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Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #161
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
No need to make name changes. Once you win with a certain name, that name becomes big time. USF and UCF are working out just fine.
10-15-2017 06:59 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #162
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-15-2017 06:11 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(10-14-2017 11:59 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 01:23 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 01:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 10:59 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  This is strictly for the attractiveness of UCF and USF for the Big 12 (as it's pointless to even consider them for the SEC or ACC, much less the Big Ten or Pac-12):

Advantages for UCF and USF: great locations both in terms of TV markets and recruiting; large enrollment schools that are growing fast; fairly good on-the-field track records compared to other G5 schools

Disadvantages for UCF and USF: arguably the most competitive college football market in the country with Florida and FSU being elite marquee programs and Miami being a top tier national TV brand (making attendance irrelevant with respect to Miami); very young FBS programs in a P5 world that craves/demands old school blue blood history even from weak programs (see Rutgers); real and perceived bias against "directional" schools in terms of branding; academic perception

Non-factor: It's irrelevant to argue that a G5 school would have better attendance or TV ratings by playing a P5 schedule because that would be true of *every* G5 school. Instead, a G5 school has to show that it would bring attendance, TV viewers and revenue to those *P5* schools as opposed to the other way around.

Now, I'll know we'll hear the arguments that it's hypocritical to use, say, academics as a factor against UCF and USF when you see a school like UNC systemically violating the NCAA's academic procedures... and those arguments are entirely correct. However, if you're a school on the outside looking in, it simply doesn't matter. Every argument that is used to keep you out will be emphasized much more heavily than any argument to bring you in. Simply being better than #65 out of the 65 P5 schools is NOT the standard being used.

Of course, all those points are moot if the Big 12 or any other P5 conference doesn't yield more per school revenue by choosing to expand. UCF and/or USF could go undefeated for the next 10 years straight and it wouldn't matter if that revenue equation doesn't change.

Addressing solely the point about directional names and perception of academics: I agree that is probably what people think in average. And it’s too bad and a bit unfair in USF’s case, because it actually has pretty good research.

Would be interesting if they’d consider a name change. Not sure what would make sense or be available, though. UF-Tampa Bay?

What would be wrong with University of Tampa and University of Orlando? USF may be south of UCF, but not by much.

Edit: U of Tampa is taken (private DII school). U of Orlando isn't.

[/b]UCF actually looked at branding itself UF-Orlando, until they noticed UFO. That nixed the idea permanently. UCF decided on a different course of action and it has really paid off well for them: insist on being referred to as UCF, much like USC is referred to as USC, and not Southern California. Nobody is going to confuse UCF for USC, but USC has made its directional name work by referring to itself by initials. UCF decided to adopt that same strategy and it has worked. USF is doing something similar. If any Florida schools need to look at a name change, it would be FAU & FIU. Those schools have really struggled, IMO, and their names don't help them at all.

Did you actually just make this up?

No, I didn't. I used to know a UCF fan named Sportdwf on the old AOL college football boards, and he told me about it. I don't know how to get in contact with him though or even how to access the AOL college football message boards. When I find him & see him again, I'll send him over here.
10-15-2017 08:10 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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Post: #163
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
Yes cause UCF did NOT think of rebranding to UF Orlando.
10-15-2017 08:17 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #164
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-15-2017 06:59 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  No need to make name changes. Once you win with a certain name, that name becomes big time. USF and UCF are working out just fine.

Correct. Just emphasize your three initials as your identity. USF is fine. UCF is as well. As long as you aren't stating what the S and C stand for you aren't identifying with a direction. In a ever increasing anti religious era T.C.U. does just fine with those three letters. As long as you are not the Southern University of Xenophobia you will be A OK!
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2017 08:27 PM by JRsec.)
10-15-2017 08:27 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #165
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
I'm still salty about that 2013 season.

South Carolina finished 9th and had 3 teams that we beat (Missouri and UCF on the road, Clemson at home) go to nicer bowls while we got Capital One again. Ended up finishing 4th, but still stinks.
10-16-2017 03:50 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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Post: #166
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
The University of Southern California and Southern Methodist University are private schools, many decades established in academic prestige and athletics. The connotations, perceptively and fiscally, differ with state owned colleges and universities.

SMU's athletic troubles, were not due to a "directional" indicator.
USC has long been an AAU member with a strong contingent of famous alumni.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2017 02:57 AM by OdinFrigg.)
10-17-2017 02:53 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #167
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-16-2017 03:50 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  I'm still salty about that 2013 season.

South Carolina finished 9th and had 3 teams that we beat (Missouri and UCF on the road, Clemson at home) go to nicer bowls while we got Capital One again. Ended up finishing 4th, but still stinks.

Not only did they go to nicer bowls, they won them. South Carolina beat the Cotton, Fiesta, and Orange Bowl champions that year, and won the Cap One bowl.

Unfortunately, you laid an egg against a bad Tennessee team that year, which cost you the SEC East and a chance to play for the national title.
10-17-2017 07:38 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #168
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-17-2017 02:53 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  The University of Southern California and Southern Methodist University are private schools, many decades established in academic prestige and athletics. The connotations, perceptively and fiscally, differ with state owned colleges and universities.

SMU's athletic troubles, were not due to a "directional" indicator.
USC has long been an AAU member with a strong contingent of famous alumni.

This is true. It's a pet peeve of mine that people would call USC or any private school a "directional" school. A private school is simply is NOT a directional school and university presidents know exactly what the term means. A directional school for conference realignment purposes is a non-flagship public school that has a direction in its name.
10-17-2017 09:15 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #169
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-17-2017 09:15 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 02:53 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  The University of Southern California and Southern Methodist University are private schools, many decades established in academic prestige and athletics. The connotations, perceptively and fiscally, differ with state owned colleges and universities.

SMU's athletic troubles, were not due to a "directional" indicator.
USC has long been an AAU member with a strong contingent of famous alumni.

This is true. It's a pet peeve of mine that people would call USC or any private school a "directional" school. A private school is simply is NOT a directional school and university presidents know exactly what the term means. A directional school for conference realignment purposes is a non-flagship public school that has a direction in its name.


They are not a directional school, at all.

That said, I refuse to accept the "USC" branding.

They will always be "Southern Cal" to me.

(I will be at the ND/Southern Cal game this weekend, against my better judgment, lol.)
10-17-2017 10:29 AM
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TodgeRodge Offline
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Post: #170
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
the real issue with "names" was never "directional" it was DUAL directional names that university studies showed held back the reputation of a school

southwest, northeast, southeast names like that....they were seen as (often correctly) regional masters level or even almost exclusively undergrad regional state universities and even as some schools drew students from all over the state or even the USA and international and expanded their graduate degrees and research it was hard to shake that regional DUAL directional name association to a small non-research undergrad school
10-17-2017 10:39 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #171
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-17-2017 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-16-2017 03:50 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  I'm still salty about that 2013 season.

South Carolina finished 9th and had 3 teams that we beat (Missouri and UCF on the road, Clemson at home) go to nicer bowls while we got Capital One again. Ended up finishing 4th, but still stinks.

Not only did they go to nicer bowls, they won them. South Carolina beat the Cotton, Fiesta, and Orange Bowl champions that year, and won the Cap One bowl.

Unfortunately, you laid an egg against a bad Tennessee team that year, which cost you the SEC East and a chance to play for the national title.

03-weeping
10-17-2017 12:13 PM
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curtis0620 Offline
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Post: #172
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
The Big 12 should take USF & UCF today.
10-17-2017 12:19 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #173
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success does it make them any more attractive for P5 membership? If the Big 12 somehow continues beyond the expiration of their GOR do they get in as a pair? They bring a pair of nice Florida markets and rich recruiting and could either be put with the 4 Texas schools for a division, creating the opportunity for a a Texas-Oklahoma rematch for a title. Or they could be matched with WVU and the 3 prairie schools.

In order to get an upgrade, you really need to show consistent high level P5 compatibility.

Lets look at USF's resume. They are 6-0, but the teams they've beaten are 6-26 vs FBS. 8-2 vs FCS. Last year they went 11-2, but only beat 3 teams with winning records (best win - over 2 G5 teams with 5 losses). There's not a lot going back beyond the last 5 years to hang one's hat on either. They're not dominating the AAC much less the G5.

And then there's UCF. By the way, they should be the higher ranked team. A legit good win versus Memphis and a good one versus Maryland. Neither of those will get you to the P5 though. In 2016, they finished with a losing record. 2015, they were winless. 2014, Good year for the G5, but went 0-3 vs P5 teams. 2013, Legit P5 candidate season. 2012, 0-2 vs P5 teams.

UCF has had one legit statement year recently. But followed it up with some truly awful play. And they've done that several times. But if you're looking at TCU or Louisville, UCF doesn't really meet that standard.
10-17-2017 12:33 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #174
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-17-2017 12:19 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  The Big 12 should take USF & UCF today.

I agree. I'd make it 4 actually and take Cincinnati and Memphis as well.

It would be a PR hit initially and everyone would bewriting the eulogies of the Big 12, but those four schools all have the potential to grow into strong P5 programs.
10-17-2017 12:36 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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Post: #175
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
Not sure how accurate this is, because some sports writers sometimes convey conflicting interpretations of events. It sounded as if Houston and BYU were the two that came closest to receiving B12 invitations the prior year when the B12 was entertaining applicants and others of interest. Houston seemed obvious, but would be a compromise based on a plausible #12 that would not be so keen with those non-Texas schools with reservations about Houston. Obviously, politics was at play, pro and con. BYU apparently brought most to the table, but the backlash about BYU's controversial Honor Code and other policies whereby they refused to compromise, essentially ended the initiative. UCONN looked appealing, but distance/logistics was seen as a big obstacle.
Memphis, Cincy, UCF, and USF, didn't seem to get much support within the B12, perhaps with some exception from WVU. All this seemed to happen right before ESPN and Fox expressed more public dissatisfaction with the potential expansion, followed by the agreement to embrace further the status quo.

I can understand the frustration of schools such as USF and UCF in their desire to move to the P5. But frankly, expecting the B12 to make an expansion move before 2023-25, is too much wishful thinking. Maybe missing the 4-team playoffs for a couple more years shall spur something, but that is far from assured. If OU and 1 to 4 others leave the B12 in 6 or 7 years when their GoR expires, then that sets in motion all kinds of scenarios.
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2017 10:15 AM by OdinFrigg.)
10-17-2017 01:51 PM
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