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falconplucker Offline
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Toledo and Recruiting
Toledo has bigger issues than if Warren decides to go elsewhere. The clock keeps on ticking since the last time Toledo has won the division or conference. It still cannot play defense or win a big game, when it counts. Fickell and Row the Boat are new head coaches, who are coming into the recruiting game late. They are going after the low hanging fruit, and it is very likely Warren is one of those recruits. Whether he stays with Toledo or not, is no matter. Toledo is not the jewel of the MAC. Candle needs to make so. Warren will not make or break this program. I've read where people would rather have the most recent record, than Fleck and a Cotton Bowl berth? Given how many people on this board have ranted about being "so close to a special season" in the past, I find it hard to believe that they would actually feel that way if Toledo had been in the Cotton Bowl. I have not seem the personality spark that Candle needs to be a great recruiter. Hopefully he can prove me wrong and then coach this program out of mediocrity.
01-29-2017 09:31 AM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
(01-29-2017 09:31 AM)falconplucker Wrote:  Toledo has bigger issues than if Warren decides to go elsewhere. The clock keeps on ticking since the last time Toledo has won the division or conference. It still cannot play defense or win a big game, when it counts. Fickell and Row the Boat are new head coaches, who are coming into the recruiting game late. They are going after the low hanging fruit, and it is very likely Warren is one of those recruits. Whether he stays with Toledo or not, is no matter. Toledo is not the jewel of the MAC. Candle needs to make so. Warren will not make or break this program. I've read where people would rather have the most recent record, than Fleck and a Cotton Bowl berth? Given how many people on this board have ranted about being "so close to a special season" in the past, I find it hard to believe that they would actually feel that way if Toledo had been in the Cotton Bowl. I have not seem the personality spark that Candle needs to be a great recruiter. Hopefully he can prove me wrong and then coach this program out of mediocrity.

9 or 10 wins a season is not mediocrity. It took Boise State 8 or 9 years of being a good FB program before they got to that magical undefeated season with a win over Oklahoma in the 2006 Fiesta Bowl. Obviously,
the big difference between the 2015 and 2016 for the Rockets was the Defense, graduating 4 ALL MAC Defensive players and then losing 3 front 7 starters to injuries certainly hurt UT. This is Candle's first real recruiting Class as a HC, it is loaded on the Defensive side of the FB.
Toledo will probably end up will the MAC's Top Class with or without CC's Warren.
01-29-2017 10:08 AM
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RocketJeff Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
(01-29-2017 09:31 AM)falconplucker Wrote:  I've read where people would rather have the most recent record, than Fleck and a Cotton Bowl berth? Given how many people on this board have ranted about being "so close to a special season" in the past, I find it hard to believe that they would actually feel that way if Toledo had been in the Cotton Bowl.

In the previous 5 seasons, WMU went 8-5, 8-5, 1-11, 4-8, and 7-6 with 3 bowl losses. We went 10-2, 9-4, 7-5, 9-4, 9-4 and 4-1 in bowl games. I can see how some wouldn't want to trade. Would you trade our 35-0 for a MACC or two? I wouldn't but I could believe some would.
01-29-2017 11:12 AM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
(01-29-2017 11:12 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  
(01-29-2017 09:31 AM)falconplucker Wrote:  I've read where people would rather have the most recent record, than Fleck and a Cotton Bowl berth? Given how many people on this board have ranted about being "so close to a special season" in the past, I find it hard to believe that they would actually feel that way if Toledo had been in the Cotton Bowl.

In the previous 5 seasons, WMU went 8-5, 8-5, 1-11, 4-8, and 7-6 with 3 bowl losses. We went 10-2, 9-4, 7-5, 9-4, 9-4 and 4-1 in bowl games. I can see how some wouldn't want to trade. Would you trade our 35-0 for a MACC or two? I wouldn't but I could believe some would.

Since I was there for the 35-0, 3 MAC Titles, 3 Bowl Wins(When Bowls were limited) , #12 and #14 rankings in the Final AP Poll, A consensus 1st Team All American, and the #8 player in Heisman voting, 3 wins over BGSUX, No way!
01-29-2017 11:36 AM
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utrocks84 Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
(01-29-2017 11:36 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(01-29-2017 11:12 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  
(01-29-2017 09:31 AM)falconplucker Wrote:  I've read where people would rather have the most recent record, than Fleck and a Cotton Bowl berth? Given how many people on this board have ranted about being "so close to a special season" in the past, I find it hard to believe that they would actually feel that way if Toledo had been in the Cotton Bowl.

In the previous 5 seasons, WMU went 8-5, 8-5, 1-11, 4-8, and 7-6 with 3 bowl losses. We went 10-2, 9-4, 7-5, 9-4, 9-4 and 4-1 in bowl games. I can see how some wouldn't want to trade. Would you trade our 35-0 for a MACC or two? I wouldn't but I could believe some would.

Since I was there for the 35-0, 3 MAC Titles, 3 Bowl Wins(When Bowls were limited) , #12 and #14 rankings in the Final AP Poll, A consensus 1st Team All American, and the #8 player in Heisman voting, 3 wins over BGSUX, No way!

HELL NO!
01-29-2017 11:57 AM
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rockytop Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
I wish Warren well. Offensive and defensive linemen and linebackers will win, MACC's, not RB's. UT has always had good running backs.
01-29-2017 11:57 AM
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Toledo Football 1st Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
The last couple coaches haven't stayed here long enough to get us where we want to be. I think one thing would be to make the buyout cost much higher. Why do we want to make it easy on the Big Money conferernces to take our coaches? They are loaded with millions to give our coaches, why not make them part with more of that to take them? That money doesn't come out of the coach's pocket. If a candidate doesn't like the buyout cost in the agreement, fine, go somewhere else. Obviously, he doesn't want to stay here long enough to accomplish something of significance. Time to stop being easy.
01-29-2017 12:11 PM
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bcunn3128 Away
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
(01-29-2017 12:11 PM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  The last couple coaches haven't stayed here long enough to get us where we want to be. I think one thing would be to make the buyout cost much higher. Why do we want to make it easy on the Big Money conferernces to take our coaches? They are loaded with millions to give our coaches, why not make them part with more of that to take them? That money doesn't come out of the coach's pocket. If a candidate doesn't like the buyout cost in the agreement, fine, go somewhere else. Obviously, he doesn't want to stay here long enough to accomplish something of significance. Time to stop being easy.

I like your thinking. If you get a good coach, you need to keep him longer than 3-4 seasons to become the next Boise State.
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2017 12:16 PM by bcunn3128.)
01-29-2017 12:16 PM
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DetroitRocket Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
(01-29-2017 10:08 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(01-29-2017 09:31 AM)falconplucker Wrote:  Toledo has bigger issues than if Warren decides to go elsewhere. The clock keeps on ticking since the last time Toledo has won the division or conference. It still cannot play defense or win a big game, when it counts. Fickell and Row the Boat are new head coaches, who are coming into the recruiting game late. They are going after the low hanging fruit, and it is very likely Warren is one of those recruits. Whether he stays with Toledo or not, is no matter. Toledo is not the jewel of the MAC. Candle needs to make so. Warren will not make or break this program. I've read where people would rather have the most recent record, than Fleck and a Cotton Bowl berth? Given how many people on this board have ranted about being "so close to a special season" in the past, I find it hard to believe that they would actually feel that way if Toledo had been in the Cotton Bowl. I have not seem the personality spark that Candle needs to be a great recruiter. Hopefully he can prove me wrong and then coach this program out of mediocrity.

9 or 10 wins a season is not mediocrity. It took Boise State 8 or 9 years of being a good FB program before they got to that magical undefeated season with a win over Oklahoma in the 2006 Fiesta Bowl. Obviously,
the big difference between the 2015 and 2016 for the Rockets was the Defense, graduating 4 ALL MAC Defensive players and then losing 3 front 7 starters to injuries certainly hurt UT. This is Candle's first real recruiting Class as a HC, it is loaded on the Defensive side of the FB.
Toledo will probably end up will the MAC's Top Class with or without CC's Warren.

We lost our DC, that hurt the most. Very disappointed that Candle didn't fire some defensive coaches that couldn't coach.
01-29-2017 12:16 PM
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falconplucker Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
(01-29-2017 11:36 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(01-29-2017 11:12 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  
(01-29-2017 09:31 AM)falconplucker Wrote:  I've read where people would rather have the most recent record, than Fleck and a Cotton Bowl berth? Given how many people on this board have ranted about being "so close to a special season" in the past, I find it hard to believe that they would actually feel that way if Toledo had been in the Cotton Bowl.

In the previous 5 seasons, WMU went 8-5, 8-5, 1-11, 4-8, and 7-6 with 3 bowl losses. We went 10-2, 9-4, 7-5, 9-4, 9-4 and 4-1 in bowl games. I can see how some wouldn't want to trade. Would you trade our 35-0 for a MACC or two? I wouldn't but I could believe some would.

Since I was there for the 35-0, 3 MAC Titles, 3 Bowl Wins(When Bowls were limited) , #12 and #14 rankings in the Final AP Poll, A consensus 1st Team All American, and the #8 player in Heisman voting, 3 wins over BGSUX, No way!

I'm not talking about that. There were 3 MAC titles won during that era. During the Beckman/Campbell/Candle era there have been 0.
01-29-2017 12:26 PM
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Toledo Football 1st Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
(01-29-2017 12:16 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  
(01-29-2017 12:11 PM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  The last couple coaches haven't stayed here long enough to get us where we want to be. I think one thing would be to make the buyout cost much higher. Why do we want to make it easy on the Big Money conferernces to take our coaches? They are loaded with millions to give our coaches, why not make them part with more of that to take them? That money doesn't come out of the coach's pocket. If a candidate doesn't like the buyout cost in the agreement, fine, go somewhere else. Obviously, he doesn't want to stay here long enough to accomplish something of significance. Time to stop being easy.

I like your thinking. If you get a good coach, you need to keep him longer than 3-4 seasons to become the next Boise State.

And if he jumps ship for the big bucks at least a big buyout provides some extra cash to help attract our next coach.
01-29-2017 12:49 PM
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RocketJeff Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
(01-29-2017 12:26 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  
(01-29-2017 11:36 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(01-29-2017 11:12 AM)RocketJeff Wrote:  
(01-29-2017 09:31 AM)falconplucker Wrote:  I've read where people would rather have the most recent record, than Fleck and a Cotton Bowl berth? Given how many people on this board have ranted about being "so close to a special season" in the past, I find it hard to believe that they would actually feel that way if Toledo had been in the Cotton Bowl.

In the previous 5 seasons, WMU went 8-5, 8-5, 1-11, 4-8, and 7-6 with 3 bowl losses. We went 10-2, 9-4, 7-5, 9-4, 9-4 and 4-1 in bowl games. I can see how some wouldn't want to trade. Would you trade our 35-0 for a MACC or two? I wouldn't but I could believe some would.

Since I was there for the 35-0, 3 MAC Titles, 3 Bowl Wins(When Bowls were limited) , #12 and #14 rankings in the Final AP Poll, A consensus 1st Team All American, and the #8 player in Heisman voting, 3 wins over BGSUX, No way!

I'm not talking about that. There were 3 MAC titles won during that era. During the Beckman/Campbell/Candle era there have been 0.

And I wasn't talking about 3 MACC's either. I'm talking about a 17-1 followed by another 17-1.
01-29-2017 01:12 PM
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pono Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
the word i've heard is Candle is a very charismatic recruiter and potentially better than Campbell or Beckman. Not sure how well he manages a program and staff, but getting in talent that is capable of winning the MAC won't be the issue
01-29-2017 08:18 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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RE: Toledo and Recruiting
(01-29-2017 08:18 PM)pono Wrote:  the word i've heard is Candle is a very charismatic recruiter and potentially better than Campbell or Beckman. Not sure how well he manages a program and staff, but getting in talent that is capable of winning the MAC won't be the issue

That's what I heard.
01-29-2017 09:39 PM
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