The book is obviously still out on how much Pastner learned from his mistakes at Memphis. He had some great wins here as well that led to his big contract. But his downfall wasn't just a lack of strategical coaching ability, it was also his inability to actually put together a good long-term coaching staff and program. Eight years in and this program was in complete shambles and the simple fact that Tubby Smith has kept us competitive is a little bit of a miracle considering what he was left with.

Pastner was left with a top 15 program and some very good core players in addition to Elliott Williams coming on board. He was then able to parlay Cal's success and his newness into some top recruiting classes. Those top recruiting classes, though they underperformed, kept him viable. But then the out flux of transfers, The inability to keep a good coaching staff together, horrible out of conference schedules and his constant antagonizing of the Fanbase led to his downfall.

He has had some good wins at Georgia Tech so far. You have to give him credit for that there is no doubt. The first one against North Carolina possibly a little bit of a fluke. Florida State played about as horrible as a team can possibly play against them. The game yesterday was his best performance by far.

He has three gamers on that team and they're very clutch. I will not ultimately judge him on his performance today or Tubby Smith on his performance in Memphis until we are three or four years into this and we see these coaches with their own recruits, through possibly a second cycle of assistant coaches and both Fanbases are restored. Then you can see or be the ultimate judge of which school came out better.

Lost in all of this is the performance of Texas Tech. Of the three schools, the ripple effect of the coaching moves seems to have really helped Texas Tech the most of the three. They got a really great coach. One that Memphis should have probably looked at a whole lot closer.

I will close with this observation that I have made also. I got my first lead management position in business when I was only 24 years old. I was a hard worker, I had empathy for people, and I knew my job very well. However I lacked leadership ability and I was a complete disaster as no one that worked for me had any respect for me at all and I had no idea how to earn their respect. I ultimately quit that job because I was miserable. My very next management position that I received I immediately had more respect. I had learned from my mistakes and I was coming in as an existing manager already. Just having prior management experience made everyone respect and appreciate me that much more.

Why do I say all of this? I have noticed that so far at Georgia Tech the players and the Fanbase respect and appreciate Josh Pastner a whole lot more than we did. They are viewing him as an experienced coach with success already. They are not judging him through the lense underperforming recruiting classes and constant behind the scenes controversy. Because they have no idea about any of that. Josh Pastner is also performing under less pressure now. He's earned his life fortune. And the Georgia Tech coaching position is nowhere near as comparably close to the Memphis job and the visibility that comes with it.

I am also noticing that the referees in the ACC seem to respect him a little bit more as well. The referees in the American & conference USA had no respect for Josh Pastner. They always saw him as the wet behind the ears new young coach and he was never going to get away from that tag in this conference. Now, however, the ACC Refs see him as an experienced seasoned coach so I have noticed that the referees tend to take him a little more serious in the ACC. Do not underestimate the importance of this. Referees can swing a game 10 to 20 points in either direction very easy with their whistles. We all know this.

That being said, give Josh Pastner his props, he's doing well. Give Tubby Smith his props, he's doing well. Also Josh Pastner is going to get a lot more top 25 wins going forward. He is in the ACC now. Where every week you're playing one if not two top 25 teams. It's inevitable that you will get those wins with more opportunity.

Thanks, we needed another Josh Pastner thread.

(01-29-2017 08:15 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  The book is obviously still out on how much Pastner learned from his mistakes at Memphis. He had some great wins here as well that led to his big contract. But his downfall wasn't just a lack of strategical coaching ability, it was also his inability to actually put together a good long-term coaching staff and program. Eight years in and this program was in complete shambles and the simple fact that Tubby Smith has kept us competitive is a little bit of a miracle considering what he was left with.

Pastner was left with a top 15 program and some very good core players in addition to Elliott Williams coming on board. He was then able to parlay Cal's success and his newness into some top recruiting classes. Those top recruiting classes, though they underperformed, kept him viable. But then the out flux of transfers, The inability to keep a good coaching staff together, horrible out of conference schedules and his constant antagonizing of the Fanbase led to his downfall.

He has had some good wins at Georgia Tech so far. You have to give him credit for that there is no doubt. The first one against North Carolina possibly a little bit of a fluke. Florida State played about as horrible as a team can possibly play against them. The game yesterday was his best performance by far.

He has three gamers on that team and they're very clutch. I will not ultimately judge him on his performance today or Tubby Smith on his performance in Memphis until we are three or four years into this and we see these coaches with their own recruits, through possibly a second cycle of assistant coaches and both Fanbases are restored. Then you can see or be the ultimate judge of which school came out better.

Lost in all of this is the performance of Texas Tech. Of the three schools, the ripple effect of the coaching moves seems to have really helped Texas Tech the most of the three. They got a really great coach. One that Memphis should have probably looked at a whole lot closer.

I will close with this observation that I have made also. I got my first lead management position in business when I was only 24 years old. I was a hard worker, I had empathy for people, and I knew my job very well. However I lacked leadership ability and I was a complete disaster as no one that worked for me had any respect for me at all and I had no idea how to earn their respect. I ultimately quit that job because I was miserable. My very next management position that I received I immediately had more respect. I had learned from my mistakes and I was coming in as an existing manager already. Just having prior management experience made everyone respect and appreciate me that much more.

Why do I say all of this? I have noticed that so far at Georgia Tech the players and the Fanbase respect and appreciate Josh Pastner a whole lot more than we did. They are viewing him as an experienced coach with success already. They are not judging him through the lense underperforming recruiting classes and constant behind the scenes controversy. Because they have no idea about any of that. Josh Pastner is also performing under less pressure now. He's earned his life fortune. And the Georgia Tech coaching position is nowhere near as comparably close to the Memphis job and the visibility that comes with it.

I am also noticing that the referees in the ACC seem to respect him a little bit more as well. The referees in the American & conference USA had no respect for Josh Pastner. They always saw him as the wet behind the ears new young coach and he was never going to get away from that tag in this conference. Now, however, the ACC Refs see him as an experienced seasoned coach so I have noticed that the referees tend to take him a little more serious in the ACC. Do not underestimate the importance of this. Referees can swing a game 10 to 20 points in either direction very easy with their whistles. We all know this.

That being said, give Josh Pastner his props, he's doing well. Give Tubby Smith his props, he's doing well. Also Josh Pastner is going to get a lot more top 25 wins going forward. He is in the ACC now. Where every week you're playing one if not two top 25 teams. It's inevitable that you will get those wins with more opportunity.

You NAILED it! Just because Pastner appears to be doing well at GT, does not mean that we made a mistake in pushing for a change. It really is a COMPLETELY different situation.

It's really way too early to critique anyone at this point. It does seem like Pastner still has this fan base divided.

Anyone that believes Josh Pastner will ever be a decent head coach must have slept through his tenure here. The guy simply doesn't have the ability. It ain't happening.

(01-29-2017 10:57 AM)bluecrew Wrote:  Anyone that believes Josh Pastner will ever be a decent head coach must have slept through his tenure here. The guy simply doesn't have the ability. It ain't happening.

Ouch! Paging Penny Lane! Paging Penny Lane! Bluecrew just threw down on your boy.

For the record I agree with you Bluecrew. Without Lammers he doesn't win those games. Lammers is a premier big man with outstanding skills and great hands. Anyone who has Lammers would win big games. Pastner has Zero to do with the fact that Lammers is playing at GT. The previous coach signed him. And finally it matters not what josh does at GT, it only matters what he did here. And what he did here was miss the NCAA tournament the past two years. Could not finish higher than fourth in the AAC. Had a pathetic record against top 25 (5-25), and lastly, never went to ONE Sweet 16!

(01-29-2017 10:57 AM)bluecrew Wrote:  Anyone that believes Josh Pastner will ever be a decent head coach must have slept through his tenure here. The guy simply doesn't have the ability. It ain't happening.

If the Staff is properly configured the head coach can be the promoter/recruiter/organizer while others handle the majority of the day to day basketball duties.

On ignore and can only say...

Good lord.

Help us.

On ignore just like middle school

We always used Pastner's record against the AP Top 25 (Coaches Poll does not count) as proof he could not beat good teams and was a bad coach.

This year Josh Pastner already has wins over #6 Florida State (by 22 points), #9 North Carolina, # 14 Norte Dame and beat VCU, Tennessee, NC State, Clemson, etc.

Wow, that's impressive. Maybe if he played more ranked teams at Memphis he would have beaten more?

(01-29-2017 08:05 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  We always used Pastner's record against the AP Top 25 (Coaches Poll does not count) as proof he could not beat good teams and was a bad coach.

This year Josh Pastner already has wins over #6 Florida State (by 22 points), #9 North Carolina, # 14 Norte Dame and beat VCU, Tennessee, NC State, Clemson, etc.

Wow, that's impressive. Maybe if he played more ranked teams at Memphis he would have beaten more?

JP did beat a highly ranked Louisville, twice in 2014. He won his fair share of big games. It just went sour with the bad team chemistry in the last two years.

99

We will rue the day !!!!!

Sure, if we had more home games with T25, we would have won more. It's true that the vast majority of those losses were on the road or neutral. And it's just hard to beat a T25 on the road.

Two problems that could not be tolerated. First was missing the NCAA tourney in years 6 and 7. Do you realize we averaged about 1 NCAA tourney WIN every year for the 30 years prior to Josh? And he won 2 in 7 years?

The second were the defections. Staff and players. The staff was a revolving door from day 1. That should have sent off alarm bells, but I missed it. The players transferring just continued to worsen and became the obvious proverbial straw. Especially losing 3 hometown kids over the last 3 years.

I don't care if Josh wins or loses at GT. But if anyone wants to insinuate that we should have kept him, then I will argue against that all day long.

(01-29-2017 09:53 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  We will rue the day !!!!!

Nope we won't

(01-29-2017 08:05 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  We always used Pastner's record against the AP Top 25 (Coaches Poll does not count) as proof he could not beat good teams and was a bad coach.

This year Josh Pastner already has wins over #6 Florida State (by 22 points), #9 North Carolina, # 14 Norte Dame and beat VCU, Tennessee, NC State, Clemson, etc.

Wow, that's impressive. Maybe if he played more ranked teams at Memphis he would have beaten more?

He didn't beat UTenn...UTenn beat 'em by 23

(01-29-2017 08:05 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  We always used Pastner's record against the AP Top 25 (Coaches Poll does not count) as proof he could not beat good teams and was a bad coach.

This year Josh Pastner already has wins over #6 Florida State (by 22 points), #9 North Carolina, # 14 Norte Dame and beat VCU, Tennessee, NC State, Clemson, etc.

Wow, that's impressive. Maybe if he played more ranked teams at Memphis he would have beaten more?

He had at least 25 losses against the top 25 in 7 years here. It may have been more. At any rate, he will never be able to pull to even/500 record against the top 25. Never.

(01-29-2017 10:46 PM)TubbyTime Wrote:  

(01-29-2017 08:05 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  We always used Pastner's record against the AP Top 25 (Coaches Poll does not count) as proof he could not beat good teams and was a bad coach.

This year Josh Pastner already has wins over #6 Florida State (by 22 points), #9 North Carolina, # 14 Norte Dame and beat VCU, Tennessee, NC State, Clemson, etc.

Wow, that's impressive. Maybe if he played more ranked teams at Memphis he would have beaten more?

He had at least 25 losses against the top 25 in 7 years here. It may have been more. At any rate, he will never be able to pull to even/500 record against the top 25. Never.

Eh He will likely have a below .500 record against the top 25 this year. There are only a handful of coaches that have a winning record against the top 25, so asking Josh to break .500 is unrealistic.

(01-29-2017 10:49 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(01-29-2017 10:29 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Sure, if we had more home games with T25, we would have won more. It's true that the vast majority of those losses were on the road or neutral. And it's just hard to beat a T25 on the road.

Two problems that could not be tolerated. First was missing the NCAA tourney in years 6 and 7. Do you realize we averaged about 1 NCAA tourney WIN every year for the 30 years prior to Josh? And he won 2 in 7 years?

The second were the defections. Staff and players. The staff was a revolving door from day 1. That should have sent off alarm bells, but I missed it. The players transferring just continued to worsen and became the obvious proverbial straw. Especially losing 3 hometown kids over the last 3 years.

I don't care if Josh wins or loses at GT. But if anyone wants to insinuate that we should have kept him, then I will argue against that all day long.

I don't think anyone who has a real grasp of coaching and financial situation here with Pastner would argue we should have kept him. I take it one step farther in that you don't give the keys to a Top 15 program to a very young man who spent most of his time under Cal flying and recruiting. THAT MADE NO SENSE.

It's not like we had a lot of options.

Happy for Pastner, hope GT does well and he has learned some things. Like the OP, I made some bad mistakes in my first management job, I did much better the second time around. While you are in the midst of that first job though, it's really hard to correct the things you've been doing wrong. Much easier when you get a reset.

(01-29-2017 11:10 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(01-29-2017 10:54 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-29-2017 10:49 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(01-29-2017 10:29 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Sure, if we had more home games with T25, we would have won more. It's true that the vast majority of those losses were on the road or neutral. And it's just hard to beat a T25 on the road.

Two problems that could not be tolerated. First was missing the NCAA tourney in years 6 and 7. Do you realize we averaged about 1 NCAA tourney WIN every year for the 30 years prior to Josh? And he won 2 in 7 years?

The second were the defections. Staff and players. The staff was a revolving door from day 1. That should have sent off alarm bells, but I missed it. The players transferring just continued to worsen and became the obvious proverbial straw. Especially losing 3 hometown kids over the last 3 years.

I don't care if Josh wins or loses at GT. But if anyone wants to insinuate that we should have kept him, then I will argue against that all day long.

I don't think anyone who has a real grasp of coaching and financial situation here with Pastner would argue we should have kept him. I take it one step farther in that you don't give the keys to a Top 15 program to a very young man who spent most of his time under Cal flying and recruiting. THAT MADE NO SENSE.

It's not like we had a lot of options.

Happy for Pastner, hope GT does well and he has learned some things. Like the OP, I made some bad mistakes in my first management job, I did much better the second time around. While you are in the midst of that first job though, it's really hard to correct the things you've been doing wrong. Much easier when you get a reset.

Bet you weren't hired at one of the TOP JOBS in your field. With a little patience, we could have hired a good, experienced coach. Might not have been the name hire we all wanted but if he won, that would be forgotten very quickly.

We've been through this countless times. No one wanted the job, not only did you have to follow Cal, there was the DRose stigma, the whole conference realignment thing. Again, no established coach wanted the job.

Maybe it was incompetence from the leadership at that time, I dunno, but we were not going to hit a home run with that hire. RC decided to hire a minor league slugger and hope he could translate it to the bigs. It didn't quite work out, although for a while it was looking good. Eventually the other team's pitching figured him out though and he started to look like the minor leaguer that he was.

That's not to say he couldn't learn to hit a major league curveball, maybe he has at GT.