(02-08-2017 10:56 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's some other things I've been spit balling around. When you remove the best kids from public schools into their own little "magnet" school you harm both populations. One set gets a faux elite status. They become out of touch. You definitely see this with homeschooled kids. They just aren't as socially up to speed. Whenever a home schooled kid tries to get back into orbit at my school we ALWAYS have some sort of trouble with them. Fighting with peers. Parents want special treatment. It happens.

On the flip side whenever you have strivers in your group it raises the level of all of those around. This is the major reason I think northern schools do better than the southern schools on educating the whole. Look at ACT scores or IQ scores from state to state. I'm not saying you can't find elite schools in the south because you can, I just think they do a crappy job of educating the whole. They don't have the "buy in" to improve public schools because their kids are off in elite land.

Just my 2 cents.

We have experienced this as well. When I taught at middle school, we frequently got kids that were either home schooled or private schooled through 6th grade.

Talk about "special snowflakes" those kids typically got bullied, their parents were completely out of touch when it came to grades, and they just were not socially read for middle school. Academically, they were great but socially not at all. They got eaten up by public school kids.

(02-08-2017 10:56 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's some other things I've been spit balling around. When you remove the best kids from public schools into their own little "magnet" school...

You pull down the average score at the "regular schools". I think that's all the left cares about at the end of the day. That's why we have kids busing much further than necessary. The bottom line in education is that achievement isn't about the teachers as much as it's about the parents. Shuffle the high achievers and flunkies around enough and the average test scores balance out creating a faux achievement metric for teachers unions.

(02-08-2017 08:42 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The problem with these magnet schools or privates. They improve maybe 15% at the expense of the 85%. Why not fund all schools to a certain level?

Oh ffs...

Magnants get funded at about the same rate as regular schools... Charters get *less funding* than regular schools

Its not about the damn funding, if it were Minneapolis would have the best schools in Minnesota (they don't).

Quote:Keeps people ignorant and dumb and voting Red.

Who want's to keep people ignorant? you want to screw over the 15-20% of kids whos parents are involved and want them to be in a better school. You know how much trouble 5 bad kids in a class of 20 can be, five kids who you have to slow down for. There are five other kids in that class ready for more material, ready to learn more, ready to excel...

The five on the other end are slowing them down. Not because they are stupid but because mom and dad do not push them to do their homework, do not come to conferences, and teach them the value and privilege of education.

Quote:Global warming is this evil hoax. Evolution is the work of the devil.

Screw you Mach, seriously... ohhhh yea... those dumb charter school republicans don't teach kids math and science at charters... FFS..

My kids go to a charter and are placing in the top 90% or so nationally in math and science. They are in a school composed largely or poor refugees who's parents are involved and within a generation most will escape poverty.

If not for the charter I could afford a private school or just put my kids in the nice cushy suburban district in which I reside. (And my district still spends way less than Minneapolis)

The other parents at this school... Their kids would be in a far worse school where 10-30% of the parents don't care enough to make sure their kids are in classes.

You, and your union, would be ok with condemning a lot of these refugees to a worse classroom environment for the sake of protecting your own institution.

Quote:Reality has a liberal bias.

No Mach... Reality has a reality bias.

(02-08-2017 11:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 10:56 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's some other things I've been spit balling around. When you remove the best kids from public schools into their own little "magnet" school you harm both populations. One set gets a faux elite status. They become out of touch. You definitely see this with homeschooled kids. They just aren't as socially up to speed. Whenever a home schooled kid tries to get back into orbit at my school we ALWAYS have some sort of trouble with them. Fighting with peers. Parents want special treatment. It happens.

On the flip side whenever you have strivers in your group it raises the level of all of those around. This is the major reason I think northern schools do better than the southern schools on educating the whole. Look at ACT scores or IQ scores from state to state. I'm not saying you can't find elite schools in the south because you can, I just think they do a crappy job of educating the whole. They don't have the "buy in" to improve public schools because their kids are off in elite land.

Just my 2 cents.

We have experienced this as well. When I taught at middle school, we frequently got kids that were either home schooled or private schooled through 6th grade.

Talk about "special snowflakes" those kids typically got bullied, their parents were completely out of touch when it came to grades, and they just were not socially read for middle school. Academically, they were great but socially not at all. They got eaten up by public school kids.

So the answer is to be sure we stick them in with the bullies earlier... gotcha..

(02-08-2017 09:13 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's an end around Brown vs. Board of Ed and a way to fund Billy Bob's Baptist school with public money.

Both of my older kids is are only white person in their respective classes (and they are only half white). I can count the total number of whites in my kids school on two hands (less than 5% of the student body)..

Care to try again.

(02-08-2017 09:13 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's an end around Brown vs. Board of Ed and a way to fund Billy Bob's Baptist school with public money.

Your teacher's union points are not working anymore.

http://gacharters.org/operate-a-school/f...ers-in-ga/

Quote:Demographics for all charter school types
There are 46.31% White and 30.8% Black students enrolled in charter schools in Georgia.
71% Hispanic
8% Asian
1% Multi-Racial
1% Pacific Islander

For start-up charters
40% White
45% Black
7.5% Hispanic

(02-08-2017 11:55 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 11:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 10:56 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's some other things I've been spit balling around. When you remove the best kids from public schools into their own little "magnet" school you harm both populations. One set gets a faux elite status. They become out of touch. You definitely see this with homeschooled kids. They just aren't as socially up to speed. Whenever a home schooled kid tries to get back into orbit at my school we ALWAYS have some sort of trouble with them. Fighting with peers. Parents want special treatment. It happens.

On the flip side whenever you have strivers in your group it raises the level of all of those around. This is the major reason I think northern schools do better than the southern schools on educating the whole. Look at ACT scores or IQ scores from state to state. I'm not saying you can't find elite schools in the south because you can, I just think they do a crappy job of educating the whole. They don't have the "buy in" to improve public schools because their kids are off in elite land.

Just my 2 cents.

We have experienced this as well. When I taught at middle school, we frequently got kids that were either home schooled or private schooled through 6th grade.

Talk about "special snowflakes" those kids typically got bullied, their parents were completely out of touch when it came to grades, and they just were not socially read for middle school. Academically, they were great but socially not at all. They got eaten up by public school kids.

So the answer is to be sure we stick them in with the bullies earlier... gotcha..

Add childhood psychological warfare and self defense training to the homeschool curriculum.

Good grief fit, you just dig a deeper hole with every post.

(02-08-2017 12:12 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 11:55 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 11:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  We have experienced this as well. When I taught at middle school, we frequently got kids that were either home schooled or private schooled through 6th grade.

Talk about "special snowflakes" those kids typically got bullied, their parents were completely out of touch when it came to grades, and they just were not socially read for middle school. Academically, they were great but socially not at all. They got eaten up by public school kids.

So the answer is to be sure we stick them in with the bullies earlier... gotcha..

Add childhood psychological warfare and self defense training to the homeschool curriculum.

Good grief fit, you just dig a deeper hole with every post.

I know, talk about Logic fail

FIT: I work in this system where we take kids, educate them to a level lower than Home school kids *AND* we turn them into bullies. You should totally put your kids in my school.

Should evolution be taught in schools? If they are taking public money absolutely YES!

(02-08-2017 12:41 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Should evolution be taught in schools? If they are taking public money absolutely YES!

has what to do with what now?

Catholic schools in the United States teach evolution as part of their science curriculum. They teach the fact that evolution occurs and the modern evolutionary synthesis, which is the scientific theory that explains how evolution proceeds.

Magnent school teach evolution

Chater schools teach evolution

Nearly every state, and local science test will at some point include material in evolution.

You know for all your whinging on about people obsessed with niche issues and missing the big picture you sure are running around with this one thing, which is not even true, and trying to use it as a fix all to what you don't like.

Billy Bob Baptist schools teach creationism and there is a big movement with intelligent design folks creeping around too.

(02-08-2017 01:33 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Billy Bob Baptist schools teach creationism and there is a big movement with intelligent design folks creeping around too.

Those are neither charter, nor magnents...

And can you please point me at "billy bob baptist school" please? Some context and sources for your allegations would be helpful.

And, you're a real head slapper today... "Intelligent design" is not in opposition of evolution. Keep trying to muddy up the water.

(02-08-2017 01:33 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Billy Bob Baptist schools teach creationism and there is a big movement with intelligent design folks creeping around too.

so what?

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That's the point. She wants to create public vouchers so kids can get indoctrinated in flawed or wrong material. Our founding fathers are turning over in their graves. Seperation of church and state. No public money to Billy Bob or Charters.

Bad news.

These cast of characters. Let's arbitrarily help out 15% at the expense of the 85. So sad.

This is why the Suprem Court is so important. This stuff would never fly under a normal court.

(02-08-2017 01:50 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  That's the point. She wants to create public vouchers so kids can get indoctrinated in flawed or wrong material. Our founding fathers are turning over in their graves. Seperation of church and state. No public money to Billy Bob or Charters.

Link to billy bobs baptists school?

And stop conflating charters and privates... I know you're having trouble seeing through all that blind rage so I will say it slow.

Charter
Schools
Are
Public
Schools

(02-08-2017 01:51 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  These cast of characters. Let's arbitrarily help out 15% at the expense of the 85. So sad.

Putting aside that you've yet to demonstrate the damage my kid going to a charter school does to our local schools classroom... The idea of helping those who want to be helped is still better than... Lets make it hopeless for everyone except the union bosses and teachers.

My son went to private church school through 8th grade. He always had public school friends so he never had the social problems. His mom moved to a better school district the summer before he entered 9th grade, so he moved to a public school. He was way ahead of pace academically, and continued to perform there throughout HS and university, but it did make his scheduling a bit awkward during that first transitional semester. He ended up in an 8 o'clock geography class that was basically a jelly-roll course for the football team. By then he had pretty much travelled the whole world, so I think he ended up teaching the course about as much as the football assistant coach who was the teacher, and helping everybody else make their grades. His mother called me, concerned that he wasn't really going to be learning much in the class. I replied, "Let me get this straight. He's in his first year in a new school after 8 years of (relatively sheltered) private school, and he's who is keeping the football team eligible, and you think that's a problem?" She saw my point, and he never got picked on.