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How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #31
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-07-2017 04:04 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-07-2017 12:30 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  It can put teams in an awkward position, especially for the NCAA Tournament for Olympic sports where you can't really control where teams go.

Last year UC Santa Barbara baseball was sent to Vanderbilt for a regional. Let's say we were to meet them in a Super Regional. The travel ban prevents us from going to Nashville, and our facility is not suitable for hosting. What then?

You'd be playing somewhere else. So long as the numbers of states that are not acceptable is small, its easy enough for the NCAA to just keep California and NY teams out of those regionals.

Just like they do for BYU - move them from Regionals that would play on Sundays.
02-07-2017 04:26 PM
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HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Offline
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Post: #32
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
It shouldn't impact college sports but it will.
02-07-2017 08:07 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #33
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
Just saw this today - the California law is already having an impact:

Cal nixes Kansas series talks over LGBT law

I predict that within a couple of years, California schools will be unable to play at 1/4 of NCAA arenas.

It's a darn shame - I can't think of any worse way to deepen the divide in the USA than refusing to even be in the same state as those who disagree with you.
02-09-2017 11:26 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #34
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-09-2017 11:26 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Just saw this today - the California law is already having an impact:

Cal nixes Kansas series talks over LGBT law

I predict that within a couple of years, California schools will be unable to play at 1/4 of NCAA arenas.

It's a darn shame - I can't think of any worse way to deepen the divide in the USA than overbearing state legislatures continually pushing discriminatory laws in order to satisfy a hardcore base that refuses to live up to the fact that the rest of the world has passed them by.

FIFY

Fighting against discrimination isn't merely "disagreeing". If certain states want to kill their economic prospects because they want to cow-tow to a backwards subset of their respective populations, then that's their prerogative. North Carolina already figured that out the hard way.
02-09-2017 11:41 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #35
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-09-2017 11:26 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Just saw this today - the California law is already having an impact:

Cal nixes Kansas series talks over LGBT law

I predict that within a couple of years, California schools will be unable to play at 1/4 of NCAA arenas.

It's a darn shame - I can't think of any worse way to deepen the divide in the USA than refusing to even be in the same state as those who disagree with you.

Also, I think the bolded is going to end up being wrong. The other part of this with the wackiness of these state legislatures is that they belie the sharp overall trends of the public. There is probably no social issue since the push to end racial segregation that has gained more traction more quickly than support for LGBT rights. The pro-choice/pro-life and gun control/gun rights divide has remained virtually unchanged percentage-wise for the past 4 decades, but support for LGBT rights has SKYROCKETED in the past 10 years and it has been rising exponentially faster during the past 5 years in a sharp curve. This is very similar to how society changed in its views toward racial segregation - it was basically unchanged percentage-wise for decades until the early-1960s... and then the country swiftly turned to where what was "politically acceptable" about that issue completely changed. These anti-LGBT bills are the equivalent of George Wallace making his last stand in the late-1960s/early-1970s to attempt to turn back time. Within the next 5 to 10 years, politicians attempting to take these anti-LGBT stances truly won't be politically viable anymore even in the more socially conservative states. North Carolina already saw this pushback and they got hammered for it (and the state ended up voting the GOP governor out of office even when Trump wildly out-performed expectations at the top of the ticket there). We certainly won't see places like the State of Washington ever pass a bathroom bill.
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2017 12:24 PM by Frank the Tank.)
02-09-2017 12:20 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #36
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
Look this isn't the politics board but it's unfair to dismiss the legitimate debate in this country about when it is apropriate to differentiate between the social construct of gender identity and the physical construct of biological sex

Bathrooms are the perfect example of this.

Currently they are separated by biological sex (XX vs XY) which is only problematic for a small element of the population and frankly my position is if you're a different genotype like XYY, then it's your choice (no system meant for the masses can ever cater to everyone, only as many as possible)


However basing them on the artificial social construct of gender identity which is an intangible idea is at best highly problematic because it's totally subjective to the preferences of the individual and impossible to scale for mass use policy because it literally varies from one person to the next.

Just my 2 cents

Carry on
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2017 04:11 PM by 10thMountain.)
02-09-2017 04:08 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #37
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-09-2017 04:08 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Look this isn't the politics board but it's unfair to dismiss the legitimate debate in this country about when it is apropriate to differentiate between the social construct of gender identity and the physical construct of biological sex

Bathrooms are the perfect example of this.

Currently they are separated by biological sex (XX vs XY) which is only problematic for a small element of the population and frankly my position is if you're a different genotype like XYY, then it's your choice (no system meant for the masses can ever cater to everyone, only as many as possible)


However basing them on the artificial social construct of gender identity which is an intangible idea is at best highly problematic because it's totally subjective to the preferences of the individual and impossible to scale for mass use policy because it literally varies from one person to the next.

Just my 2 cents

Carry on

Frankly, I believe the "debate" on this is little more than a smoke screen. I don't believe the issue is really about gender identity. As you point out, only a small fraction of the population is affected by this, and these bills don't address any real concerns.

I think the issue is about power. A segment of our society that has long held power feels it is losing its grip on it. They are afraid, and are taking this opportunity to exercise what power they still have while they can. They are proposing, and in some cases, passing these bills because they can, not because they need to.

I suspect Frank the Tank is right in seeing this as sort of a desperate last stand against the inexorable tide of public opinion. That might sound silly in light of the recent presidential election results. But I think history will view this election as an anomaly. When we are afraid, and as a nation I believe we are, we tend to over-correct. I expect the pendulum to swing back - perhaps not as far as some would like - bringing us closer to the center, and more in line with public opinion. That's a painful process, but probably a useful one.
02-09-2017 05:01 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #38
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-09-2017 05:01 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-09-2017 04:08 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Look this isn't the politics board but it's unfair to dismiss the legitimate debate in this country about when it is apropriate to differentiate between the social construct of gender identity and the physical construct of biological sex

Bathrooms are the perfect example of this.

Currently they are separated by biological sex (XX vs XY) which is only problematic for a small element of the population and frankly my position is if you're a different genotype like XYY, then it's your choice (no system meant for the masses can ever cater to everyone, only as many as possible)


However basing them on the artificial social construct of gender identity which is an intangible idea is at best highly problematic because it's totally subjective to the preferences of the individual and impossible to scale for mass use policy because it literally varies from one person to the next.

Just my 2 cents

Carry on

Frankly, I believe the "debate" on this is little more than a smoke screen. I don't believe the issue is really about gender identity. As you point out, only a small fraction of the population is affected by this, and these bills don't address any real concerns.

I think the issue is about power. A segment of our society that has long held power feels it is losing its grip on it. They are afraid, and are taking this opportunity to exercise what power they still have while they can. They are proposing, and in some cases, passing these bills because they can, not because they need to.

I suspect Frank the Tank is right in seeing this as sort of a desperate last stand against the inexorable tide of public opinion. That might sound silly in light of the recent presidential election results. But I think history will view this election as an anomaly. When we are afraid, and as a nation I believe we are, we tend to over-correct. I expect the pendulum to swing back - perhaps not as far as some would like - bringing us closer to the center, and more in line with public opinion. That's a painful process, but probably a useful one.

Ken, I believe that you are correct on all of your post.

Also, the North Carolina bill was not merely a "bathroom bill", but a law intended to strip the cities from protecting LGBT rights.

As an aside, I see a Judge today put a hold on one of the outgoing governor/legislature's "last gasp" laws intended to limit the incoming NC governor's power.

These guys are on the wrong side of history and have made their own bed as far as sanctions go.

When corporations recoil from what a GOP legislature does, then man, that is a good sign that it just went Beyond The Pale.
02-09-2017 05:27 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #39
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-09-2017 05:01 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-09-2017 04:08 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Look this isn't the politics board but it's unfair to dismiss the legitimate debate in this country about when it is apropriate to differentiate between the social construct of gender identity and the physical construct of biological sex

Bathrooms are the perfect example of this.

Currently they are separated by biological sex (XX vs XY) which is only problematic for a small element of the population and frankly my position is if you're a different genotype like XYY, then it's your choice (no system meant for the masses can ever cater to everyone, only as many as possible)


However basing them on the artificial social construct of gender identity which is an intangible idea is at best highly problematic because it's totally subjective to the preferences of the individual and impossible to scale for mass use policy because it literally varies from one person to the next.

Just my 2 cents

Carry on

Frankly, I believe the "debate" on this is little more than a smoke screen. I don't believe the issue is really about gender identity. As you point out, only a small fraction of the population is affected by this, and these bills don't address any real concerns.

I think the issue is about power. A segment of our society that has long held power feels it is losing its grip on it. They are afraid, and are taking this opportunity to exercise what power they still have while they can. They are proposing, and in some cases, passing these bills because they can, not because they need to.

I suspect Frank the Tank is right in seeing this as sort of a desperate last stand against the inexorable tide of public opinion. That might sound silly in light of the recent presidential election results. But I think history will view this election as an anomaly. When we are afraid, and as a nation I believe we are, we tend to over-correct. I expect the pendulum to swing back - perhaps not as far as some would like - bringing us closer to the center, and more in line with public opinion. That's a painful process, but probably a useful one.

Agreed.

My other issue is that any reasonable person knows the intent of these laws. It has nothing to do with bathroom safety, biological differences or "religious freedom". If these same people really cared about "religious freedom", we'd be seeing bakers refuse to bake wedding cakes for heterosexual divorced people that are having second marriages (considering that Jesus himself gave his famous Sermon on the Mount where he DIRECTLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY stated that divorce is a mortal sin and remarriage is literally the same as adultery). So, is it about religious freedom... or is it just that they think gay people are icky? I'm sorry - feeling icky doesn't give anyone the right to discriminate.

Regardless, if these states want to exercise "states' rights", then that's their prerogative. However, those states then can't turn around and whine when businesses, millennials and educated people take their dollars and economic growth prospects elsewhere. Those states can't complain about coastal elites and supposed legislation from the bench regarding LGBT rights on the one hand and then complain when the free market loudly proclaims that they don't want anything to do with LGBT discrimination on the other hand. TerryD is right - when big business (normally in the pocket of the GOP) is pulling out of these states, that shows you where this country has gone because those certainly aren't big government liberals.

My apologies for veering into politics (albeit the OP subject is inherently intertwined with politics, so it's difficult to separate the two).
02-09-2017 05:55 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #40
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
One thing that the 'just play sports' folks would do well to keep in mind. Not make this political, but just so that people can understand that there's a dynamic here.

Non-sports fans tend to be more liberal than sports fans yet liberals end up subsidizing sports to a greater extent than conservatives. College students at NCAA institutions, who tend to be much more liberal, sponsor NCAA athletics to a significant degree with student activity fees. Remember that for liberal alumni, they give, but there is competition for their donor dollars. I'll give you just one example. The Harry Ransom Center at the University of Texas, which is a book collection, actually managed to outraise the Athletic Department in at least one year. What happens if those alumni get p*ssed off and simply stop donating to UT period?

Pro sports tends to be concentrated in more liberal municipalities, and those are the people who largely finance professional sports through stadium bonds, and local cable bills.

Sports in general, and especially the alpha male sports, tends to be watched and supported by a more conservative population, but tends to be financed by a more liberal population that might not support that sport. People are starting to say "f this, I want cable without paying 400 a year for NHL/NFL/NCAA programming I don't want'. And 'F this, I don't need my taxdollars to go to buy a billionaire a stadium or an arena'. The pros have done a terrible job of engaging liberals. The NFL has been horrible. An accounting is coming.

One reason why the NCAA is moving on this is perhaps that they want to align their expensive athletic programs with the communities that largely subsidize them.
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2017 06:52 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
02-09-2017 06:52 PM
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