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[split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #21
RE: [split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
(02-02-2017 04:07 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 01:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  It would still be a league better than Horizon and Summit. The other 8 MVC members are still strong members with basketball and other sport traditions. Bradley is a sleeping giant in basketball. SIU was the powerhouse program before Wichita's rise. Illinois State is always right there with Wichita State and Missouri State in the all sports rankings.

I very much doubt you're going to spend lots of time defending MVC prowess in (women's) volleyball, women's soccer, and softball, over the Summit and Horizon.

We're talking men's basketball.


(02-02-2017 01:26 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Bradley puts 7k to 8k a night to watch a horrible team and they can pay a coach as well. They can pay 750k + for a coach if needed. Bradley won't be down long.

I know those dimensions are certainly what set the MVC teams apart from the Horizon, and then even more from the Summit: attendance and money.

And those metrics are why NDSU and SDSU are not good fits for the MVC, and when combined with lack of market and distance from current teams, have no chance of getting an MVC invitation.


But again, that's not really the context of the discussion ...

The context is: top four MVC men's bball teams (sans Wichita and Missouri St) vs the top four Horizon vs the top four Summit ..... on the court. What would be the results of home-home head to head matchups between the leagues? Pretty darn even, I'm thinking.

This year league to league without Wichita State & Missouri State.

MVC vs Horizon
3-2

MVC vs Summit League
4-2

MVC vs Horizon (WSU & MSU added)
3-3

MVC vs Summit (WSU & MSU added)
7-2
02-02-2017 05:05 PM
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Post: #22
RE: [split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
(02-02-2017 09:40 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Those 3 schools are not the reason the Horizon was better than the Summit. Summit and Horizon are basically a wash anymore with the rise of the Dakotas schools.

Previously, it was Butler and Xavier that was the main reason the MCC was better than the Mid-Con. The Horizon has declined and the Summit has gotten better but the Horizon is still better.
02-02-2017 05:15 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #23
RE: [split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
(02-02-2017 05:05 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  This year league to league without Wichita State & Missouri State.

MVC vs Horizon
3-2

MVC vs Summit League
4-2

I said home-home.

Most of the above games are likely MVC home games, due to MVC programs having more money.


(02-02-2017 05:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Horizon has declined and the Summit has gotten better but the Horizon is still better.

They have marginally more attendance and money (coaching pay), but not better on the court. Both are one-bid leagues.

The MVC will be pretty much the same, just even more attendance and money, once Wichita and Missouri St leave.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2017 05:20 PM by MplsBison.)
02-02-2017 05:20 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #24
RE: [split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
(02-02-2017 05:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 05:05 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  This year league to league without Wichita State & Missouri State.

MVC vs Horizon
3-2

MVC vs Summit League
4-2

I said home-home.

Most of the above games are likely MVC home games, due to MVC programs having more money.


(02-02-2017 05:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Horizon has declined and the Summit has gotten better but the Horizon is still better.

They have marginally more attendance and money (coaching pay), but not better on the court. Both are one-bid leagues.

The MVC will be pretty much the same, just even more attendance and money, once Wichita and Missouri St leave.

Where are they going, and when?


And why should any fans be subjected to a trip to Wichita?
02-02-2017 05:30 PM
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Post: #25
RE: [split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
Some schools in the Summit are new to D-I and barely D-I. That said, the gap has shrunk because the Horizon had to backfill after losses to the Big East and Valley.
02-02-2017 05:33 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #26
RE: [split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
(02-02-2017 05:30 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Where are they going, and when?

Wichita to the AAC is a rumor, that may never come to pass. Or it might happen.

If it happens, I think that will be the final straw for MSU and it will be willing to take the (at that point) minor risk the move to the Sun Belt hurting men's bball for the sake of upgrading football to FBS.


(02-02-2017 05:33 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Some schools in the Summit are new to D-I and barely D-I.

Depends on your definitions of new and barely, I guess.
02-02-2017 05:41 PM
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Post: #27
RE: [split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
(02-02-2017 05:41 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 05:30 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Where are they going, and when?

Wichita to the AAC is a rumor, that may never come to pass. Or it might happen.

If it happens, I think that will be the final straw for MSU and it will be willing to take the (at that point) minor risk the move to the Sun Belt hurting men's bball for the sake of upgrading football to FBS.


(02-02-2017 05:33 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Some schools in the Summit are new to D-I and barely D-I.

Depends on your definitions of new and barely, I guess.

Since Creighton left the only difference in Valley and the Sun Belt has been Wichita State and right now the two leagues sit at #12 and #13, this year looks like the difference will be Illinois State rather than Wichita State
02-03-2017 08:10 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #28
RE: [split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
If WSU and MSU leave the MVC, it's down to 8 eight teams and a 4/4 even mix of public private.

Valpo is an obvious add for them. Tops in the Horizon right now, private, smack dab in the footprint. That would give: Valpo/Loyola Chicago, UNI/Drake, Ill St/Bradley, Ind St/Evansville, SIU/???


So who else to add as the 10th? Should be a public, to keep the balance at 5/5. Could look at Wisc-Milwaukee. Green Bay I think is a lower candidate than Milwaukee, and they're already in Chicago so not UIC. The other Horizon publics are farther east.

WIU is there in the Summit, as are the IP schools ... but I think those are too low of candidates for the MVC. Dakotas are too far away.

Maybe the Ohio Valley has the best candidates, after all? You have EIU, SEMO, SIUE, UT Martin, and Murray St, all fairly close to SIU. Though probably EIU, SEMO, SIUE, and UTM are lower candidates, about like WIU?



Murray St would also be #12 in the MVFC. So perhaps Murray is already being loaded into the hopper for the MVC, if the Wichita to AAC rumor proves to be true.
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2017 10:18 AM by MplsBison.)
02-03-2017 10:14 AM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: [split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
(02-02-2017 05:33 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Some schools in the Summit are new to D-I and barely D-I. That said, the gap has shrunk because the Horizon had to backfill after losses to the Big East and Valley.

Which schools are barely D1? The newest are USD and Omaha, both seem to be doing ok.
02-03-2017 11:04 AM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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RE: [split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
(02-03-2017 10:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  If WSU and MSU leave the MVC, it's down to 8 eight teams and a 4/4 even mix of public private.

Valpo is an obvious add for them. Tops in the Horizon right now, private, smack dab in the footprint. That would give: Valpo/Loyola Chicago, UNI/Drake, Ill St/Bradley, Ind St/Evansville, SIU/???


So who else to add as the 10th? Should be a public, to keep the balance at 5/5. Could look at Wisc-Milwaukee. Green Bay I think is a lower candidate than Milwaukee, and they're already in Chicago so not UIC. The other Horizon publics are farther east.

WIU is there in the Summit, as are the IP schools ... but I think those are too low of candidates for the MVC. Dakotas are too far away.

Maybe the Ohio Valley has the best candidates, after all? You have EIU, SEMO, SIUE, UT Martin, and Murray St, all fairly close to SIU. Though probably EIU, SEMO, SIUE, and UTM are lower candidates, about like WIU?



Murray St would also be #12 in the MVFC. So perhaps Murray is already being loaded into the hopper for the MVC, if the Wichita to AAC rumor proves to be true.

There has always been the rumor that the MVC would look at UMKC to back fill for WSU or MSU (if either left) based on location and it being a public institution.
02-03-2017 11:06 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #31
RE: [split thread] Summit and other non-FBS conferences
I suppose if the MVC adds only non-fb schools, then that leaves MVFC #12 open for another football school to be added to the Summit.

I've always liked the idea of EIU joining WIU, for an all-sports rivalry, along with football rivalries in IL and Ind St. But it usually gets shot down by other posters.
02-03-2017 11:09 AM
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