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How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
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Wilkie01 Online
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Post: #51
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-06-2017 07:31 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  First, please don't debate whether so-called "bathroom bills" are right or wrong, or if California is right/wrong on prohibiting travel to these states. I don't want this thread to end up in the Spin Room. I want to discuss how this affects college sports.


California has banned any "STATE-FUNDED AND STATE-SPONSORED TRAVEL" to states with transgender bathroom bills. I have confirmed that this includes any travel by any university representative that will be reimbursed by any source affiliated with the university (including the endowment or other private donors arranged through the school). To my knowledge, this includes the sports team of any state-sponsored university.

As of now, the list of banned states is Tennessee, Kansas, Mississippi, and North Carolina. Also, a dozen more states (including Washington and Wyoming) have introduced "bathroom bills" to their legislatures this year.

If Washington or Wyoming pass their bathroom bills, this means that conference games will have to be canceled for Cal & UCLA or for San Diego State, Fresno State, and San Jose State. Could this cause more conference reallignment? Or will the state schools in Washington/Wyoming (or whoever else passes a bathroom bill) abandon their right to home conference games?

I hope everyone keeps it civil.

No problem, it will end with a "Clean Wipe". 07-coffee3
02-11-2017 12:12 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #52
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-09-2017 08:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Since this appears headed to the Spin Room anyway... I get that some people want to spin this as a discrimination issue. If the argument is framed that LGBTQ2010 = Black1950, that frames the argument correctly for you to win.

In some situations, such as the treatment by police prior to the 70s, that's the proper way to look at it. No one should be arrested because of their lifestyle.

But the transgender issue is completely, 100% different. When you choose to go under the knife, that's a choice. It's perfectly legal to discriminate against people because of their voluntary actions. If someone consistently makes bad decisions, it's legally and morally ok to treat them differently. People with visible tattoos, outlandish hairstyles, or drinking habits (which has a lot more documented genetic links than homosexuality) are discriminated against all the time. Often by the government itself.

We can have debate over whether that's right or wrong for people to change their bodies, but that doesn't make it a civil rights issue.

So people who disagree with you aren't evil, and don't deserve to lose their jobs. YOUR attitude towards people who disagree with you is what inspires the fear that brought on Trump. Today the "fear" that most people feel of LGBTQ individuals is a fear that I'll lose my job if it is revealed that I disagree with them.

Conservatives don't think that transgenders should be arrested. Or prevented from making a living. It's a strawman argument when you phrase it that way - no one is saying that. Quite frankly, most people who are against transgenders feel pity for them, not fear.

I doubt that UCLA/Cal would leave the PAC over Washington and Washington State games. I think that the schools themselves have a good relationship. My guess is that they'd just start playing neutral site games w/ the cali schools. They might even agree to unequal revenue sharing to compensate the Washington schools.

Also, conference schedules would also probably be modified to minimize Cali vs Wash games.
02-11-2017 02:07 AM
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XLance Online
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Post: #53
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
Everybody seems to have their own take or understanding.
This is an interpretation of what HB2 says:

House Bill 2, or HB2 as it's usually identified, has generated national controversy for allegedly creating or fostering discrimination against transgender-identified and gay-identified citizens in North Carolina. Much of the criticism though, comes from media, LGBT activists and their allies, as well as large corporations that either haven't read the bill, or are counting on the public's lack of knowledge of the law's language, in order to discredit the religious freedom legislation.

The North Carolina Legislature convened an emergency session in March 2016 to respond to the passage of a local non-discrimination ordinance by the city council of Charlotte, which granted special rights on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. The ordinance went beyond existing state law and posed problems in the areas of privacy and public safety, as well as religious freedom. The problems with the type of ordinance passed by Charlotte, called a "SOGI" law, are detailed here.

HB2 Explained

So what does HB2 actually say?

The following three parts correspond to the bill's three primary sections, and you can follow along and verify this explanation at the link highlighted above.

Part I: Statewide Standards For Public (e.g., Government-Owned) Bathrooms And Changing Facilities

Multiple-Occupancy Facilities Restricted On The Basis Of Biological Sex.

HB2 requires citizens using government-owned, multiple occupancy restrooms/changing rooms (including public schools) to use the facility in keeping with their biological sex, defined as the condition of being male or female, as stated on their birth certificate:

"Public agencies [and local boards of education] shall require every multiple occupancy bathroom or changing facility to be designated for and only used by persons based on their biological sex."

Single-Occupancy Facilities Are Permitted.

The law does not prohibit the provision of single-occupancy facilities as an accommodation for anyone requesting it:

"Nothing in this section shall prohibit public agencies [or local boards of education] from providing accommodations such as single occupancy bathroom or changing facilities upon a person's request due to special circumstances …"

Why Does North Carolina Need A "Statewide" Policy?

Statewide policies such as HB2 allow North Carolina citizens to travel freely within the state with a common understanding of what to expect when they enter a government-owned restroom or locker room. There should be no unwelcome surprises based on different laws created by different cities and counties.

Private Businesses.

HB2 does not impact private businesses in the area of bathroom or changing facility requirements. Companies and businesses are free to establish whatever policies they wish in their facilities for their employees and customers.

Part II: Creates Statewide Standards For Government Contractors, Including Non-Discrimination

Like Part I, Part 2, dealing with government contractors ― those who bid on and perform government contracts for both the state and local governments ― establishes statewide standards pertaining to what contractors may be required to do with regard to their own employment policies ― including non-discrimination requirements ― for the duration of, and pertaining to, government contracts awarded in North Carolina, and preempts local ordinances related to the subject.


Beyond What The State Requirements Impose, However, Private Company Policies Remain Unaffected.

While working on government projects in North Carolina, contractors are free to create any internal employee policies for those projects that do not conflict with state law. If they desire, they can adopt non-discrimination policies that protect various classes of persons beyond what the state of North Carolina requires for them on government projects. But local governments are precluded from requiring them to do so.

Part III: State Non-Discrimination Law In Employment And Public Accommodations Is A Matter Of Statewide Concern, And State Law Preempts Local Nondiscrimination Ordinances

Employment Law.

The relevant portion of HB2 concerning employment non-discrimination requirements for business in North Carolina states:

"The General Assembly declares that the regulation of discriminatory practices in employment is properly an issue of general, statewide concern, such that this Article and other applicable provisions of the General Statutes supersede and preempt any ordinance, regulation, resolution or policy adopted or imposed by a unit of local government…"

The purpose behind statewide uniformity in non-discrimination law is to make it easy for businesses operating in the state to comply with the law without having to learn and deal with competing provisions in various cities and counties within the state. A business with offices in Raleigh and Charlotte, for example, would need to learn and comply with only one set of rules, making the business climate more encouraging, thus helping to improve the North Carolina economy.

Private Business Employment Policies Are Unaffected.

Nothing in HB2 prevents a private business from creating its own internal policies of non-discrimination that includes any groups it wants, LGBT or otherwise. Most of the major corporations that have publicly complained about HB2 already have internal policies that cover LGBT issues, so HB2 would presumably not affect them.

Public Accommodations.

Public accommodations are private businesses open to the public and/or doing business with the public, as well as government-owned public facilities. HB2 once again, as it did in Parts I and II of the bill, creates a statewide law that preempts local ordinances:

"The General Assembly declares that the regulation of discriminatory practices in places of public accommodation is properly an issue of general, statewide concern, such that this Article and other applicable provisions of the General Statutes supersede and preempt any ordinance…adopted or imposed by a unit of local government…"

Private Business Practices Are Unaffected.

HB2 sets a baseline for non-discrimination. Private businesses can set any standard above HB2's baseline that they desire for their employees and customers.

The Bottom Line

North Carolina Law Has Not Changed.

Prior to HB2, North Carolina public bathrooms and changing facilities were always restricted to male or female based on biology, and state law protected against discrimination in employment and public accommodations and government contracting on the basis of "race, religion, color, national origin, age, sex or handicap…" This is in keeping with federal civil rights law. The state's non-discrimination law is the same now, after HB2, as it was before HB2, except that HB2 amends the word "sex" to mean "biological sex."

HB2 Does Not Target Anyone For Discrimination.

It does not mention sexual orientation or gender identity. It does not limit private businesses from establishing their own policies in these matters. It merely re-states previous state law in a few key areas, and by reserving such law-making to the state legislature, it preempts local governments from creating a patchwork of inconsistent laws across the state. Such uniformity across the state prevents local governments from infringing the religious conscience of its citizens, and improves the overall economic climate for business growth.
02-11-2017 09:57 AM
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Sparty84 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-06-2017 08:13 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 07:37 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 07:31 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  First, please don't debate whether so-called "bathroom bills" are right or wrong, or if California is right/wrong on prohibiting travel to these states. I don't want this thread to end up in the Spin Room. I want to discuss how this affects college sports.


California has banned any "STATE-FUNDED AND STATE-SPONSORED TRAVEL" to states with transgender bathroom bills. I have confirmed that this includes any travel by any university representative that will be reimbursed by any source affiliated with the university (including the endowment or other private donors arranged through the school). To my knowledge, this includes the sports team of any state-sponsored university.

As of now, the list of banned states is Tennessee, Kansas, Mississippi, and North Carolina. Also, a dozen more states (including Washington and Wyoming) have introduced "bathroom bills" to their legislatures this year.

If Washington or Wyoming pass their bathroom bills, this means that conference games will have to be canceled for Cal & UCLA or for San Diego State, Fresno State, and San Jose State. Could this cause more conference reallignment? Or will the state schools in Washington/Wyoming (or whoever else passes a bathroom bill) abandon their right to home conference games?

I hope everyone keeps it civil.

According to your link, Texas is in that list. Houston is a state school, so I guess San Diego St can't play Houston on the road if they ever join the AAC's western wing. They can't play us (ECU) or Memphis either if that link means what you are saying.
Cheers!

The link you're referring to is the list of the states that are considering bathroom bills. Texas hasn't passed a bathroom bill yet. The full list:

Already Passed a Bathroom Bill
Kansas
Mississippi
North Carolina
Tennessee

Has a Bathroom Bill Introduced to the Legislature, but hasn't passed it yet:
Alabama
Illinois
Kansas (I don't know why they're on this list too)
Kentucky
Minnesota
Missouri
South Carolina
Texas
Washington
Wyoming

It also says, "Legislation in 10 states is pending (as of 2/1/17). Legislation in South Dakota and Virginia failed to pass."

I live in TN. There is not a bathroom bill passed in this state yet. It was introduced and tabled last year. It has been re-introduced in the legislature again this year.

I think that TN is on the list because they passed a law last year that allows mental health professionals to discriminate against patients based on the religious beliefs of the provider. This is in direct contradiction to the national ethics of these providers.

That being said. I think that this could cause huge entanglements with college sports. I wonder if the conferences are required to abide by NCAA rules. Especially since the NCAA has taken issue with NC Bathroom Bill.

For the record i am gay but will not comment on the politics of this matter out of respect for the poster.
02-11-2017 10:12 AM
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Sparty84 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-07-2017 09:06 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The bathroom bill not so much

The larger question of social construct gender vs biological/genetic sex though has huge implications for women's collegiate sports. For example, if men who identify as women are allowed to play on women's teams, how long before few if any biological females are playing college basketball?

Interesting thought. I have some male to female transexual friends. The ones that i know are not transing to female to be butch masculine women. It may become and issue as you suggest, but i dont think so for male to female.

I could absolutely see female to male transgender people playing in male sports though. I am not sure how that is an issue though since most of them take testosterone so they would be competing on the same level except for maybe height. Trust me there are some beefy muscled up transgender women out there.

I have looked at a few before and thought "damn he is built like a **** brick house" before i realized that he didn't have all of the equipment to make my interest in him worthwhile.
02-11-2017 10:22 AM
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XLance Online
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Post: #56
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-11-2017 10:12 AM)Sparty84 Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 08:13 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 07:37 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 07:31 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  First, please don't debate whether so-called "bathroom bills" are right or wrong, or if California is right/wrong on prohibiting travel to these states. I don't want this thread to end up in the Spin Room. I want to discuss how this affects college sports.


California has banned any "STATE-FUNDED AND STATE-SPONSORED TRAVEL" to states with transgender bathroom bills. I have confirmed that this includes any travel by any university representative that will be reimbursed by any source affiliated with the university (including the endowment or other private donors arranged through the school). To my knowledge, this includes the sports team of any state-sponsored university.

As of now, the list of banned states is Tennessee, Kansas, Mississippi, and North Carolina. Also, a dozen more states (including Washington and Wyoming) have introduced "bathroom bills" to their legislatures this year.

If Washington or Wyoming pass their bathroom bills, this means that conference games will have to be canceled for Cal & UCLA or for San Diego State, Fresno State, and San Jose State. Could this cause more conference reallignment? Or will the state schools in Washington/Wyoming (or whoever else passes a bathroom bill) abandon their right to home conference games?

I hope everyone keeps it civil.

According to your link, Texas is in that list. Houston is a state school, so I guess San Diego St can't play Houston on the road if they ever join the AAC's western wing. They can't play us (ECU) or Memphis either if that link means what you are saying.
Cheers!

The link you're referring to is the list of the states that are considering bathroom bills. Texas hasn't passed a bathroom bill yet. The full list:

Already Passed a Bathroom Bill
Kansas
Mississippi
North Carolina
Tennessee

Has a Bathroom Bill Introduced to the Legislature, but hasn't passed it yet:
Alabama
Illinois
Kansas (I don't know why they're on this list too)
Kentucky
Minnesota
Missouri
South Carolina
Texas
Washington
Wyoming

It also says, "Legislation in 10 states is pending (as of 2/1/17). Legislation in South Dakota and Virginia failed to pass."

I live in TN. There is not a bathroom bill passed in this state yet. It was introduced and tabled last year. It has been re-introduced in the legislature again this year.

I think that TN is on the list because they passed a law last year that allows mental health professionals to discriminate against patients based on the religious beliefs of the provider. This is in direct contradiction to the national ethics of these providers.

That being said. I think that this could cause huge entanglements with college sports. I wonder if the conferences are required to abide by NCAA rules. Especially since the NCAA has taken issue with NC Bathroom Bill.

For the record i am gay but will not comment on the politics of this matter out of respect for the poster.

Does being a homosexual alter the bathrooms that you use?
02-11-2017 12:10 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #57
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-11-2017 09:57 AM)XLance Wrote:  Everybody seems to have their own take or understanding.
This is an interpretation of what HB2 says:

House Bill 2, or HB2 as it's usually identified, has generated national controversy for allegedly creating or fostering discrimination against transgender-identified and gay-identified citizens in North Carolina. Much of the criticism though, comes from media, LGBT activists and their allies, as well as large corporations that either haven't read the bill, or are counting on the public's lack of knowledge of the law's language, in order to discredit the religious freedom legislation.

The North Carolina Legislature convened an emergency session in March 2016 to respond to the passage of a local non-discrimination ordinance by the city council of Charlotte, which granted special rights on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. The ordinance went beyond existing state law and posed problems in the areas of privacy and public safety, as well as religious freedom. The problems with the type of ordinance passed by Charlotte, called a "SOGI" law, are detailed here.

HB2 Explained

So what does HB2 actually say?

The following three parts correspond to the bill's three primary sections, and you can follow along and verify this explanation at the link highlighted above.

Part I: Statewide Standards For Public (e.g., Government-Owned) Bathrooms And Changing Facilities

Multiple-Occupancy Facilities Restricted On The Basis Of Biological Sex.

HB2 requires citizens using government-owned, multiple occupancy restrooms/changing rooms (including public schools) to use the facility in keeping with their biological sex, defined as the condition of being male or female, as stated on their birth certificate:

"Public agencies [and local boards of education] shall require every multiple occupancy bathroom or changing facility to be designated for and only used by persons based on their biological sex."

Single-Occupancy Facilities Are Permitted.

The law does not prohibit the provision of single-occupancy facilities as an accommodation for anyone requesting it:

"Nothing in this section shall prohibit public agencies [or local boards of education] from providing accommodations such as single occupancy bathroom or changing facilities upon a person's request due to special circumstances …"

Why Does North Carolina Need A "Statewide" Policy?

Statewide policies such as HB2 allow North Carolina citizens to travel freely within the state with a common understanding of what to expect when they enter a government-owned restroom or locker room. There should be no unwelcome surprises based on different laws created by different cities and counties.

Private Businesses.

HB2 does not impact private businesses in the area of bathroom or changing facility requirements. Companies and businesses are free to establish whatever policies they wish in their facilities for their employees and customers.

Part II: Creates Statewide Standards For Government Contractors, Including Non-Discrimination

Like Part I, Part 2, dealing with government contractors ― those who bid on and perform government contracts for both the state and local governments ― establishes statewide standards pertaining to what contractors may be required to do with regard to their own employment policies ― including non-discrimination requirements ― for the duration of, and pertaining to, government contracts awarded in North Carolina, and preempts local ordinances related to the subject.


Beyond What The State Requirements Impose, However, Private Company Policies Remain Unaffected.

While working on government projects in North Carolina, contractors are free to create any internal employee policies for those projects that do not conflict with state law. If they desire, they can adopt non-discrimination policies that protect various classes of persons beyond what the state of North Carolina requires for them on government projects. But local governments are precluded from requiring them to do so.

Part III: State Non-Discrimination Law In Employment And Public Accommodations Is A Matter Of Statewide Concern, And State Law Preempts Local Nondiscrimination Ordinances

Employment Law.

The relevant portion of HB2 concerning employment non-discrimination requirements for business in North Carolina states:

"The General Assembly declares that the regulation of discriminatory practices in employment is properly an issue of general, statewide concern, such that this Article and other applicable provisions of the General Statutes supersede and preempt any ordinance, regulation, resolution or policy adopted or imposed by a unit of local government…"

The purpose behind statewide uniformity in non-discrimination law is to make it easy for businesses operating in the state to comply with the law without having to learn and deal with competing provisions in various cities and counties within the state. A business with offices in Raleigh and Charlotte, for example, would need to learn and comply with only one set of rules, making the business climate more encouraging, thus helping to improve the North Carolina economy.

Private Business Employment Policies Are Unaffected.

Nothing in HB2 prevents a private business from creating its own internal policies of non-discrimination that includes any groups it wants, LGBT or otherwise. Most of the major corporations that have publicly complained about HB2 already have internal policies that cover LGBT issues, so HB2 would presumably not affect them.

Public Accommodations.

Public accommodations are private businesses open to the public and/or doing business with the public, as well as government-owned public facilities. HB2 once again, as it did in Parts I and II of the bill, creates a statewide law that preempts local ordinances:

"The General Assembly declares that the regulation of discriminatory practices in places of public accommodation is properly an issue of general, statewide concern, such that this Article and other applicable provisions of the General Statutes supersede and preempt any ordinance…adopted or imposed by a unit of local government…"

Private Business Practices Are Unaffected.

HB2 sets a baseline for non-discrimination. Private businesses can set any standard above HB2's baseline that they desire for their employees and customers.

The Bottom Line

North Carolina Law Has Not Changed.

Prior to HB2, North Carolina public bathrooms and changing facilities were always restricted to male or female based on biology, and state law protected against discrimination in employment and public accommodations and government contracting on the basis of "race, religion, color, national origin, age, sex or handicap…" This is in keeping with federal civil rights law. The state's non-discrimination law is the same now, after HB2, as it was before HB2, except that HB2 amends the word "sex" to mean "biological sex."

HB2 Does Not Target Anyone For Discrimination.

It does not mention sexual orientation or gender identity. It does not limit private businesses from establishing their own policies in these matters. It merely re-states previous state law in a few key areas, and by reserving such law-making to the state legislature, it preempts local governments from creating a patchwork of inconsistent laws across the state. Such uniformity across the state prevents local governments from infringing the religious conscience of its citizens, and improves the overall economic climate for business growth.



1) Here is the "poison pill" that prohibits cities from enacting LGBT protections if they want to (I thought the GOP was big on local governing?), and

2) It sure has "improved(s) the overall economic climate for business growth" with all of the corporations boycotting. Well done, NC Legislature!!!!
02-11-2017 12:39 PM
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