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Gopher Illustrated reports that North Dakota will be invited to the Big Ten Hockey
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Gopher Illustrated reports that North Dakota will be invited to the Big Ten Hockey
(02-16-2017 03:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I can't emphasize this enough: it took the single largest donation in the history of Penn State for ANYTHING (including academics, football, etc.) to start up the hockey program there. That's a MASSIVE bar to climb.

I would hope aspiring programs wouldn't use PSU as the benchmark. Penn State had a club. It had some sort of facility it was using.

The money came in, and everything went to top-shelf level. That's the difference. Infrastructure was there, but the "growing pains" were dramatically reduced. It's not that Penn State had nothing, Penn State was injected to become as close to an instant contributor at an instant. The facility alone...just ridiculous.

That's a problem, imo. It's that there is this perception that you might have to be Michigan/State, Wisconsin, or Minnesota right out of the gate if you're a Big Ten school, or any program looking to move into D1. That's simply not fair, or logical. But, that might be the playing field now.

Quote:I know for a fact that Lincoln tried to get Omaha into the CIC when Nebraska entered the Big 10. Their reasoning was that Illinois-Chicago was allowed to attend CIC meetings, so why shouldn't Nebraska-Omaha? (Much of the benefit of CIC is meetings to discuss best practices, so if you're allowed to attend the meetings you're effectively "in" the CIC for most practical purposes). But rather than allow Omaha in, the CIC kicked out UIC. Pissed off the folks in Illinois something fierce.

That's interesting! Institutional cooperation...it's still a thing?!

Oh, wait, it isn't in Ohio. Or Pennsylvania.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2017 04:51 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
02-16-2017 04:48 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Gopher Illustrated reports that North Dakota will be invited to the Big Ten Hockey
(02-16-2017 04:48 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 03:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I can't emphasize this enough: it took the single largest donation in the history of Penn State for ANYTHING (including academics, football, etc.) to start up the hockey program there. That's a MASSIVE bar to climb.

I would hope aspiring programs wouldn't use PSU as the benchmark. Penn State had a club. It had some sort of facility it was using.

The money came in, and everything went to top-shelf level. That's the difference. Infrastructure was there, but the "growing pains" were dramatically reduced. It's not that Penn State had nothing, Penn State was injected to become as close to an instant contributor at an instant. The facility alone...just ridiculous.

That's a problem, imo. It's that there is this perception that you might have to be Michigan/State, Wisconsin, or Minnesota right out of the gate if you're a Big Ten school, or any program looking to move into D1. That's simply not fair, or logical. But, that might be the playing field now.

Quote:I know for a fact that Lincoln tried to get Omaha into the CIC when Nebraska entered the Big 10. Their reasoning was that Illinois-Chicago was allowed to attend CIC meetings, so why shouldn't Nebraska-Omaha? (Much of the benefit of CIC is meetings to discuss best practices, so if you're allowed to attend the meetings you're effectively "in" the CIC for most practical purposes). But rather than allow Omaha in, the CIC kicked out UIC. Pissed off the folks in Illinois something fierce.

That's interesting! Institutional cooperation...it's still a thing?!

Oh, wait, it isn't in Ohio. Or Pennsylvania.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love nothing more than for Illinois to add Division I hockey. The thing is that they are in the *exact* same position as Penn State was competitively with a long history of a strong club hockey program plus a good home base for recruiting. Yet, the Illinois AD has explicitly stated that unless a PSU-type donation comes through the door, it just isn't happening. He's not even pretending or performing fan service to say that it's even a possibility otherwise.

Even if you don't have a PSU-type donation and want to do it "cheap", it's still expensive. Pretty much all of these schools would need to build brand new Division I ice hockey facilities, and even if they aren't palaces on the scale of PSU, that still takes a lot of money. Arizona State could use Gila River Arena for some games and it's directly in a large metro area, but not many other schools have that type of immediate availability without spending a ton on new buildings. Plus, these schools generally can't just add men's hockey alone. For Title IX reasons, they need to add a women's team (or the equivalent number of women's scholarships in other sports), too. So, you really need to add two teams in practicality at the same time. That's simply a challenge for any athletic department if they aren't spending $100 million like PSU. It would be tough to do all of that with $50 million unless you've got access to existing facilities like ASU.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2017 07:26 PM by Frank the Tank.)
02-16-2017 07:25 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Gopher Illustrated reports that North Dakota will be invited to the Big Ten Hockey
The exit fees from the NCHC are $1 mill. Hope the Big Ten pays for it if it happens. The NCHC would really be daamaged if we left and our relationship with Denver would likely be too. Those two schools really spearheaded the NCHC. The athletic department needs to cut $1.3 million in expenses by early March. My bet is M/W tennis goes and maybe M swimming get cut leaving us with 17 or 18 sports.

Women's hockey is not yet a Big Ten sponsored sport. UND has been OK at it, but Minnesota and Wisconsin have dominated lately. The Michigans and Notre Dame don't yet offer it, so a Big Ten women's hockey doesn't yet have five teams for UND to make six. That sport some fans want it axed, as it is expensive but if the Big Ten wants to sponsor it then obviously it won't be cut.
02-16-2017 11:09 PM
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Post: #44
RE: Gopher Illustrated reports that North Dakota will be invited to the Big Ten Hockey
Minnesota has not only a separate arena for hockey, but a separate arena on top of that for W hockey! I think as part of letting UND in the BT for MHockey, there will be an agreement that UND has to maintain its women's program.

$1M is peanuts for the BT. They should pay that fee.


Big Ten should consider adding Duluth and Omaha on top of UND. Omaha being like the "surrogate" for Nebraska, in that particular sport.


Denver and Omaha will be fine. Bet UND continues to schedule both regularly, as they will be Summit colleagues now. The NCHC should, rightly, pick up Mankato, another former WCHA foe since 1999.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2017 11:46 AM by MplsBison.)
02-17-2017 11:44 AM
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Post: #45
RE: Gopher Illustrated reports that North Dakota will be invited to the Big Ten Hockey
(02-15-2017 08:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  If UND leaves the NCHC, could see this happening to the rest of western hockey:

http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/2016/4/20/11318170/

This would be wonderful for Bowling Green. I assume it is too good to be true.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2017 02:26 PM by Schadenfreude.)
02-17-2017 01:15 PM
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MplsBison Online
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Post: #46
RE: Gopher Illustrated reports that North Dakota will be invited to the Big Ten Hockey
Yeah, with all the huge programs in P5 hockey confs (Big Ten, Hockey East ... per se), I see no reason why you wouldn't have all the remaining Michigan/Ohio programs in a conf and all the remaining Minn/Colorado/Omaha programs in a conf.

Not sure what to tell the Alaska, Arizona, Alabama programs ... maybe an "All A's" conf?
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2017 01:38 PM by MplsBison.)
02-17-2017 01:33 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Gopher Illustrated reports that North Dakota will be invited to the Big Ten Hockey
How can Ferris St and Western Michigan among others afford hockey?
Couldn't a school add ice making capabilities to an existing arena .
Denver and Omaha use the same arena for basketball and hockey.
Northwestern is remodeling their basketball arena add a sheet of ice.
02-17-2017 01:41 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Gopher Illustrated reports that North Dakota will be invited to the Big Ten Hockey
(02-17-2017 01:33 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yeah, with all the huge programs in P5 hockey confs (Big Ten, Hockey East ... per se), I see no reason why you wouldn't have all the remaining Michigan/Ohio programs in a conf and all the remaining Minn/Colorado/Omaha programs in a conf.

Not sure what to tell the Alaska, Arizona, Alabama programs ... maybe an "All A's" conf?

A number of new programs could come of this. Simon Fraser, Minot St, Utah, Arizona, UNLV, Ill St, Grand Valley St, Wayne St or Oakland.

Alabama and UAH would play in the new CCHA and later break off with more southern schools like Liberty and whoever else in the SEC starts a team.
02-17-2017 01:46 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Gopher Illustrated reports that North Dakota will be invited to the Big Ten Hockey
(02-16-2017 07:25 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 04:48 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 03:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I can't emphasize this enough: it took the single largest donation in the history of Penn State for ANYTHING (including academics, football, etc.) to start up the hockey program there. That's a MASSIVE bar to climb.

I would hope aspiring programs wouldn't use PSU as the benchmark. Penn State had a club. It had some sort of facility it was using.

The money came in, and everything went to top-shelf level. That's the difference. Infrastructure was there, but the "growing pains" were dramatically reduced. It's not that Penn State had nothing, Penn State was injected to become as close to an instant contributor at an instant. The facility alone...just ridiculous.

That's a problem, imo. It's that there is this perception that you might have to be Michigan/State, Wisconsin, or Minnesota right out of the gate if you're a Big Ten school, or any program looking to move into D1. That's simply not fair, or logical. But, that might be the playing field now.

Quote:I know for a fact that Lincoln tried to get Omaha into the CIC when Nebraska entered the Big 10. Their reasoning was that Illinois-Chicago was allowed to attend CIC meetings, so why shouldn't Nebraska-Omaha? (Much of the benefit of CIC is meetings to discuss best practices, so if you're allowed to attend the meetings you're effectively "in" the CIC for most practical purposes). But rather than allow Omaha in, the CIC kicked out UIC. Pissed off the folks in Illinois something fierce.

That's interesting! Institutional cooperation...it's still a thing?!

Oh, wait, it isn't in Ohio. Or Pennsylvania.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love nothing more than for Illinois to add Division I hockey. The thing is that they are in the *exact* same position as Penn State was competitively with a long history of a strong club hockey program plus a good home base for recruiting. Yet, the Illinois AD has explicitly stated that unless a PSU-type donation comes through the door, it just isn't happening. He's not even pretending or performing fan service to say that it's even a possibility otherwise.

Even if you don't have a PSU-type donation and want to do it "cheap", it's still expensive. Pretty much all of these schools would need to build brand new Division I ice hockey facilities, and even if they aren't palaces on the scale of PSU, that still takes a lot of money. Arizona State could use Gila River Arena for some games and it's directly in a large metro area, but not many other schools have that type of immediate availability without spending a ton on new buildings. Plus, these schools generally can't just add men's hockey alone. For Title IX reasons, they need to add a women's team (or the equivalent number of women's scholarships in other sports), too. So, you really need to add two teams in practicality at the same time. That's simply a challenge for any athletic department if they aren't spending $100 million like PSU. It would be tough to do all of that with $50 million unless you've got access to existing facilities like ASU.

Why would it take such a big donation? Illinois has a great basketball facility - wouldn't it be easy/cheap to make the baseline seats moveable and put an ice maker on the court?

They already have Huff Hall to handle volleyball and occasionally women's basketball games. So it's not like scheduling would be a big issue like it would for other schools.
02-17-2017 05:41 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Gopher Illustrated reports that North Dakota will be invited to the Big Ten Hockey
This is a great move by the B1G. Partials can be extremely valuable. The B1G now has 3, and they all add very clear value.

The ACC should have made a similar move w/ JHU.

Additionally, AAU is clearly an old marketing ploy and nothing more. Nebraska (full member) and 2/3rds of the partials are not AAU. That's 3/16 schools.
02-17-2017 07:10 PM
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