http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=...tm&src=FCS

This is why I think it is unfair the way some people criticize bowl games but fail to acknowledge:

- Playoff games average attendance was 8,693 fans
- First round playoff games averaged 3,397 fans w/ only 2 games above 5,000
- Take away program like Jacksonville St, Montana, JMU, and NDSU and that average attendance number is closer to 6,000 per playoff game.

I still stand by my opinion that winning the national championship game was better than any G5 bowl but we make fun of G5 bowls (with average attendance around 20,000 fans and all nationally televised) but ignore FCS playoff games (which average well below 10,000 fans and are mostly not televised but rather streamed online).

Reality is, attendance is dropping for all sports at all levels of college and professional sports. Unfortunately, I do not see this trend reversing anytime soon. Chalk it up to increased streaming services, reduction in rivalries, ticket prices, condensed schedule, lack of interest in some younger fans and you have the current attendance landscape.

The stats article points out that there were three fewer games from Fcs attendance leaders than last year and the championship game was significantly less attended.
What happened was that the extreme high outliers were not present as deep into the playoffs this year.

(02-16-2017 12:03 PM)NYJMUSupporter Wrote:  Reality is, attendance is dropping for all sports at all levels of college and professional sports. Unfortunately, I do not see this trend reversing anytime soon. Chalk it up to increased streaming services, reduction in rivalries, ticket prices, condensed schedule, lack of interest in some younger fans and you have the current attendance landscape.

2016 saw a 1% drop in overall attendance and 4% in 2015:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-footbal...ight-year/

Bowl attendance dropped but only 5%:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/co...story.html

FCS numbers are dropping at a much faster rate and attendance numbers are skewed higher due to a handful of schools pulling up the average.

I'm just pointing out that 1) we are not competing with our peers and 2) we seem to be overly critical of bowl game attendance and TV viewership when the vast majority of our games are crowds around 5,000 with the only TV option being to stream the game on the internet.

(02-16-2017 12:35 PM)Potomac Wrote:  The stats article points out that there were three fewer games from Fcs attendance leaders than last year and the championship game was significantly less attended.
What happened was that the extreme high outliers were not present as deep into the playoffs this year.

Agreed. I pointed that out in my original comment. That goes to show that the numbers that are regularly shown are not a appropriate representative of FCS football. The average doesn't always tell the story and that is the case with FCS football.

Bowl games are a single game outside of the FBS semifinals and championship game (for two teams). Bowl games have roughly three to four weeks notice to fans.

FCS playoff games have 6 to 7 days notice to fans per round except for the title game. It's not exactly apples to apples.

(02-16-2017 12:49 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  FCS numbers are dropping at a much faster rate and attendance numbers are skewed higher due to a handful of schools pulling up the average.

This needs to stop. This is why it's called an average.

FBS numbers are buoyed by programs like Michigan, Ohio St. and Texas A&M. If you remove them from the numbers, all of the sudden, the numbers don't look as good.

But they're part of the data set.

If you remove all the JMU basketball losses (that are skewing the winning percentage way down for some reason), they'd be undefeated! What a team!

(02-16-2017 02:23 PM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 12:49 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  FCS numbers are dropping at a much faster rate and attendance numbers are skewed higher due to a handful of schools pulling up the average.

This needs to stop. This is why it's called an average.

FBS numbers are buoyed by programs like Michigan, Ohio St. and Texas A&M. If you remove them from the numbers, all of the sudden, the numbers don't look as good.

But they're part of the data set.

If you remove all the JMU basketball losses (that are skewing the winning percentage way down for some reason), they'd be undefeated! What a team!

What needs to stop? Remove the top schools and the average is bad. Keep the top schools and the average is bad. Pick whatever set of numbers you want, it's not good.

FYI - The numbers from the article (8,000 in attendance and 22% decline in attendance) is without removing any data from the set...

(02-16-2017 02:42 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  What needs to stop? Remove the top schools and the average is bad.

If this is the case, then why did you feel it necessary to qualify twice in this string?

Quote:- Take away program like Jacksonville St, Montana, JMU, and NDSU and that average attendance number is closer to 6,000 per playoff game.

Take away FCS wins and JMU Football went winless last year.

Removing data from its correct data set to try to make a point is logically dishonest.

(02-16-2017 02:59 PM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 02:42 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  What needs to stop? Remove the top schools and the average is bad.

If this is the case, then why did you feel it necessary to qualify twice in this string?

Quote:- Take away program like Jacksonville St, Montana, JMU, and NDSU and that average attendance number is closer to 6,000 per playoff game.

Take away FCS wins and JMU Football went winless last year.

Removing data from its correct data set to try to make a point is logically dishonest.

Wow dude... Apple and oranges. In statistics, outliers are typically removed (but noted) when numbers are vastly skewed. Arbitrarily removing data for the hell of it, like you noted, is dead wrong.

Oh apples and oranges you say? Like comparing attendance for FBS bowl games to attendance to FCS playoff games?

(02-16-2017 03:19 PM)HolyCityDuke Wrote:  In statistics, outliers are typically removed (but noted) when numbers are vastly skewed.

Also, Mr. Statistician, are you saying that in a data set of 24, it would be 'typical' to remove a full sixth of your sample (only from one extreme, no less) as 'outliers?' Surely you're familiar with Gaussian distribution.

DO WORK BJK

Frankly, worrying about what others are doing i.e. is what stagnates our administration and a handful of fans into the belief JMU is "what it is" and that's all that it will ever be. Our university took a step way back in the 60's and said we want to separate ourselves from the Radford's and Longwood's, who were our peers of the day, and position ourselves to be more like the East Carolina's and Appalachian State's but become attractive to a high achieving young person. I don't mean this from an athletic perspective but an overall university viewpoint. Whether this was stated or not isn't relevant, it's what was done.

This took a lot of courage, some bold thinking, and ultimately what drove Madison College to become James Madison University. I'm sure there were a lot of people very comfortable and proud of their little college. Thankfully the audacious got their way. There will be a time and a group who will eventually step up that will take us further down our path, but it's not going to happen with JA and CK running the show. JA will move on and CK will retire and our puppet AD will willingly do what keeps him sipping wine with those who are who he cannot be.

Oh, this was suppose to be about FCS Playoff Attendance, sorry.

(02-16-2017 12:49 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 12:03 PM)NYJMUSupporter Wrote:  Reality is, attendance is dropping for all sports at all levels of college and professional sports. Unfortunately, I do not see this trend reversing anytime soon. Chalk it up to increased streaming services, reduction in rivalries, ticket prices, condensed schedule, lack of interest in some younger fans and you have the current attendance landscape.

2016 saw a 1% drop in overall attendance and 4% in 2015:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-footbal...ight-year/

Bowl attendance dropped but only 5%:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/co...story.html

FCS numbers are dropping at a much faster rate and attendance numbers are skewed higher due to a handful of schools pulling up the average.

I'm just pointing out that 1) we are not competing with our peers and 2) we seem to be overly critical of bowl game attendance and TV viewership when the vast majority of our games are crowds around 5,000 with the only TV option being to stream the game on the internet.

On the other hand are skewed lower because of:
-Only 6-7 days notice for games 4 of the 5 rounds (3 weeks for the NC), which hurts attendance compared to the regular season when can plan weeks to months ahead.
-8 of 23 playoff games are Thanksgiving weekend, an absolute attendance killer.
-Schools under reporting their attendance to lessen the amount they have to fork over to the NCAA.

Bowl games:
-Get 2-5 weeks notice for games
-Bowl games also have historically inflated their attendance #s..

(02-16-2017 03:26 PM)bjk3047 Wrote:  Oh apples and oranges you say? Like comparing attendance for FBS bowl games to attendance to FCS playoff games?

I was simply posting an article stating the decline in attendance. I presented a set of facts. Take schools out, leave schools in, compare it to bow games or the super bowl for all I care.

My one, and only point, was every time people mention bowl games on this forum, people point to the lack of crowds and exposure while neglecting the fact that FCS playoff games draw a few thousand fans with exposure on ESPN's online channel.

(02-16-2017 04:54 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  

(02-16-2017 03:26 PM)bjk3047 Wrote:  Oh apples and oranges you say? Like comparing attendance for FBS bowl games to attendance to FCS playoff games?

I was simply posting an article stating the decline in attendance. I presented a set of facts. Take schools out, leave schools in, compare it to bow games or the super bowl for all I care.

My one, and only point, was every time people mention bowl games on this forum, people point to the lack of crowds and exposure while neglecting the fact that FCS playoff games draw a few thousand fans with exposure on ESPN's online channel.

+1

::micdrop::

(02-16-2017 04:05 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  On the other hand are skewed lower because of:
-Only 6-7 days notice for games 4 of the 5 rounds (3 weeks for the NC), which hurts attendance compared to the regular season when can plan weeks to months ahead.
-8 of 23 playoff games are Thanksgiving weekend, an absolute attendance killer.
-Schools under reporting their attendance to lessen the amount they have to fork over to the NCAA.

Bowl games:
-Get 2-5 weeks notice for games
-Bowl games also have historically inflated their attendance #s..

::heyyoushouldreallycomepickupthatmic::

BDK and BJK. Stop it with these facts. We've got an agenda to push on an message board.

(02-17-2017 09:14 AM)Potomac Wrote:  BDK and BJK. Stop it with these facts. We've got an agenda to push on an message board.

What's the agenda, trying to convince JMU fans that fcs is somehow better than G5 status? Less is more. Up is down. Playing broke back Norfolk State at BFS is more engaging for fans than playing ACC programs at BFS.

Your agenda is much easier to push to those of us that are personal friends of our puppet AD.