If I could be a college commissioner czar and make a few changes to the Summit and Horizon, I would do this:

Switch IUPUI and IPFW for Green Bay, Milwaukee, and UIC. And find a new home for Oral Roberts.

Denver
Illinois-Chicago
North Dakota
North Dakota State
Omaha
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Western Illinois
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Not going to happen. But that would be a very solid league.

(01-31-2017 09:00 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  If I could be a college commissioner czar and make a few changes to the Summit and Horizon, I would do this:

Switch IUPUI and IPFW for Green Bay, Milwaukee, and UIC. And find a new home for Oral Roberts.

Denver
Illinois-Chicago
North Dakota
North Dakota State
Omaha
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Western Illinois
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Not going to happen. But that would be a very solid league.

I'd like to see Wichita St, Missouri St, and Northern Iowa to the Summit in exchange for WIU, IUPUI, and IPFW.

I don't see it ever happening but one can dream.

I feel like the Indiana Summit schools are just sitting and waiting for the Horizon to call them and seem content with letting the Dakota schools run the league.

(01-31-2017 08:34 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(01-30-2017 03:35 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  You wonder if Texas did matter to the Summit, whether it could dangle MVFC membership to one of the Southland schools, like SHSU or SFA. The problem with the Southland is...shoestring budgets for the AD.

Didn't realize Sam Houston St has now grown to more than 20k. Lamar has 15k and SFA is under 13k, so SHSU seems to be widening the lead.

Those three, and I think West Texas A&M all are shooting for FBS. With the Texas going get oil money again flowing, I could see several Texas schools making a jump to FBS and to FCS. Texas is overloaded with talent.

You guys seem to be arguing for splitting the SLC into two conferences of 8 with a couple move ups.

This discussion has nothing to do with the WAC

(02-01-2017 01:50 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You guys seem to be arguing for splitting the SLC into two conferences of 8 with a couple move ups.

This discussion has nothing to do withe the WAC

(01-31-2017 09:00 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  If I could be a college commissioner czar and make a few changes to the Summit and Horizon, I would do this:

Switch IUPUI and IPFW for Green Bay, Milwaukee, and UIC. And find a new home for Oral Roberts.

Denver
Illinois-Chicago
North Dakota
North Dakota State
Omaha
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Western Illinois
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Not going to happen. But that would be a very solid league.

That would be a great league.

Maybe even the Summit takes over the MVFC when Missouri St leaves, then having a majority of teams.

(02-01-2017 01:50 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You guys seem to be arguing for splitting the SLC into two conferences of 8 with a couple move ups.

This discussion has nothing to do withe the WAC

Well, West Texas A&M is in the WAC's footprints. It would reunite New Mexico State with them.

(02-01-2017 01:50 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You guys seem to be arguing for splitting the SLC into two conferences of 8 with a couple move ups.

This discussion has nothing to do with the WAC

It's the tangential talk from Summit's upstaging (and bigger) news with UND from Big Sky. Whatever WAC had/has...Summit had a better hand.

The same could be said for the "trade" of Denver for UMKC.

You could conceivably turn 3 conferences into five at the FCS level:

Big Sky - EWU, PSU, Idaho, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State, Weber State, Sacramento State (non-football: Seattle, Utah Valley)
WAC - NAU, SUU, ACU, UIW, HBU, UTRGV (football only: Cal Poly, UC Davis; non-FCS: NMSU, CSUB, CBU, GCU)
Southland - Nicholls State, Northwestern State, McNeese State, SELA, UCA, Lamar, SHSU, SFA (non-football: New Orleans, TAMUCC)
Summit: Northern Colorado, UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, WIU (non-football: Denver, ORU, Omaha, IUPUI, IPFW, UMKC)
MVC: WSU, Missouri State, UNI, Illinois State, SIU, Indiana State (non/non-scholarship football members: Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Loyola; football only: Youngstown State)

(01-31-2017 09:00 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  If I could be a college commissioner czar and make a few changes to the Summit and Horizon, I would do this:

Switch IUPUI and IPFW for Green Bay, Milwaukee, and UIC. And find a new home for Oral Roberts.

Denver
Illinois-Chicago
North Dakota
North Dakota State
Omaha
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Western Illinois
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Not going to happen. But that would be a very solid league.

Ever think that those schools are the reason the Horizon is better than the Summit? Why would they downgrade? The Horizon, along with the MVC off and on and the MAC in the 90's-early 2000's, has long been the premiere mid-major league entirely in the Midwest.

(02-01-2017 11:01 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  You could conceivably turn 3 conferences into five at the FCS level:

Big Sky - EWU, PSU, Idaho, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State, Weber State, Sacramento State (non-football: Seattle, Utah Valley)
WAC - NAU, SUU, ACU, UIW, HBU, UTRGV (football only: Cal Poly, UC Davis; non-FCS: NMSU, CSUB, CBU, GCU)
Southland - Nicholls State, Northwestern State, McNeese State, SELA, UCA, Lamar, SHSU, SFA (non-football: New Orleans, TAMUCC)
Summit: Northern Colorado, UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, WIU (non-football: Denver, ORU, Omaha, IUPUI, IPFW, UMKC)
MVC: WSU, Missouri State, UNI, Illinois State, SIU, Indiana State (non/non-scholarship football members: Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Loyola; football only: Youngstown State)

That could slide some D2 schools in some of these slots as well. I could see that the Big Sky would reject Seattle and Utah Valley and go with Central Washington and maybe grab Simon Fraser, Western Oregon and Colorado Mesa. Colorado Mesa is near Idaho State which could work.

Seattle and Utah Valley could restart Great West and grab California Baptist, GCU and California Baptist. And maybe NEW Mexico State? They could grab Azusa Pacific, Humboldt State and Dixie State while those three could be football only for the WAC, and WAC could grab Angelo State, West Texas A&M and Colorado State-Pueblo. Maybe New Mexico State will stay for that? Than Southland could grab teams that they wanted in Central Oklahoma, Arkansas Tech, Delta State, Tarleton State, Commerce and Kingsville and maybe Midwestern State. That would mean the three New Mexico schools and UTPB would join RMAC for football only.

(02-02-2017 02:26 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(01-31-2017 09:00 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  If I could be a college commissioner czar and make a few changes to the Summit and Horizon, I would do this:

Switch IUPUI and IPFW for Green Bay, Milwaukee, and UIC. And find a new home for Oral Roberts.

Denver
Illinois-Chicago
North Dakota
North Dakota State
Omaha
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Western Illinois
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Wisconsin-Milwaukee

Not going to happen. But that would be a very solid league.

Ever think that those schools are the reason the Horizon is better than the Summit? Why would they downgrade? The Horizon, along with the MVC off and on and the MAC in the 90's-early 2000's, has long been the premiere mid-major league entirely in the Midwest.

Those 3 schools are not the reason the Horizon was better than the Summit. Summit and Horizon are basically a wash anymore with the rise of the Dakotas schools.

And without Wichita St and Missouri St ...

(02-02-2017 10:25 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  And without Wichita St and Missouri St ...

It would still be a league better than Horizon and Summit. The other 8 MVC members are still strong members with basketball and other sport traditions. Bradley is a sleeping giant in basketball. SIU was the powerhouse program before Wichita's rise. Illinois State is always right there with Wichita State and Missouri State in the all sports rankings.

(02-02-2017 01:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(02-02-2017 10:25 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  And without Wichita St and Missouri St ...

It would still be a league better than Horizon and Summit. The other 8 MVC members are still strong members with basketball and other sport traditions. Bradley is a sleeping giant in basketball. SIU was the powerhouse program before Wichita's rise. Illinois State is always right there with Wichita State and Missouri State in the all sports rankings.

Granted, Ind St with Larry Bird, and Bradley with Hersey Hawkins (and even SIU with Walt Frazier) have tremendous histories, but the schools haven't done anything lately. Never mind Drake, Evansville, and Loyola. I guess UND is a sleeping bball giant too as it had a triad of future great NBA coaches at the same time when Phil Jackson played.

Bradley puts 7k to 8k a night to watch a horrible team and they can pay a coach as well. They can pay 750k + for a coach if needed. Bradley won't be down long.

(02-02-2017 01:26 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Bradley puts 7k to 8k a night to watch a horrible team and they can pay a coach as well. They can pay 750k + for a coach if needed. Bradley won't be down long.

They have already been down long. I understand they can pay a coach but what have they done in the past decade? Same with SIU, Drake and Indiana State. What have they done in the past decade?

(02-02-2017 01:26 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Bradley puts 7k to 8k a night to watch a horrible team and they can pay a coach as well. They can pay 750k + for a coach if needed. Bradley won't be down long.

Peoria is just in a basketball mad area, which stretches from the Ohio Valley to Omaha and down to Wichita that loves college basketball. It's a social event there, about being seen, not about winning

(02-02-2017 01:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  It would still be a league better than Horizon and Summit. The other 8 MVC members are still strong members with basketball and other sport traditions. Bradley is a sleeping giant in basketball. SIU was the powerhouse program before Wichita's rise. Illinois State is always right there with Wichita State and Missouri State in the all sports rankings.

I very much doubt you're going to spend lots of time defending MVC prowess in (women's) volleyball, women's soccer, and softball, over the Summit and Horizon.

We're talking men's basketball.

(02-02-2017 01:26 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Bradley puts 7k to 8k a night to watch a horrible team and they can pay a coach as well. They can pay 750k + for a coach if needed. Bradley won't be down long.

I know those dimensions are certainly what set the MVC teams apart from the Horizon, and then even more from the Summit: attendance and money.

And those metrics are why NDSU and SDSU are not good fits for the MVC, and when combined with lack of market and distance from current teams, have no chance of getting an MVC invitation.


But again, that's not really the context of the discussion ...

The context is: top four MVC men's bball teams (sans Wichita and Missouri St) vs the top four Horizon vs the top four Summit ..... on the court. What would be the results of home-home head to head matchups between the leagues? Pretty darn even, I'm thinking.