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In trying to assess what has happened to our Men's Basketball team, I have been asking myself what has happened in two years to make this season so miserable. Jeff Jones did a masterful coaching job his first two years. He took a 5-25 team that lost it's only legitimate big man and went 18-18. He followed that up by taking a team with one player that was over 6'5" (then freshman Denzell Taylor at 6'7") and got us a brief Top 25 ranking and an NIT Final Four. I was excited to think what he could do when he gets some physically gifted players.

By all accounts, this years team is the biggest, strongest, most athletic team that Jeff Jones has had. So what happened?

Razor mentioned that Jeff Jones has yet to recruit a freshman big man. I thought about that for a while and it hit me. Not only has he not recruited a freshman big man, but he got off to a very slow start on recruiting freshman period.

When Jeff Jones took the job, the first recruiting period was pretty much over. He had Denzell Taylor, Jordan Baker, and Ramone Snowden (I know, let's not revisit that again.) After his first season, however, he did not land any freshman recruits (which would be this year's junior class). This year's junior class consists of Brandon Stith (not himself for injury or whatever reason), Randy Haynes, and Allasane Kah, all transfers. I think that is biting us right now.

In fact, in looking at this year's roster, I only see 4 scholarship players that Jeff Jones has recruited as freshmen: Ahmad Caver, Aaron Carver, Zoran Talley and Xavier Green. All are sophomores or freshmen.

Granted, you always want to keep some room on the roster for a good transfer (Trey Freeman), but maybe we are seeing the limits of trying to build a team with transfers.

Freshman recruiting appears to be picking up with the players mentioned above as well as this year's incoming class. We need to add a freshman big to get some game experience before Brandon Stith graduates.

Anyway, this year has been frustrating on any number of levels, but I am optimistic about the younger guys. Thoughts?

"Brandon Stith (not himself for injury or whatever reason)". Its most certainly the injury. He probably shouldn't even be playing.

We have to add a big man or we are going to be in big trouble next year.

(02-11-2017 10:57 AM)757ODU Wrote:  We have to add a big man or we are going to be in big trouble next year.

We'll have Stith (hopefully healthy) and Porter next year. It's the following year that will be a problem with just Porter.

Would like to see Aaron Carver develop as well. He's still a freshman so who knows?

We will add a big man.

The hardest thing at our level is to recruit freshman big men. When you add the fact that we need players at that position that are skilled it makes it impossible. The JUCO route us a crap shoot but that what we have to utilize. I am a little disappointed that our asst. coaches have not done a better job recruiting overall.

(02-11-2017 11:02 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  The hardest thing at our level is to recruit freshman big men. When you add the fact that we need players at that position that are skilled it makes it impossible. The JUCO route us a crap shoot but that what we have to utilize. I am a little disappointed that our asst. coaches have not done a better job recruiting overall.

Middle Tennessee, UAB, FIU, etc. seem to be able to do it. Blaine Taylor did it.

If it were easy, I would take the job. Jeff Jones is getting paid 6 figures to get this done.

^ Amen. They are out there, just have to find them and convince them to come to ODU. I certainly have nothing against a "project" player, especially a big, but there has to be some clear indication of potential. Not sure how a coach measures this, but we have been notoriously bad at this in the past.

(02-11-2017 11:02 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  The hardest thing at our level is to recruit freshman big men. When you add the fact that we need players at that position that are skilled it makes it impossible. The JUCO route us a crap shoot but that what we have to utilize. I am a little disappointed that our asst. coaches have not done a better job recruiting overall.

Blaine brought in several good to excellent freshman big men during his time at ODU so it can be done. Just have to make it a priority and put in the work to be successful. Some of his guys were from overseas (Laughton, Lee, & Valdas), and some from this country (Cooper, Hassell, & Carter). Not sure which group to put Dahi in. Many of these guys played and contributed as freshmen.

I would prefer recruiting freshmen bigs of this quality over a one or two year transfer unless they were either just too good to pass up, or for some reason the team needs immediate help at the position and an available transfer fills the immediate need. Problem there as I noted in another post is that the transfer group is always going to be smaller and less defined every year which makes it more difficult to make long range plans for developing a team.

A great assessment and I agree completely. Next season is all on JJ - his team - his philosophy on players, etc.
I totally agree that we need to return to the BT system of developing 5 year players - utilizing the red-shirt - and allowing for a transfer if a great opportunity comes along. I don't think the JUCO route is the foundation to build a team on - despite many C-USA utilizing JUCO players. Much more so than when we saw in the CAA. By all accounts we have shooters coming in next year but they will still be Freshman and will have a learning curve. Unfortunately I think we will need some Freshman to play next year as opposed to red-shirting. And - as you pointed out. We desperately need to land a Freshman Big Man. I thought the crop of Asst's we have on the bench would be delivering at a higher level. But - they have to work within the framework established by JJ. Hoping for the best.

(02-11-2017 10:49 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  In trying to assess what has happened to our Men's Basketball team, I have been asking myself what has happened in two years to make this season so miserable. Jeff Jones did a masterful coaching job his first two years. He took a 5-25 team that lost it's only legitimate big man and went 18-18. He followed that up by taking a team with one player that was over 6'5" (then freshman Denzell Taylor at 6'7") and got us a brief Top 25 ranking and an NIT Final Four. I was excited to think what he could do when he gets some physically gifted players.

By all accounts, this years team is the biggest, strongest, most athletic team that Jeff Jones has had. So what happened?

Razor mentioned that Jeff Jones has yet to recruit a freshman big man. I thought about that for a while and it hit me. Not only has he not recruited a freshman big man, but he got off to a very slow start on recruiting freshman period.

When Jeff Jones took the job, the first recruiting period was pretty much over. He had Denzell Taylor, Jordan Baker, and Ramone Snowden (I know, let's not revisit that again.) After his first season, however, he did not land any freshman recruits (which would be this year's junior class). This year's junior class consists of Brandon Stith (not himself for injury or whatever reason), Randy Haynes, and Allasane Kah, all transfers. I think that is biting us right now.

In fact, in looking at this year's roster, I only see 4 scholarship players that Jeff Jones has recruited as freshmen: Ahmad Caver, Aaron Carver, Zoran Talley and Xavier Green. All are sophomores or freshmen.

Granted, you always want to keep some room on the roster for a good transfer (Trey Freeman), but maybe we are seeing the limits of trying to build a team with transfers.

Freshman recruiting appears to be picking up with the players mentioned above as well as this year's incoming class. We need to add a freshman big to get some game experience before Brandon Stith graduates.

Anyway, this year has been frustrating on any number of levels, but I am optimistic about the younger guys. Thoughts?

What happened is we just lost one of the best players in the history of ODU basketball. Trey Freeman provided not only points on the court but leadership abilities both on and off the court. He was somebody who led by example and I think all of the players really looked up to him. Losing him was every bit as detrimental to the basketball team as was losing Taylor Heinecke to the football team. But after one sub-par year the football team got back on track. I believe the same thing will happen with mens basketball. Consider this a rebuilding year...all teams have them.

A couple really nice shooter will help. Without shooters, Shaquille O'Neil, Patrick Ewing, or Hakeem O. would have a hard time leading a team to a championship.


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To me when you talk about big men I think of players 6 Feet 9 Inches and above and the way I recall the past we only had one mabey two at the most that size at one time. Some of the time that second one like Larson or the New Zealander were for the most part insignificant. I like the way Taylor plays defense but scoring and free throw shooting when he is in is very disappointing.

I'd gladly have a team like the Warriors if that's where we're heading. =] 2 or 3 lights out shooters and 2 or 3 6'6-6'7" guys that can really crash the boards.

I'm glad we recruited two guys that can shoot the ball, but your program is in rough shape when it relies on guys coming in next year to significantly contribute.

Randy Haynes and Allasane Kah were our supposed saviors last season. "Finally we will have a post player that can shoot from the outside". We all know that hasn't turned out like it was hyped.

I hope both recruits are studs, but spot up shooters aren't typically effective in college without playmakers around them and we have only one guy that can play off the dribble.

(02-11-2017 11:07 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 11:02 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  The hardest thing at our level is to recruit freshman big men. When you add the fact that we need players at that position that are skilled it makes it impossible. The JUCO route us a crap shoot but that what we have to utilize. I am a little disappointed that our asst. coaches have not done a better job recruiting overall.

Middle Tennessee, UAB, FIU, etc. seem to be able to do it. Blaine Taylor did it.

If it were easy, I would take the job. Jeff Jones is getting paid 6 figures to get this done.

I did not say he should not or could not....I just said it was extremely difficult.

(02-11-2017 10:49 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  In trying to assess what has happened to our Men's Basketball team, I have been asking myself what has happened in two years to make this season so miserable. Jeff Jones did a masterful coaching job his first two years. He took a 5-25 team that lost it's only legitimate big man and went 18-18. He followed that up by taking a team with one player that was over 6'5" (then freshman Denzell Taylor at 6'7") and got us a brief Top 25 ranking and an NIT Final Four. I was excited to think what he could do when he gets some physically gifted players.

By all accounts, this years team is the biggest, strongest, most athletic team that Jeff Jones has had. So what happened?

Razor mentioned that Jeff Jones has yet to recruit a freshman big man. I thought about that for a while and it hit me. Not only has he not recruited a freshman big man, but he got off to a very slow start on recruiting freshman period.

When Jeff Jones took the job, the first recruiting period was pretty much over. He had Denzell Taylor, Jordan Baker, and Ramone Snowden (I know, let's not revisit that again.) After his first season, however, he did not land any freshman recruits (which would be this year's junior class). This year's junior class consists of Brandon Stith (not himself for injury or whatever reason), Randy Haynes, and Allasane Kah, all transfers. I think that is biting us right now.

In fact, in looking at this year's roster, I only see 4 scholarship players that Jeff Jones has recruited as freshmen: Ahmad Caver, Aaron Carver, Zoran Talley and Xavier Green. All are sophomores or freshmen.

Granted, you always want to keep some room on the roster for a good transfer (Trey Freeman), but maybe we are seeing the limits of trying to build a team with transfers.

Freshman recruiting appears to be picking up with the players mentioned above as well as this year's incoming class. We need to add a freshman big to get some game experience before Brandon Stith graduates.

Anyway, this year has been frustrating on any number of levels, but I am optimistic about the younger guys. Thoughts?

You make some good points BB35. I think we tend to forget how much our program was in the dumps when Jones took it over. Blaine Taylor was holding this program together on a thin thread. Not only were Baker and Taylor the only recruits but we had nothing from the class before either, except for Bacote, who was a great get. I think part of all of that is why Jones went the JUCO route so early with Ebondo, Douglas,, and even Pervier.

I blame Blaine Taylor as much for tearing down our program than Jones inability to bring in some freshman impact players right away. Some people may disagree with that, but at a time when our program should have been flourishing we were bringing in guys like Pimemtel, some 6'8" white kid from a prep school up north, and some other kid ( can't even recall his name) that didn't belong in D1.

For that reason I don't necessarily say I give Jones a pass for this season because I think this team has underperformed but I am not ready ( like some on here) that thinks he should be fired or that we are not going anywhere.
From all accounts I hear Green is a stud and he looks the part in warmups. He has good size, a great looking shot and great hops. I understand they are grooming him to be a PG. Whether he is a PG or SG he could be a real star in the future. You throw him into the mix with our returning lineup and the freshmen we have coming in and I am super excited for next year.

I have loved watching Denzel Taylor and Jordon Baker these last 4 years but I believe this coaching staff is bringing in guys that can put the ball in the hole. It may not have come to fruition yet but we are still young in that regard. I don't think the cupboard is bare by any stretch and our best days are ahead.

The one glaring weakness I see has already been mentioned above. This staff has yet to bring in a freshman big that can contribute but getting back to my earlier comment I will blame some of that on the urgency to bring in players that could contribute right away. Say what you want about our recruiting but Jones and staff knew they had a strong backcourt in Freeman and Bacote and tried to bring players in immediately in the front court to contribute. It didn't work out too well unfortunately except for transfers Stith and Porter this year. Douglas could have possibly put us over the top last year If he had behaved and Privier was a bust. I hope the coaching staff can find a freshman big soon to round out our 2017 class or find one for the next season in the early signing period. Then our spirits will all be lifted a little.

(02-11-2017 04:15 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 10:49 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  In trying to assess what has happened to our Men's Basketball team, I have been asking myself what has happened in two years to make this season so miserable. Jeff Jones did a masterful coaching job his first two years. He took a 5-25 team that lost it's only legitimate big man and went 18-18. He followed that up by taking a team with one player that was over 6'5" (then freshman Denzell Taylor at 6'7") and got us a brief Top 25 ranking and an NIT Final Four. I was excited to think what he could do when he gets some physically gifted players.

By all accounts, this years team is the biggest, strongest, most athletic team that Jeff Jones has had. So what happened?

Razor mentioned that Jeff Jones has yet to recruit a freshman big man. I thought about that for a while and it hit me. Not only has he not recruited a freshman big man, but he got off to a very slow start on recruiting freshman period.

When Jeff Jones took the job, the first recruiting period was pretty much over. He had Denzell Taylor, Jordan Baker, and Ramone Snowden (I know, let's not revisit that again.) After his first season, however, he did not land any freshman recruits (which would be this year's junior class). This year's junior class consists of Brandon Stith (not himself for injury or whatever reason), Randy Haynes, and Allasane Kah, all transfers. I think that is biting us right now.

In fact, in looking at this year's roster, I only see 4 scholarship players that Jeff Jones has recruited as freshmen: Ahmad Caver, Aaron Carver, Zoran Talley and Xavier Green. All are sophomores or freshmen.

Granted, you always want to keep some room on the roster for a good transfer (Trey Freeman), but maybe we are seeing the limits of trying to build a team with transfers.

Freshman recruiting appears to be picking up with the players mentioned above as well as this year's incoming class. We need to add a freshman big to get some game experience before Brandon Stith graduates.

Anyway, this year has been frustrating on any number of levels, but I am optimistic about the younger guys. Thoughts?

You make some good points BB35. I think we tend to forget how much our program was in the dumps when Jones took it over. Blaine Taylor was holding this program together on a thin thread. Not only were Baker and Taylor the only recruits but we had nothing from the class before either, except for Bacote, who was a great get. I think part of all of that is why Jones went the JUCO route so early with Ebondo, Douglas,, and even Pervier.

I blame Blaine Taylor as much for tearing down our program than Jones inability to bring in some freshman impact players right away. Some people may disagree with that, but at a time when our program should have been flourishing we were bringing in guys like Pimemtel, some 6'8" white kid from a prep school up north, and some other kid ( can't even recall his name) that didn't belong in D1.

For that reason I don't necessarily say I give Jones a pass for this season because I think this team has underperformed but I am not ready ( like some on here) that thinks he should be fired or that we are not going anywhere.
From all accounts I hear Green is a stud and he looks the part in warmups. He has good size, a great looking shot and great hops. I understand they are grooming him to be a PG. Whether he is a PG or SG he could be a real star in the future. You throw him into the mix with our returning lineup and the freshmen we have coming in and I am super excited for next year.

I have loved watching Denzel Taylor and Jordon Baker these last 4 years but I believe this coaching staff is bringing in guys that can put the ball in the hole. It may not have come to fruition yet but we are still young in that regard. I don't think the cupboard is bare by any stretch and our best days are ahead.

The one glaring weakness I see has already been mentioned above. This staff has yet to bring in a freshman big that can contribute but getting back to my earlier comment I will blame some of that on the urgency to bring in players that could contribute right away. Say what you want about our recruiting but Jones and staff knew they had a strong backcourt in Freeman and Bacote and tried to bring players in immediately in the front court to contribute. It didn't work out too well unfortunately except for transfers Stith and Porter this year. Douglas could have possibly put us over the top last year If he had behaved and Privier was a bust. I hope the coaching staff can find a freshman big soon to round out our 2017 class or find one for the next season in the early signing period. Then our spirits will all be lifted a little.

Nice post


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(02-11-2017 10:57 AM)757ODU Wrote:  We have to add a big man or we are going to be in big trouble next year.

Agree. And if we had one right now, Stith could play his natural position. Every time I see him banging against bigger guys, I think the same thing...how good would he be if he could ever have someone his size (or smaller) trying to guard him? They have got to do a better job--even if the big is a project. We need someone that is 6'8" or above that can bang inside. Personally I'd play Porter with him anyway and just let the big lefty spell them both for a few minutes at a time.

(02-11-2017 11:01 AM)mac Wrote:  We will add a big man.

We'd better, and a good one at that.