they will lose a crap ton of fans, support, and CFP money so they would probably just break even.

Are they getting a ton of CFP money from the AAC now?? Also doubt they get many fans and support from being non-competitive in the AAC.

(02-16-2017 05:15 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  If they want to be in a better basketball league they would be better off trying to push the AAC to add some good basketball teams.

Or they could join the Big East in all-sports, and go Indy in football.

(02-16-2017 05:16 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  It's a political science machine. They crank out right wing lobbyists to work in Washington. I had two cousins go there for teaching. Their diplomas aren't worth the paper they're printed on and can't get public school jobs. Only religious private schools will hire them. They don't teach actual science there. Thats a pretty good reason not to like a "University" that doesn't teach actual science.

I bet it wasn't cheap, either. That is unfortunate.

(02-16-2017 05:15 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 05:07 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Well, that gives FBS Independents Liberty, UMass, NMSU plus Army, BYU and Notre Dame. (I'm setting aside Army, BYU and Notre Dame because they have no real problems filling schedules.)

That makes FBS Independence a little bit less daunting for Idaho--and UConn. If Liberty, UMass, UConn, NMSU and Idaho form a scheduling alliance, that's 2 FBS home games each for everybody. Your FCS game makes 3, and you're only 2 FBS home games short of a schedule.

That does not make sense for Uconn, what would they gain? They might profit about 3 million dollars but they will lose a crap ton of fans, support, and CFP money so they would probably just break even.

If they want to be in a better basketball league they would be better off trying to push the AAC to add some good basketball teams.

I'm not saying it's a great move for UConn. They'd pick up $2M a year in TV money, maybe $1M more in NCAA credits (wild guess), and stabilize their basketball program. (I don't think that the AAC is a problem for UConn hoops, but there may be a faction in Storrs that thinks so?) But they'd lose access to the CFP money, $2M I think. And they get to pay the AAC $10M, unless they've lowered the exit fees.

But having more independent FBS teams (Liberty, maybe Idaho joining UMass, New Mexico State plus Army and BYU) means that FBS independence is more of an option than it was yesterday--for UConn, or for anyone. The more indy's there are, the less impossible it is to fill a schedule, especially during conference play.

Good news / bad news for the WAC.

Bad news - With Liberty being granted this FBS waiver, it could mean the WAC's grandfathered clause is no longer needed. Also if UT-RGV wants football they may be looking for a new home.

Good news - NMSU might be more inclined to stick around.

UConn (nor UMass) will likely never schedule Liberty, nor will Cal, Texas, Michigan, Virginia, Duke, UNC, Georgia, Florida, Wisconsin, Stanford, Kansas, Missouri, Miami, Tennessee, or any number of liberal leaning campuses (e.g., the Ohio and Michigan MAC schools). It's just inviting protests and controversy. If there is one thing University Presidents want to avoid it is campus wide protests - whether real or imagined. I can see Conferences like the P12, B1G and ACC quietly instituting a black listing of Liberty, without ever saying anything in public. GCU ran into that with the Pac-12, Liberty could see a national version of that.

As for UConn an Independent, it requires FOX to come up with a package similar to Army has from CBS or BYU from ESPN, along with Bowl access and help scheduling a few P5 opponents (maybe an annual neutral game guaranteed in Foxborough or Fenway, or Yankee Stadium or Meadowlands; I do think the B1G would be open to help, given the FOX connection). But does FOX want to bother? That is a lot of extra work for adding one BE school. Unless and until FOX decides to do that, this is just fan talk, going nowhere.

(02-16-2017 05:30 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Good news / bad news for the WAC.

Bad news - With Liberty being granted this FBS waiver, it could mean the WAC's grandfathered clause is no longer needed. Also if UT-RGV wants football they may be looking for a new home.

Good news - NMSU might be more inclined to stick around.

UT-RGV wouldn't need a new home. They could now just be an FBS Indy and stay in the WAC for everything else.

(02-16-2017 05:36 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 05:30 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Good news / bad news for the WAC.

Bad news - With Liberty being granted this FBS waiver, it could mean the WAC's grandfathered clause is no longer needed. Also if UT-RGV wants football they may be looking for a new home.

Good news - NMSU might be more inclined to stick around.

UT-RGV wouldn't need a new home. They could now just be an FBS Indy and stay in the WAC for everything else.

I said "could." Because UT-RGV and any others entertaining thoughts of moving up will have to prove they can sustain themselves without an invitation to a current FBS conference.

Hey Guys .... still catching our breath in Flames Nation as this announcement came much quicker than we expected. But the NCAA moved faster than any of us could have imagined.

First off, we have resources to make this happen. We have to schedule three home FBS games in 2018 and we just started making calls today. But we have to get up to the full five game expectation by 2019. Our chancellor just announced int he news conference that we have plans and money to expand the stadium from 19k to 25k right now. But we will probably work to make that bump up to 35k possibly as soon as after the 2017 season. We had planned to move it a long little by little but will likely push forward time schedule.

jdgaucho - That is a big takeaway from the process. Liberty had to really show they were prepared from both facility and resource perspective to gain this exemption. Might be tough for UT-RGV to pull this off based on current facilities and the lack of resources in the Valley.

This certainly sets an interesting precedent. I wonder if anyone else will try to go the FBS independent route. I'd love to the see the best of the MVFC and Big Sky move up too. I wouldn't mind seeing 4-6 western schools and 4-6 Midwestern schools form a football league together.

Stugray2 - Half the schools you listed have played Liberty in football in the past decade or so. Granted that was back before most fo the P5 leagues started pushing hard against FCS schools. But with FBS Indy status, we might make an attractive cupcake.